Scripture And Community Updates

Chris Grainger 1:05

Welcome to the Lamb Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders, God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, meet episode time. Let's get into it. Okay. So the scripture of the week this week is 1 Corinthians 10th chapter, 23rd verse. It says, All things are permitted, but not all things are our benefit. All things are permitted, but not all things build people up. So, guys, that verse right there, so powerful, so important for us to remember as Christian men. So go back, listen to the spiritual kickoff podcast. It's going to be our last one in your podcast feed, where I try to break down this verse to help you simplify and apply it to your life as a Christian man. So hopefully you're encouraged, you'll be encouraged by that. And then if reminder for you fellas, the daily spiritual kickoff, Monday through Friday. I mean, I'm working through the Gospel of John right now as I'm trying to walk with these guys through this. So every day, read God's word, try to encourage you from God's word. That's a live video. If you can't make the video, the videos will always post it right there for you to consume at your leisure. If you're in the Continental U.S., we have a free gift we'd love to send you. So we can send you that. We also have a prayer request space that is a very, very, very active space, guys. Guys use that all the time. And then every Monday we have a prayer meeting. If we would invite you to come to the prayer meeting and just let us pray over you, okay? We want to be super intentional about that at the lion. So all that can be found at thelionwithin.us. Okay?

Why Tech Can Start Ruling Us

Chris Grainger 2:32

All right, guys. Now that is out the way, our guest is going to be awesome. You're going to really enjoy this conversation. It's it's Jed Metafing. He teaches and writes on a spiritual formation, leadership, technology. Uh, and he really introduced this whole idea of a tech rule in a 2016 Washington Post article. So Jed wrote this book called Rule Your Tech So It Won't Rule Rule You. And we talked about some practical things here with this one, guys. We talked about directly, you know, how the social media and technology and screen time and all that has impacted us, and not just us, but the people that we love in such a very, very direct way, starting from when the first the first smartphones came out. So we're talking less than two decades, but has completely transformed the landscape of how we live our life. I mean, just think about this. You're listening to this podcast right now, most likely on a smart device. And that's great. We want you to listen to the line within us, right? You know, like, review, all that fun and fun stuff too, by the way, guys. But sometimes the technology can rule us. This is where Jed took some time to to really explore, to unpack, and to try to help us as Christian men figure out, okay, what do we do with this? So we he's gonna start off with a lot of bad news, just what we're the state of reality of where things are right now. But then we transition. We transition to some good news. So I encourage you stay listen to the whole podcast. You know, listen to the whole podcast because that's where we're gonna give you some tools, some things to consider, and some practical ways to really start turning, you know, turning the ship and gaining back control and and and and insight and meaning to how this technology impacts you directly. So, guys, I hope you enjoy this one. I mean, Jed, he's got five children. He lives in Falls Church, Virginia. He's married to his wonderful wife, Rachel. So I just really enjoyed this one with him. So sit back and enjoy this conversation with Jed Metafien.

Yosemite Roots And Discipleship Story

Chris Grainger 4:31

Well, Jed, welcome to The Line with Dennis. How are you doing today, man? Doing great, Chris. Really good to be with you, brother. I'm excited for this one for sure. So looking forward, before we dive into the topic, maybe share something fun about you that not many people know about.

Jedd Medefind 4:46

Yeah, well, um, so our family, uh, my wife Rachel and five kids and I, we live in northern Virginia. Um, but our our roots are actually in central California. So I grew up kind of in the farming area in the middle of the state. And then we we had a small almond farm. Actually, my parents still live there in the middle of the state. But then in the summers, my dad worked as a ranger in Yosemite National Park. So the four, my my three younger brothers and I, we'd spend our summers in Yosemite, and I still love uh the the mountains there. You know, it's my favorite place in the world. Even just a few weeks ago, uh the kids and I and Rachel, we went backpacking in Yosemite National Park and just loved that. So that's that's one of my favorite things in life.

