Welcome And Scripture Anchor

Chris Grainger 0:53

Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders. God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, this week we're going to do a little something different, but before we get to the topic, the scripture of the week is 1 Corinthians 10 23. It says all things are permitted, but not all things are benefit. All things are permitted, but not all things build people up. So, guys, that's scripture. We've been focusing all week. Go listen to the spiritual kickoff podcast. I'll unpack that at length. Listen to our last episode with our guests. And then guys, subscribe. Like it, share it, all that fun stuff. And if you like this the SKO podcast, we do it Monday through Friday at The Lion. It's completely free. You have no reason not to join it, boys. What are you waiting on? The LionWithin.us, sign up for the daily SKO. If you're in the continental U.S., we'll send you a gift as well. And you have access to our prayer request space. We pray every Monday and we monitor it 24-7 and we'd love to pray with you. So that's enough of all that stuff, guys. Housekeeping is

Why So Many Marriages Are Struggling

Chris Grainger 1:50

done. So here's the deal. I'm not even sure we're going to call these things yet. Maybe ask a marriage coach, uh, maybe committed and occasionally confused. I'm not sure. We're I'm but we we the the problem that we're seeing that I'm seeing at the lion, and I'm getting ready to introduce you guys to Jay. He's seeing an uncovering intimacy, is marriage isn't just under attack. Guys are coming to us in groves, and they're just looking for help. They're looking for support. And I said, you know what? I'm not the expert here, but I know who he is because I he's helped me and my marriage to Rebecca for quite a quite a while now in tremendous ways. And he runs our couples night once enough once a month at the Lion. I was like, you know what? I wonder if Jay would come in. So I asked him, he was like, Yeah, let's do it, bro. So so Jay, man, I'm excited to have you here. I'm I know this is gonna help a lot of guys. And first of all, man, how are you doing today?

Jay Dee 2:44

I'm doing good. I'm excited to be here. Every time I do something with the lion within us, it's always awesome. Right? It is it we we try to have fun with it, you know? Yeah. I always have a blast. Our couples' nights, man. If people aren't coming to those, they should be because we have a riot.

Chris Grainger 2:59

Yeah, they're just they're they're missing out. And that's and usually when guys are they're coming to me and they're they're and I'm pointing I'm pointing them to you pretty quickly now. That's just my default. Have you talked to Jay yet? Have you talked to Jay yet? You know, it is. Yeah, I mean, because I just I know the stuff you put together. And for from a firsthand experience standpoint, I mean, my wife and I, we meet with you once a month, and we still have those months where it's they're a little bit more challenging conversations, but we're having a lot more months now where it's just a fun call, and we're and you're helping us see some areas that we've grown together, and and I can I can tell you it wouldn't be possible if we didn't take that time and and you took the time to meet with us, man.

Jay Dee 3:43

That's what I love to do. I love being with couples. I love seeing them turn the marriage around, you know. I've seen them grow, learning new things, realizing that, oh yeah, we do love each other after all, you know. That's just it's amazing.

Chris Grainger 3:56

It's the best, man. It really is. And you know, so we got in the lion, we had this husband support group, which our buddy Adam, his wife, which you know his wife Danielle, she comes to couples night, and uh, she she named it. So it's called Committed and Occasionally Confused, and I think it's the greatest name of all time for a husband support group. Yeah, that's perfect. So so good. But now, so now we got all these guys that are joining and they're hopping into Lion and which is great. God's blessing it. And that group, you know, guys are posting in there, or they're posting in the pre-request space, probably more in the prayer request space, but it's tied to the same group of just marriages are failing, the wife is leaving, uh, you know, there's kids involved, there's separation, there's pornography usage, there's no intimacy. You know, we see it. I mean, literally, it's like day in and day out uh of guys that are just struggling with their marriages. And man, I just uh I feel like it's time to step in and do something about it, you know, or at least try at least try from as much as we can being podcasters, right? Yeah.

Jay Dee 5:00

No, definitely. I mean, there's lots and lots to do out there. Um and my goal, like I tell all my marriage coaching clients this though my goal is not to be your coach for the rest of your life. My goal is to get you out there so that you can start helping other people too. That doesn't mean you have to do marriage coaching, but you know, strong marriages promote other strong marriages. Right. And that's my goal. If I can touch one couple, they'll go out and touch another dozen couples. Right. You know, and then when they get stuck, that's fine, they can pass them on to me. But we we need more strong marriages in our church because yeah, there's there's plenty of work to be done.