Chris Grainger 5:26

That's cool, man. I guess uh what's the closest thing to a Yosemite experience here on the East Coast that you found, Jed?

Jedd Medefind 5:33

Yeah, you know, I mean, I have done a little bit of backpacking here, and you know, the mountains are just different, right? They're out there, they're more jagged and and uh less less trees up at the higher elevation. But is, you know, I love the mountains out here too. You know, they're they're more rounded and sloping and it man, in the spring and fall, there's just it is just magnificent here in the east, right? In the spring, when you go from everything is dead, and life is, you know, it feels like there's nothing alive. And then suddenly, over a matter of weeks, like life is coming out from every crack and crevice, and buds and bees and blossoms. And so I I love it out here. Uh and then, but then, you know, it's it's great too, getting home to the central California, also.

Chris Grainger 6:11

Right. Love it, man. Love it. Well, we also love to hear from our our guests that that come on the line. Just a little bit about your discipleship journey. How did you come to know the Lord? What did that look like?

Jedd Medefind 6:21

Yeah, you know, the the I'll tell you, Chris, I there was a time, I'd say like in high school, when I'd be asked to give my my testimony, and I would feel like it was really kind of flat and boring because I didn't have any crazy, you know, life transformation at one particular moment. Um, and sometimes I almost wish wish that I had at that time, but I've realized now what an incredible blessing it was to grow up with a mom and a dad who just really loved Jesus and they lived that out in their public life and in their home. There was no gap between what they'd say at church and how they'd treat each other or treat us at home. And so um, you know, even though I I went through some times as a young adult in college and after where I really wrestled with some questions in my faith, I would say I had, you know, serious doubts about, hey, can I really believe this stuff? Um, I never wanted to rebel against my parents' faith because I saw it was the real deal and their lives were vibrant and fruitful as a result of their faith. And so, you know, it was um I went through some journeys early on, like I said, with with questions, but of course, um, I feel like the Lord met me in them. And he, you know, he wasn't troubled at all by me having questions and doubts, and he brought me through that to a place where uh I just I have this deep, deep confidence that, man, there is uh like like the disciples said to Jesus, where else would we go? You alone have the words of life.

Chris Grainger 7:48

Love it, man. Well, thank you for sharing that, Jed, so much. I really appreciate that. And and I'm so excited because you put a lot of effort, you gotta you got this book out now, rule your text, so it won't rule rule you. And I think it's a topic that is so spot on, particularly for our listeners, the Christian men are trying to be a leader that God intends them to be. And we're we're listening on devices right now, so they're like, wait a minute now, right? You know, hopefully he's not gonna tell me I gotta throw away my phone because that's how we listen to the lion. But but why tackle this issue?

The Smartphone Shift In Families

Chris Grainger 8:15

I mean, what did the Lord put on your heart directly that make you wanted to go down this route in the time that we're living in right now?

Jedd Medefind 8:21

Yeah. Well, you know, Chris, some of it was was just personal, like my noticing the ways in which my own interactions with, you know, my devices, my my smartphone and and and other, you know, screen-based technology could impact me so deeply, could could make me wound up and anxious. Uh, could could I I felt like it was eroding my ability to focus, to focus on work, to focus on the people I love, um, and uh and and impacting even my relationship with the Lord. And so, you know, I think I I just came to believe like, man, this is our the ways in which we interact with our screens and particularly our smartphones is gonna have a profound impact on virtually everything else in our lives our our marriages, our parenting, our work, our our own calm of our hearts, our relationship with the Lord. So that that was the personal part of it. Um, but there was also another uh kind of just a vignette that impacted me as well. And this was a couple years ago, and for work, um I was actually working in Ethiopia for a month, and my family was with me there. And uh I had been asked to to teach a workshop on technology because I've been writing and speaking on these themes for a number of years, and um and after the workshop, a woman asked to speak with my wife, and she said, Can we do it in private? So they went into another room, and this woman just started weeping, just tears just pouring down her face, and she shared with my wife, she said, you know, um, it was about a year ago that our family first got smartphones, and she said, I I used to feel that dinner time was the favorite part of the day, the best part of our day. And she said, and now we sit around the table and we're hardly connecting with each other. And she said, and our two children, they used to, they used to be so playful and explore and they'd create things and they'd enjoy each other. And she said, and now I feel like they hardly enjoy anything, and they're not even happy unless they're looking at their devices. Um and then she said, and even our bedroom, you know, uh, I feel like when when I'm there with my husband, we're just like in two separate places, or or like there's people in the bedroom with us because of our devices there. And and these, you know, this was a she said, My husband's a good Christian man, he's sincere, he's he's committed to Jesus, but technology had invaded every sphere of their family. And for them, you know, it had happened so fast. I think here in the West, because it played out over a decade or so, you know, we we got a little more used to it. I think we also were, you know, maybe had some people helping us think things through a little bit, but I think all of us can identify with at least some of the things she was saying. And we realized this has huge consequences, and we need to really be thoughtful about hey, where do we receive the gifts of technology, but where do we say, not here?

Chris Grainger 11:11

Right. Man, and what a great story. I mean, just think for her that the again to your point, we we kind of had a crock pot. We just oh slowly over time, and then next thing you know, we're just used to it versus her, that stark night and day, and she saw the immediate impact of it. So, I mean, uh just a great way that you I loved how you opened the book with the introduction with that as well. I just think that that draws us in to understand you know where it goes here. Then you go straight to talking about attention and how attention is ultimately eyeballs, man. People are are are trying to get our attention everywhere with stuff these days. So, I mean, how can a guy these days who recognizes that the enemy the enemy is trying to just get our attention? How can we recognize that? And what do we need to be doing to counter that?

Jedd Medefind 11:55

Yeah,

Attention Economy And Algorithm Pressure

Jedd Medefind 11:56

yeah. Well, you know, I I feel like one key piece is just recognizing that attention is the prime commodity, right? That that is the thing that tech companies are seeking to get. And and not necessarily loads of it. They're literally, you know, the designer of an app or uh, you know, a particular website or social media platform, they win if they can get just a couple more seconds of your attention today than yesterday. That's that's what they're after. And that doesn't mean they're bad people. It just that's that's their job, that's how they get paid. They can turn attention or what, you know, like you said, eyeballs into uh money and into influence. And so that is the game, in a sense. And um and and and what we need to realize is the people that, in a sense, are playing this game with us, if we envision ourselves sitting at a chess board, you know, with these people on the other side of that board is not just a really smart designer or programmer or content creator, but it's actually also algorithms and increasingly AI that is working to discern what does it take to get a couple more seconds of Chris's attention today than yesterday. And the the content, the form, the means, that they're agnostic to that. Whatever will get a little bit more of your attention, they will utilize that, whether it's something interesting, something sexual, something fear, you know, fearful. It could be intellectual, it could be neutral, it could be good, but they're going for the attention. And so that that's I think that realization is that that first moment where we say, okay, my attention is actually my most precious commodity. And the choices that I make with my attention will end up actually shaping my life, my impact on others, and even my own character more than anything else, because we grow like those things that we give our attention to. Over time, we're steadily formed by the things we give our attention to. And we can either become more anxious, angry, defensive, envious by virtue of our attentions, or people who are more calm, more joyful, more grateful, more other-centered, um, more living more richly in the life of God by our attentional decisions, small choices repeated over time. And so I would say, Chris, that realizing that attention is that core commodity, and our first and most important decisions in life have to do with our attention. That sets us up then to as we begin to get deeper into the questions of okay, where are we going to you know receive some wonderful things that technology can do? Where are we gonna say no? It all comes back to that first question of our attentional choices.

Chris Grainger 14:36

Right. 100%. Well, I love how you how you're going with that. I mean, the intentional choices we make as men, they and they have such a ripple and effect as well, what's going on, you know, inside of our homes. What our kids, they see what we pay attention to, let's just face it. You know, and I've seen so many dads in those moments where you know kids vying for attention, next thing you know, dad's just wrapped up in whatever it is. You know, it could be a Facebook post or Instagram post or YouTube short, it doesn't matter. I mean, it just ultimately what they're craving for is we're not giving it to them, you know?