Chris Grainger 5:33

It is, man. And too often, man, I'm sure I I'm not sure what your denomination, but I mean, across many you see out there, you know, the the ladies come and usually they're bringing kids with them, and then quite often the guys the guy's not with them. And you know the stats on if a if a husband's going to church, the the wife is, you know, that it's just it's just exponential. The the rest of the family will become believers versus the other way around, you know. So I just think there's such an opportunity, but man, where where do we even start with some of this, right? It's it's it's been kind of the crux of what we're trying to work through. Yeah.

Jay Dee 6:10

I mean, like uh our society doesn't like to say men are leaders, but uh it's true. They will either lead you to Christ or lead you away from Christ. Right. Either way, they're gonna lead. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 6:21

And I'll tell you, you look what's going on in the world, man. Like we just at the time of this recording, we just had that big case in the US with the uh the the lady, I'm not gonna say her name, but the one who killed her kids, and you know, all these women are coming up against it, and my wife is sitting there like, what is wrong with these people? And it's just I'm just like, look, the the evil one is attacking marriages. Obviously, it attacked this girl, and and it's just the the results are detrimental there in that case. But the fact is that so many people just get confused on what the covenant of marriage stands for to start with. Why, you know, the just the biblical definition, you know, that if we're arguing about that, we're gonna have a hard place to come together on how to help you with, right? Yeah.

Jay Dee 7:07

I mean, I I would say part of that is a problem that we have in our churches. Like, how many churches do you know that are actually doing something for marriage marriages or for premarital counseling? Like often it's you know, one-offs kind of thing. But they're more or less just doing uh, oh, okay, are you guys stable or not? If you're stable, all right, well, you'll figure it out. Right. And then they they marry them and go, oh, I guess our work is done.

Chris Grainger 7:34

Isn't that the same thing that happens though with uh with with trying to get new believers? Like we just really we're just trying to get them to the Baptist, you know, get them dunked, and then you're on your own. Good luck, buddy.

Jay Dee 7:46

We think that we think they're done then. Oh, you're baptized, you'll be fine.

Chris Grainger 7:51

Right. You're literally a baby. I mean, yeah. It's crazy. I mean, that's one reason that I came to you probably what, four or five months ago now, because it was my first wedding. I got asked to do a wedding, and I was like, man, I want to get I anybody can give them a blender. Like, I want to give this couple something that they can that I know they're gonna need over the first year. So we worked out where they're doing a monthly call with you because I I I don't know what's gonna come their way for the first year of marriage, but I know one thing, the evil one is, period. He's gonna come after it. So, what can I can I provide them to help them in that first year of marriage? And to me, that just made the most sense. Because I'm just like you, I'm I'm with you, man. Like you go to premarital count counseling at a church, and then it's just like maybe they give you a book, you know. If you get if you're lucky, you get two meetings with a pastor, and then you're like, okay, you're good to go. Like, what in the wild world of sports are you talking about? Like, no, that's that they're not okay right now.

Jay Dee 8:48

Yeah. Uh I mean that newly thing was a brilliant idea. I love it. And I had a lot of fun putting it together. And what we did is the yeah, the once a month kind of check and see how things are going, but also every week they get a lesson of everything I wish I could teach a couple before they got into trouble. Right. And they they're burning through those and they love them. Yeah. So much so that we get to our calls and they're kind of like, you know, actually, we learned a ton, and we talk more about what they learned than problems that they have because they're already solving their own problems. It's it's incredible.

Chris Grainger 9:19

So proactive, man. So good. I'm curious from you with your groups for for your community and the things you're doing at uncovering intimacy, which by the way, guys, if you ain't listening to it and following

When Parenting Replaces Partnership

Chris Grainger 9:30

his stuff, like just ball your fist up and hit yourself in the face. Like, what are you waiting on, man? Like, jump on that. But but like for uh I'm seeing I'm talking to more and more guys every day now, Jay, and I'm seeing the uh is it called gray marriage? I'm trying to think what it's exactly called. Like when the kids get out of school, get out of you know the house, and it's a kind of empty house, and then all of a sudden these these couples are splitting up at that moment. And it's like, what are you doing? You put in the hard work. Like now's the time to enjoy it. And it's like, well, we'll you know, we're we don't know each other. And I don't know if you're seeing, you know, how many people coming to you with that type of scenario, but man, it's been really bothering me lately.