Jedd Medefind 15:08

Yeah, that that's that's right.

Chris Grainger 15:11

I am curious, you know, at the time of this recording, just was it last week, the Facebook ruling came out and where they had they had this settlement. Well, what's your take on that? I mean, it's it's directly in alignment with what you're writing to, right? In some degree.

Jedd Medefind 15:27

Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think you know, that massive, massive settlement, Facebook was acknowledging, hey, we have done immense harm to young people. And, you know, they're saying they're gonna make some changes, and you know, my sense of what they're saying they're gonna do are is a step in the right direction. It's it's definitely not going to fundamentally uh change the realities we're talking about. You know, they will still be doing all they can to get attention, you know, to get your eyeballs, my eyeballs, young people's eyeballs. They will right now be because of the litigation, they'll have to be a little more cautious about how they do that with young people. Um, but it's uh it's it's it'll still be the fun, same fundamental thing. And and you know, what they're essentially recognizing is that some of these um, you know, the the things they were offering to people have had severe impacts, particularly on young minds and psyches and and emotions and and well-being.

Chris Grainger 16:24

Yeah. Absolutely. Hey guys, we'll take our first break. We're gonna come back and we'll keep diving into this topic because I think this is this worth some worth worth some time to camp out on. So we'll be right back.

Break: Sexual Integrity Support Group

Chris Grainger 16:36

It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying, This is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without condemnation. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography. It's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30-day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30-day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thelionwithin.us and step inside the lion's den.

A Dad’s Loving Authority With Tech

Chris Grainger 18:21

And Jed, just to continue on with this Facebook ruling, you know, I'm very curious because I see that where it's like, you know, you can turn off the algorithm or turn it on, or there's some things there, but the algorithm is really that's that's their ploy to keep to draw people in, particularly the youth, to draw them in. And then also I've seen these different parameters of what they're what they're proposing to put in place. A lot of it falls back on the dad and the mom, the parents within the home, right? Just to be able to accurately, you know, put that those things in place. So where do you see the home and a Christian father who's listening to this right now and he's hearing all this chatter about this Facebook settlement? What can he do as a dad, or what, what should he do to ultimately put their kids, our children on the best path?

Jedd Medefind 19:06

Yeah. Well, you know, I think there are very specific things that one might do in regard to um, you know, particular websites or particular technologies or social media and Facebook and other social sites, you know, there and and maybe we can get to some of those particulars uh in in a little bit. But the the big picture thing I would say is that all of us, and particularly dads, need to say, I need to exert a loving authority in relation to technology in our home. You know, I have, you know, God has delegated to me a certain authority, meaning the responsibility to care for, protect, and nurture the good of my family. And one of the most important expressions of that is in regard to technology. And, you know, and so what that does not mean is being passive. It does not mean just kind of letting the technology decide for us, letting our devices just, you know, kind of the default is they have lots of notifications and they're just beeping and blinging, grabbing our attention, grabbing our kids' attention anytime they want, right? And and loads of other things. What the fundamental question is, will we choose to rule our technology or will it rule us? Right? That's that's the first and watershed question. Because if we allow it to make the decisions, if we allow the algorithms to just kind of guide our attention and all of those things, it will always have its way with us. It will chew us up and spit us out. And we and our children, we will be anxious, we will lose our capacity to focus, we will lose our uh sense of connection to one another and to God if we do not rule the technology. And so that's, you know, it's this is a call to arms in a sense, you know, of stepping up and saying, hey, there's some wonderful things with our technology. And, you know, and we can continue to receive those, but we also need to say, hey, in these particular spaces in my home, these particular times in our family life, and these particular forms of content, I'm gonna say no here as a man who is called to protect and care for the good of his family.