Jay Dee 10:11

Yeah, you know, I just uh scheduled something to post on social media today because I just had the thought of you know, you were you were spouses before you were parents, so act like it. And too many times the kids come by and they they change gears. Oh, I'm not a spouse anymore, I'm a parent. That's my primary role now. Right. And they become basically a business focused on raising kids. You know, that's that's the thing they care about the most. They will sacrifice the rest of their relationship for the kids. Right. And, you know, so all of their talks become logistical things. What's going on on the calendar, who has to drive where? What money do we need to spend for what kid? Uh where are they going, who are they going with? Everything is about the kids. They don't talk about themselves anymore, they don't spend time together anymore. They don't yeah, they don't discuss anything other than calendars of money. Yeah. And they basically become, you know, people say roommates, but it's more like business partners. Right in the business of raising kids. Yeah. Yeah. And then the kids grow up and leave and they look at each other and go, Who are you again? You know? Because they they've spent now 20 years ignoring each other. Sometimes longer, 30 years, depending on how many kids you are and how many how spread out they are. And I'd say probably about half of the couples, uh, maybe a third of the couples I work with, they're kind of going into that stage of, hey, the kids are starting to get old, older, they're starting to not need us as much. They're not around all the time. We don't spend time together anymore. Right. You know, he goes off to his room, she goes off to her room. Uh, you know, not separate bedrooms all the time, sometimes. You know, and they just do their own thing because they aren't really used to spending time together anymore.

Chris Grainger 11:59

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it it breaks my heart. I mean, I got a I got a friend, I've been praying for him and work and talking with him for the last two years. And him and his wife, man, sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy for years. I mean, they have like a kid that's less than ten, there's some other kids that are that a little bit older, and uh, he didn't know what to do. And I and I'm trying to encourage him in some areas someone talk to you. I'm trying to get him to go that route. And uh sometimes these guys are just they feel like there's no hope, you know, and they just, you know, what's the point? Like she's stuck in her ways, I'm stuck in my ways. So I'm just like, brother, you know, it's not this is not God's design. He and he's a strong believer. I just can't get him out of that stinking thinking, you know, of just like I just I can't fix this. And it just, I don't know, it just breaks my heart.

Jay Dee 12:53

Yeah, the problem is it's usually not bad enough. You know, they're willing to put up with it because usually kind of, oh, well, they're they're a good mother or a good father, and they provide, or they're good at keeping the house, or whatever it is, like the benefits they see in their marriage or in their life are positive. It's just missing a marriage, you know? Yeah. Uh I sometimes call them zombie marriages because uh, you know, according to everybody else, they're still walking around looking like they're alive, but the thing's dead.

Chris Grainger 13:22

Yeah. Zombie marriage. That's pretty good, man. Man, it's a shame though. It really is. I mean, and it's

Zombie Marriages And Lost Hope

Chris Grainger 13:30

I mean, some of the things I know getting started when Becca and I started coming to you, one of the biggest things that opened my eyes was you just you helped me understand. And it's it sounds silly to even say this, but maybe this will help a guy out there today. Our spouses are different than us. You know, just that fundament simple little fundamental truth really was eye-opening for me because we found out through discovery from some stuff working with you that my wife has ADHD. And I didn't know that. I mean, I've been married to her for years, but that really helped me to understand how to, okay, how do I need to respond? How is she receiving information I'm giving her? And then what's the disconnect between what I'm thinking and what she's thinking? So I mean, I don't know if that's how you normally start with people. I just know that was really helpful for us.