Chris Grainger 21:17

Well, you mentioned a big A-word, anxiety. I feel like everybody I talk with these days, that's the that's the the buzzword that's going around. I mean, because it's a big deal. Lots of guys are dealing with it, their families are dealing with it, but you you kind of walk through this anxiety distraction cycle. I'd love for you to kind of break that down just a little bit if you don't mind for our listeners, because that the the algorithm, it exploits these human commote human emotions directly, and it helps us keep us trapped. So I'd love for you to kind of explore what you learned about that.

Jedd Medefind 21:47

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So,

The Anxiety Distraction Cycle Explained

Jedd Medefind 21:49

so what you know you just said is really key that the algorithms and the the one of the prime means of our our devices, particularly in social media, and uh, you know, that keep us engaged is by pushing our emotional buttons, right? And you know, anything that we kind of feel deeply that charges us up is going to be more likely to keep our attention. So, you know, again, they're agnostic as to what that is, just as long as it kind of charges us up and keeps us engaged with their content, they're fine with that. And it's, you know, and and and so very often, of course, the thing that's going to key us up and charge us up and engage us the most are things that are anxiety inducing. You know, it's anger, it's outrage, it's envy, it's fear, you know, and those are the buttons that it pushes because that's what keeps us engaged, right? And so we can kind of anticipate that if we're spending time on social media, um, and and often other mediums too, although social is where it's the most concentrated, but you know, a lot of times news uh will do the same thing for us and and maybe other things as well. And so when we encounter that and we will we feel some measure of anxiety, right? And it kind of keys. us up and then we we get off the device perhaps we have to do some other things but that those that low you know low grade maybe even sometimes high grade anxiety sticks with us and we we feel that antsiness and it you know it might be um a little bit like you know a a smoker feels when they can't get their cigarettes there's just this kind of antsiness our fingers are twitching and the one thing that that we kind of begin to feel can actually calm us down is getting a little bit more of our device because our device will will suck our attention in and it will, you know, and so during the time when we're kind of when our attention is highly focused on something there on our device, that does temporarily relieve some of that feeling of anxiousness. But of course it doesn't truly solve the problem. In fact it inflames it often right if we if we go to kind of comfort ourselves or calm ourselves with the very thing that inflamed those anxieties in the first place. And so it makes us all the more anxious. And and it actually, Chris, the the the it these habits erode our capacity for attention, right? Because it becomes harder and harder to give our attention to things that are subtle, that are gentle, that are slow, like being outdoors and just enjoying a sunset or enjoy enjoying fishing or enjoying even talking with one person across the table those things in comparison to that shock and awe in essence that happens to our senses when we're you know flipping through short form video or other social or news, you know, we those things feel very unstimulating. And so our capacity to focus on things that aren't highly, highly engaging begins to weaken and erode. And that actually begins to contribute to our our our anxiety as well because we're not able to give our attention to the one thing in front of us and kind of all these swirling things including worries that we have about our family, our future worries about the world worries about our country worries about the currency worry worries about AI, all those things that are floating out there, because we can't give a focused attention to whatever is right in front of us, those things come kind of spilling inward and that again it feeds the anxiety and then we turn to our devices to to kind of calm and it becomes this anxiety distraction cycle.

Chris Grainger 25:27

Yeah. And just keep it just keeps going on and on and on. And then I mean you got that that distraction cycle then you have this the TikTok and I don't know a lot about TikTok but you had some stuff in your book about TikTok not on it. Thank the Lord hopefully that'll stay that way forever. But I mean we see right here this TikTok is trading this social contagion out there where this this digital content is driving so much of the young people and the way that they think the way that they act and the way that it'll respond. So

TikTok And Identity Narratives

Chris Grainger 25:53

what what are you seeing there?