Jay Dee 14:22

I think there's uh there's kind of like two pieces of things that I bring. Uh number one, I have a ton of knowledge about how brains work and how you know uh how we do things, why we move through the worlds that we are. Like everybody is a logical person in their own head. Right. You know, trying to figure out how to make everybody else see that is the challenging part. Right. Because we usually see our spouses do something and we think that they're crazy because they didn't do it the way we that we would do it. Uh you know, our friend Adam reminded me that I wrote a post a long time ago where I called those reality tunnels. We're stuck in our tunnel of reality and we think everybody else is in the same tunnel. And they're off on their own tunnels and their own realities because we build our reality based on our perceptions and our beliefs and our context and everything. And so I I bring a lot of knowledge from researching on this for a decade and a half now. Um, but probably the other half is common sense things that are not so common. Like, yeah, your spouse is different than you, they think differently than you. Men and women are different. You know, uh, yeah, if they have ADHD and I am not a doctor, I'm not a licensed therapist, I am not allowed to diagnose anybody, but I have definitely helped point people towards diagnosis a lot. ADHD, autism, uh OCD, uh across the board, like I can start point them out pretty quick and start asking questions and start diet, not diagnosing, but asking them questions that they, hey, maybe you want to talk to your doctor about this. And I got a pretty good track record that they come back and go, yeah, it turns out you were right, you know. Because you see the same kind of patterns all the time. And while not everyone with ADHD is exactly the same, they do tend to bucket into you know certain categories of like, hey, maybe you're struggling with this, and maybe you feel this way, and maybe your brain works this way. And you know, I'd say, again, probably like a third to a half of the couples I deal with, one of them is dealing with something that's not neurotypical, you know, not the normal, just average default human. They've got something, you know, what some people say call neurospicy going on. You know, there they got something extra. And and it's not a bad thing. You know, these things usually all have their strengths and their weaknesses, and you try to find trying to teach people to mitigate the weaknesses and leverage the strengths is fun because all of a sudden all the things that caused conflicts before now they can see as like, oh, how do we use this as a team for positive? Right.

Chris Grainger 16:57

Right. I even thought it was interesting because I've heard you say it so many times now, and it's helped me when this happens. But like you've mentioned when you and Christina have a discussion. Well, I I'm not even gonna say a fight. There, there's there's some tension. You look forward to that because you see it as opportunities to learn about your spouse. That just blew my mind the first time I heard it, because I'm just like, that ain't how I see it, buddy. You know, but but I mean, have having that reframe now, it's like, oh, okay, Becca and I are not on the same page. What really is going on here? Is there not because it's an opportunity for us to grow closer in intimacy. And I will tell you one thing, man, you guys that are listening and struggle with porn or or different types of lust and temptation, when you get your your marriage right, and I I 100% will attest to this, when it's right and the intimacy, intimacy is is where you're working on it, she's working on it, the rest of that stuff, it's just gonna fade away, man. Because you're just gonna be pursuing her. And I I I can't help but think that that if we get if we get those the core items right, man, I think that's why God blesses us the covenant of marriage when we do it his way. You know, and that's so that's just I don't know, man. Hopefully that'd be encouraging for somebody out there.

Jay Dee 18:12

Yeah, I I think when I was at your stage of marriage, because I mean, no offense, but you're still a baby marriage. Like it hasn't been that long nine years. Yeah, uh, I definitely didn't see conflict that way either. I thought the same way you did when I first mentioned it. Like, uh, that's not no, that's not a positive thing. That's something we're gonna run away from. Um, but as we started turning our marriage around, because ours was rough at the beginning, too, that's why I started doing this. You know, now we're we've been together 30 years, I think total. Getting up on close to yeah, next year, that'll be 30 years since we started dating. And after 30 years, it becomes hard to learn new things about each other.

Chris Grainger 18:52

Yeah.

Jay Dee 18:54

And so conflicts are where I get to learn something new. A conflict means, oh, I I stepped on something I wasn't aware of yet.

Chris Grainger 19:01

Right. Right.

Jay Dee 19:03

So yeah, those are opportunities. That's it. And I I said that once in a um a marriage builder night, another another group I lead, and my wife turned and looked at me and went, is that really how you think? I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Like, those are exciting. I get to learn something. She's like, huh. So sometimes I get thoughts and I I teach them to my clients, and I forgot to talk to my wife about them, too. So she she gets to learn in my marriage builder nights as well.

Chris Grainger 19:28

I'll tell you, man, it's just important,

Neurodiversity And Reality Tunnels

Chris Grainger 19:30

guys. I mean, and you know, I think my hope in doing this and for Jay and I working together on these on these episodes, then it's gonna be encouraging to the guys. And I don't know, Jay, if you have any thoughts on do we want to try to start soliciting soliciting questions from guys and topics, or do you think we just need to be feeding them some stuff on a regular basis? I I'd love to get your thoughts on how do you think we can best help these marriages out here, man?

Jay Dee 19:56

I think we could probably do a mix. You know, I have for years been taking anonymous questions on my site, and I have answered literally anything and everything that comes in. And a lot of times uh my community, because I post these questions immediately, is when they come in, I post them in my forum, uh, which you're also in, you know, and sometimes the answer that I get from my uh kind of group of supporters is I can't believe this is a question. How do they not know that this isn't okay? And the truth is they don't. Right. The amount of questions that I get that I think a lot of people in churches would go, oh, that's clearly over the line, or that's clearly not okay, or yeah, that's okay. Why are you that even a question? You know, yeah, nobody's talking about this stuff anymore. Right. You know, and we used to, like we have regressed. And as much as people kind of blame the Puritans for like being well puritanical and trying to shut down sex, they weren't. They were heavily promoters of sex within marriage. They're pretty much almost everything is above board as long as you're married. If you aren't married, you're gonna have a problem. Right. You know, and we're gonna come after you because you shouldn't be doing that. Uh but if you are married and you're not doing anything, they would also come after you. You could be civilly sued during the Puritan era for not having sex in your marriage. You know, and people forget about that.

Chris Grainger 21:13

Bring that lol back, buddy.

Jay Dee 21:17

And we should. Like a lot of times I get people who email me in those marriages where you know it's a zombie marriage, they stopped having sex. And they've tried talking about it, and one of them won't budge. And the the next step is, well, I think I might just get divorced because what else am I gonna do? Right. I say, well, if you're gonna go that far, why not make it public? You know, go to your church, ask for prayer, ask your friends, ask your family, say, hey, this is what's going on. We're struggling in our marriage. We need prayer. If you're gonna get divorced anyways, it's gonna go public anyways. You know, people are gonna ask, oh, what happened? And then what? Are are you gonna lie to them and tell them it was something else, or are you gonna tell them the truth and warn them, hey, careful of this. If this stops in your marriage, you might end up in divorce too. I'd much rather people go public and say, you know, let's hold each other accountable. If your marriage isn't good, let's help each other. Not shame and like the Puritans maybe went a little bit too far in pulling them up and on a stage and saying, okay, now tell us why you're not having sex with your spouse. Uh but there's definitely room for us to hold each other accountable.

Chris Grainger 22:26

We'd get a lot of clicks on Instagram if we did that though.

Jay Dee 22:29

You know? Absolutely. Uh that person would probably leave the church too. Right.

Chris Grainger 22:37

Well, it does amaze me though, like how many how much stuff just gets swept under a rug, and then we don't talk about it. And then like when we do talk about it and we get and we get confronted with truth, most people run from that now. I mean, I just just literally Last week I had a guy. He was in a call with me, introduction call. He's like, Yeah, man. He was telling me about his life. He's like, I just got this one thing. I'm like, okay, what is it? It's like, well, I'm engaged. I'm like, well, that's awesome, brother. Like, when are you getting married? He's like, next year we're getting married. I'm like, cool. Uh we're not having sex. I'm like, okay, even better. Like you're saving yourself. You're waiting until you get married. Wonderful. So he's like, yeah, but we live together. Stopped. Say what now? And he was like, yeah, we live together. I'm like, so let me clarify this. You're you're you're engaged to be married in a year from now. He's like, yep. And you're living together. He's like, is anybody else living with you? He's like, nope, just me and her. I'm like, sleeping in different bedrooms? Nope, same bed. I'm like, there's no way he's like, it's more like just a roommate agreement. I'm like, that's what your marriage is gonna be. Like you are setting yourself up for a disaster. And I said, I'm gonna tell you one thing, brother. I don't know what you're made of, but there is no way on the planet I could have lived in the same room with Rebecca before we were married and not had sex. Like it's just impossible. Like, I'm a pretty good sales guy. Like, them things, it would have happened, you know. So I'm like, what you're you're setting yourself. And he didn't like the conversation. He got pretty frustrated with it. But I'm like, you need some brothers in Christ that are willing to tell you these things like now. And so anyway, I don't know, man. I just feel like some of these guys, hopefully, the ones that are listening, if we're speaking to them, they're gonna they're gonna take in and do something with it, is the reason I'm kind of bringing that up because we're not gonna tell you guys out there listening stuff that's not in God's word. But at the same time, like if it if you're getting frustrated or mad at me and Jay, it's probably the Holy Spirit convicting you. I'm not gonna say 100% of that.