Jedd Medefind 25:54

Yeah well I think TikTok would would be in many ways like the um most intensive form of what we're talking about these short form videos you know that that literally you know you you look at it for two seconds or five seconds if you're interested you'll watch a little longer if not you just keep swiping swiping swiping and so there's this constant flow of very highly stimulating things. And so it it does contribute to this anxiety distraction cycle it contributes significantly I believe to distraction and to anxiety um but then you also have ideas that are coming through that you know that are it and different claims about the world claims about things that are true. Some of them are you know very possibly positive maybe there's some positive uh you know influencers that are talking about uh faith or other things and then there's some neutral things that are just kind of you know some this or that bit of news and but there's a lot of things that are not good, right? That are pointing young people uh to things that are very unhealthy, to to mistaken answers to the fundamental question many young people feel, which is, you know, I think all of us, Chris, deep down uh have this sense the world is not quite what it should be, right? The world is off. Something's broken out there and something's broken in me, right? And so we ask the question, what's wrong with the world? We ask that just without ever saying the words, we feel that question. And when someone on TikTok answers, you know, what's wrong with the world isn't that there's sin and brokenness and selfishness and rebellion against God. But what's wrong with the world is that you're actually a you know a boy born into a girl's body and you need to change that. And if you can change that you will feel better about yourself and the world and that will fix this feeling that something's wrong in the world. When when things like that are flowing to you through videos and that and then algorithms that if you show any interest in that it keeps feeding you more and more of those messages that can really really mess with a person's head especially a young person who's already feeling insecure.

Chris Grainger 27:57

Man this is just some heavy stuff right here. So as you're thinking through I mean so many guys are thinking right now man, okay all this is happening around me Jen like what do I do? Like what what what what steps can I take as a man and and for myself first and foremost but also with my family to step start guiding them down the direct path because I'm I just see it. I mean it's it's so so many people are so reliant. I mean exactly you want to make a someone lose their mind just take their phone away from them for an hour. I mean that's they'll just they'll have a meltdown. We've seen cases of that stuff right so what be your encouragement to guys when they're hearing this like what okay what practically steps can I take as a man to move some of this forward.

Jedd Medefind 28:37

Yeah

Small Tech Rules With Big Results

Jedd Medefind 28:37

yeah well Chris and this is this comes to my you know the the the really good stuff because there are alongside this bad news that we've been dealing with and it is bad. I mean it is but bad in the sense that the things we feel ourselves sure uh and things we see you know within our own friend circle in our own homes um and we see this in data on a national level you know young people are not doing well anxiety and depression and suicides have risen dramatically since around 2012 which is when the majority of Americans first the majority of Americans own the smartphone that you know and we've seen just a steady climb in those negative outcomes. So so the there the bad news is really bad. But there really is good news as well. And one of the key pieces of that is that relatively small choices to set bounds on our technology can make a really significant difference. And that is very good news. So I'll just I'll just share one study um that I that I I love this was just from last year University of Alberta in Canada and they had about 250 participants who um in essence installed a little blocker on their phone that they could still use their phones for voice and for texting but their internet use of their phone was all shifted to laptops. So so you know they they that meant that like they could still if they wanted to access social media or news or email they could do that but only on their laptop. So the the net effect was you know to to reduce the ways in which the internet was invading every crack and crevice of their lives you know sitting on the couch but then they're just scrolling through their phone or they you know at a stoplight or in the bathroom right and so it was much less invasive into their lives and their their overall use of the internet went down um by by a by a chunk, but they of course continued to use it on the laptop. So you would think this is a significant change but on the other hand I'm not sure how much of an impact that would make because they're still doing a lot of the same things on the laptop. Well two weeks into the study the researchers came back ran a battery of tests and the people you know the portion of the uh the the participants who had done that that their self-reported well-being and happiness had risen dramatically they were just feeling happier they were like more more glad about life secondly their markers of anxiety and depression had dropped significantly as as much as you could hope for from a case of antidepressants so so literally you know like as effective as this pharma pharmacological uh you know intervention but without any side effects right um and and then third on tests of focus their capacity to focus on things they they actually were dramatically increased scores so much so that it was equivalent to 10 years of reversed aging like literally you know if you're 45 it would be like you're back to your mid-30s in terms of your capacity for focus and there were a number of other lesser markers but things like they people said they they felt like they were sleeping better, more connected with neighbors and friends they they felt uh a greater self sense of self-control in other areas of life like exercising or how they they're they ate and Chris happened in two weeks you know and um you know so the the point isn't that this is the solution for everyone but the point is that making some changes um you know and in relatively short periods of time can make a dramatic difference for us and for for our families what an incredible uh just study right there just goes to show you you know what happens when you can take those little bitty um fast if you will step back from it and the impact it can have I mean you guys are looking for the uh fountain of use apparently just delete Facebook I mean I don't know that's kind of what I was picking up what Jed was saying there so man that that's really good stuff right there.