Jay Dee 24:31

Definitely don't say it's 100%.

Chris Grainger 24:33

Yeah, it's not 100%. It may just be we are being dicks that day, I don't know. But it could just be the spirit's convicting you because you're you're habitually walking in something you know you shouldn't be doing, man. You know?

Jay Dee 24:44

Yeah, and like situations like that, just go get married. Exactly. You're already living together, you're already sleeping together, even if you're not having sex together. Yeah, you've already got probably combined, like a combined, you have a combined household at that point. You're sharing your lives together. You're what you're missing is a walk down to a pastor and say, Hey, could you marry us quick? You know, we'll have a big ceremony later. Right. That's how I said you're training.

Chris Grainger 25:09

I said you're training your marriage to where no sex is okay, too. I was like, and I don't know if I'd want to be that. I mean, that I'm I'm not saying that once you get get married that you know it won't happen, but if you've gone this long and this is what she's used to, she's used to going to bed with no intimacy. And I mean, I I don't know, bud. So anyway, it was a weird one. You get you get some of those as well. And I'm hopeful that we can, I don't know, start spreading some truth across these marriages and help them along the way.

Jay Dee 25:39

I think it also sends confusion into our kind of communities of Christians as well. Like people see this and go, oh, well, there must be something going on. The assumption is there, you know, right or wrong. And it we are supposed to be to look above reproach, you know. We can't control everything that everyone sees, but we shouldn't make it look like a bad situation. Right. You know, if we have to if we have to talk to them to defend ourselves on what we were doing, then we probably shouldn't have been doing that. That's right, man. That's right. Yeah, we're gonna confuse all the baby Christians out there who maybe aren't gonna ask and aren't gonna challenge you, even though they should. Because if I see that in my rage, I'm definitely gonna walk up to that guy and go, what are you doing? Yeah. Like Exactly. But then I mean and then we get like I just saw uh a new Instagram account in the last couple weeks of a couple that they're not married, they're divorced, they are sleeping together, and they think that's perfectly fine because the Holy Spirit told them to. Uh-huh. You know, and I'm like, yeah, we have so much confusion in our marriages because people are doing things they shouldn't be doing. Nobody's challenging them on it, and everyone's just going, yeah, go ahead. You know, why not?

Chris Grainger 26:49

What does it mean? Right. Right. The standards are going away, guys. And I think that's what Jay and I are trying to bring to helpfully bring us back to. And the standard he and I teach is right out of God's word. I mean, you know, we're not gonna bring up what we think. We really it's all goes back to the Bible, so I don't know, Jay. I think this is gonna be helpful. I'm looking forward to them for sure. Yeah.

Truth, Accountability, And Hard Conversations

Jay Dee 27:11

Anyways, back to your question though, about these marriages that uh end once the kids leave. You know, too many of them, yeah, they stay together for the kids. And what they fail to take into account is if your kids grow up in a miserable marriage, like with your pr their parents having a miserable marriage, they are more likely to have a miserable marriage themselves.

Chris Grainger 27:35

Yeah.

Jay Dee 27:36

If you divorce, your kids are more likely to divorce. So the only good solution is stop staying together for the kids, or if you are gonna stay together for the kids, you better make it a good marriage for the kids. That's right. Because that's that's the only positive outcome that comes from this thing. That's right. Show them how to have a good marriage, show them how to turn around a marriage that's not doing well. Show them how to recover from conflicts. You know, if you fight in front of your kids, you better be making up in front of your kids. Right. If you're never fighting in front of your kids, your kids are never gonna learn how to resolve conflict.

Chris Grainger 28:16

That's true.

Jay Dee 28:17

If you wait till it's so big to blow up that you don't want to have this fight in front of anybody else, then you've waited too long. Like most of our conflicts we could we can manage them in the moment and they're small. Hey, why'd you do that? That doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain what you were thinking? Because I'm not getting it. It doesn't have to be a big fight. But we tend to jump to the what the hell's wrong with you? Why would you do that? That's right.

Chris Grainger 28:45

That's right. What were you thinking? So yeah. Yeah. That's a terrible question. There's no good way to answer that.

Jay Dee 28:56

It's right up there with uh well, are you an idiot or are you stupid or what? Yeah. What on earth was on your mind? Uh but being curious about each other then brings out different things, you know. Hey, I I want to know why you load the dishwasher that way. Because I think if we load it this way, they get cleaner. Yeah, I'm curious if you think it differently. But too too often, like, we get these stupid things like a fight about a dishwasher, and it becomes a moral issue because we've decided that, like, oh, this is the right way to load a dishwasher. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 29:29

Yeah.

Jay Dee 29:29

And if you don't, then uh, you are sinning and going to hell. You know, and we're gonna I'm gonna divorce you over this thing.

Chris Grainger 29:38

That's right. Or the toilet paper roll, you know, important stuff, man.

Jay Dee 29:42

Toilet paper roll, uh, the way we parent our kids, that one's a little dice here because people definitely believe there is a right way and a wrong way, and there are definitely wrong ways to do it. But most of the time we just have different roles, and our kids need both of them. They need a parent that they feel safe to to come foo for couple cuddles. They also need a parent who's going to smack them upside the head, physically or mentally, or emotionally, whatever that is. Uh, you know, they need to be challenged. They need a parent that will hold the line even when they're butthurt about it.

Chris Grainger 30:13

That's right. And they need both of those. And that's usually not going to be the same person. Right. That's right. That's probably when done correctly, man. We can it can be such a good compliment to each other. And again, it goes back to God's design. You know. So man, well, Jay, what do you think

Staying Together For Kids Done Right

Chris Grainger 30:35

about parking this one right here today? You feeling good about where we left it? Anything else you want to unpack? I could talk for another 10 hours if we kept going, man.

Jay Dee 30:44

But yeah, that's good for today.

Chris Grainger 30:46

Well, look, if guys want to uh so if you if you want to send us questions for the lion, just send it to support at the lionwithan.us guys, send that email there. Where could they submit them to you, Jay? Where like if you want if they wanted to for topics for us to discuss.

Jay Dee 31:03

If you go to my website, uncoveringhmsc.com, if you are too scared to send an email and you don't want it traced to you whatsoever, um, you can go to my website, yeah, uncoveringhmc.com. Right in the top menu, there's a have a question page. You can submit it anonymously. We will not be able to ask you questions, clarifying questions. We can't ask for more context, so put everything you want us to know in there because it's anonymous. I have no way to figure out who it is, where it came from, or how to get back to you. And you're gonna have to listen to a podcast to get your answer.

Chris Grainger 31:36

There you go. And maybe we'll we'll take a couple of those questions, questions each month, and hopefully we'll get some from the lion as well. I know lots of the guys have questions and topics, and we'll just uh we'll we'll see how we can serve and help and encourage you guys along the way.

Jay Dee 31:51

So yeah, if you do use my page, tell me which podcast you heard it on so that I know which one to answer it on.

Chris Grainger 31:58

There you go. There you go. And other than that, guys, I mean, couples night, it's always the what is it, second Tuesday every month, eight o'clock Eastern at night. Jay runs that for us at the Lion, and usually me and Becca are there to we have lots of couples that come. So to to get to that, you know, you have to be in our lions then at the lion within us, and then you have to be what a certain level contributor for your group, right? Yeah, uh, it's just five bucks a month on mine. Five bucks a month. Okay. But yeah. So yeah, so support Jay. I mean, guys, if you're not doing that right now as well, go support him, what he's got going on there at uncovering intimacy.com for that. But this was fun, brother. I really enjoyed it. Me

Questions, Couples Night, And Next Steps

Chris Grainger 32:41

too. Well, look, before we go, um, our book of the week is rule your tech guys, talking about the tech our devices. And I got two dad jokes I'm gonna run by run by Jay. He's a he's a a a dad, a five times dad. So uh he he he definitely qualifies for these.

Jay Dee 32:58

So um I'll try, but usually my what method is to read them to Christina, and whichever one makes our eyes roll the most, that's the winner. That's how you go. That's how I go.

Chris Grainger 33:07

Every week I I come up with your bring yours up and read them to her. Yeah. All right, all right. Well, so we're gonna have to just go off Jay's judgment without Christina on this one. So all right, so what do you call a potato wearing glasses? A potato that wears glasses. No idea. Spectator. Nice. Nice, right? There you go. All right. So uh what do you get for coming in second in an astronomy contest? I feel like I should know this one. All right, give it to me. A constellation prize. I like the first one better. You like the first one better. Okay. So Doug sent those to me. So, Doug, thank you again for those, brother. Yeah, that sounds like Doug.

Jay Dee 33:55

Yeah, yeah.

Chris Grainger 33:56

I mean, so Doug, I mean, great, we probably just need to do a week and just talk about some things that that he shared. See, he's he's none of the member spotlight as well. But I mean, his marriage was save, you know. A lot of he credits a lot of what the lion and you and and saving his marriage, man. But uh, Doug, thank you for these jokes, brother. And uh our question of a week is how are your daily tech habits building up your spiritual life, fellas? So just think about that. How's that device impacting you? Or

Tech Habits And Better Date Talks

Chris Grainger 34:22

what are your kids seeing? How is it affecting from what Jay and I are talking about? How's it affecting your relationship with your wife? I uh unfortunately, I go when me and Becca go out to date night and we do it once a month regularly, and so if we can get it more than once a month, we're gonna do it. But it's amazing to me how many people will be sitting at a restaurant, a great opportunity to have conversation, and we're just staring at a screen glowing in our faces. I'm like, put the thing down, bro. Like, let's talk to the one at the table. So, anyway, that's what we've been talking about this week on the podcast. But anything else you got today, bud?

Jay Dee 34:55

I was just gonna say, you know, a lot of people struggle with that because they go out to dinner and then they put their phones down and they don't know what to talk about anymore. Right. And so I I I built a whole tool uh for hey, here's conversation starters, and it's just a whole list of questions you can ask each other because that comes up so often in coaching. I tell them, hey, put your phones away, and they're like, Well, what are we gonna talk about? Here you go, here's a massive list. Go for that.

Chris Grainger 35:20

That's awesome, man. I hadn't seen that one. I'm gonna have to go get that download. Uh between that, I'll tell so good. We'll try to put a link for that for you guys. And then the um the sexploration list, and we're not gonna talk about that one today, but we'll that's a whole other topic. Oh, yeah, buddy. I'm gonna tell you what, bud, it is worth the time. So, anyway, that's a good cliffhanger, boys. If that doesn't make you go to uncoveringintimacy.com right now, I don't know what will. Jay, man, this has been awesome, bro. Thank you for coming on. Well, thanks for having me. Looking forward to these in the future. So, fellas, give us a rating review. Go check out Jay's podcast as well. Again, you can search Uncovering Intimacy. That's his the name of the show as well. And then his website, all the cool stuff. We'll be trying to do these once a month, guys. So that's uh we'll try to get these on a regular cadence and uh hopefully you'll be encouraged by it. So share it out there with others if we can help, if Jay can help you and your marriage, book a discovery coaching call with him and then hop into the lion and uh join the husband support group. Other than that, fellas, have a great day. Get after it. We'll see you next time and keep on leashing the lion within.

Community Invitation And Closing

Chris Grainger 36:28

Trying to find genuine resources to help grow spiritually can feel overwhelming. At least it was for me. For the longest time, the support that I was looking for didn't exist. And I knew I wasn't alone. And at the same time, God was leading me to take action. That's why we built the Lion Within Us community, which is simply a place for Christian men to grow together in an honest, practical way that's always rooted in God's word. We've made it simple. We have our daily spiritual kickoff for that little boost to get you going. We have Bible studies focusing on discerning truth and applying it. And we have a private forum where you can speak freely amongst other guys who listen. And then we have things like Friday Forge, Couples Night, where we gotta tackle the hard items that guys are craving to talk about. But most face settings just refuse to explore these areas. So our community is about a growth mindset, intentionality, and transparency. Simply put, leave the mask at the door and come as you are. No perfect resume, just a willing heart and a desire to lead. I believe in what we've built simply because I've seen God use it to strengthen so many men. And I'd be honored to walk alongside you. So if you're ready, visit the lionwithin.us to explore the community. Start your free trial. Look around and see how this could help you lead with clarity and courage. So your journey begins here at the lionwithin.us. I look forward to seeing you inside the den.