Chris Grainger 32:46

I mean

AI Discernment And Outsourcing Your Mind

Chris Grainger 32:47

what about uh one area I forgot to mention that I'd love to get your opinion on because I'm getting so many guys asking questions about this it's like AI say okay as a as a man now you know and and with my children and my spouse and in my home where should I allow AI? How should I view AI from a Christian worldview? You know is it good is it is it destruction is it the evil one I've I've heard it all right Jid so I mean what's your take on on AI and how should we be handling that as Christian men here today?

Jedd Medefind 33:14

Yeah well that's a great question Chris and I and I think the truth is we're all really trying to discern that and I and I think you know that um you know I mean even the people who who are literally creating these AIs themselves really don't know exactly how it works and where it's going. And and so you know the I wouldn't claim in any way to be smarter than or even as smart as those people and and even they don't know. But but so what I can say with a great deal of confidence is that what is required of us as men is the same thing as with all of our other technology devices which is we cannot just let the default beyond you know if we can we should it it really requires us looking very seriously at and saying okay what what is the impact of this on my family, on my mind, on my heart, on my relationship with the Lord, and then you know and then make choices about that rather than letting it just happen to us right so again the decision to rule our tech rather than letting it rule us. And then in the book I include a few key thoughts on that kind of principles and questions to ask as we interact with AI so so for instance, you know what one of the biggest things we need to know is that if we're utilizing AI, any of our capabilities that we begin to ask AI to do for us, that muscle will begin to atrophy. Anything that it's doing for us, our capacity to do that over time will atrophy. And if our kids are using it to do that, if it's a muscle they haven't even developed, you know, that muscle will never develop. And that doesn't that doesn't make it bad necessarily right like for for instance you know the the the invention of the printing press and having things written down actually reduced humans' capacity to memorize things dramatically and that wasn't necessarily bad. So the point isn't that it's always bad to have a shift in human capacities but we really do need to make atten pay attention like for you know if if we believe that the capacity to think an argument through and then you know analyze something and then prayerfully discern is important, then we may need to make sure that we're not just outsourcing all of our discernment functions to AI.

Chris Grainger 35:34

Right. Right. Man well that's a great great perspective there Jed thank you so much because I mean this is a this is a big one I I try to encourage guys like AI is a great for for mining some information for for helping you kind of look at large pieces of data but when it comes to so far as being creative or I I think there's just certain areas where we might need to put some good boundaries around it and and ultimately you know like you said just just have a rule that that that part of the of our lives I'm not saying don't use it. I'm not going that far to be a Pharisee when it comes to AI but also have some some good uh discernment around it if you will for sure for sure awesome awesome look we're gonna take our last break guys we'll we'll be right back with you if you've ever opened the Bible and had the thought where do I even start brother you're not alone I've had those moments all too often and I found that having a guide was helpful and that's why we created the I'm just a guy series on the Bible

Break: Bible App Reading Plans

Chris Grainger 36:37

app. They're short they're honest and they help you read scripture and walk it out. And these plans speak to the real stuff that we're wrestling with as men like marriage, anxiety loneliness, shame, pornography and so much more. And do this all without pretending or piling on a bunch of self-help nonsense. And lots of guys are using them in their small groups and they're helping to spark honest conversations and take simple next steps in their discipleship journey. So if that sounds helpful check them out at the lionwithin dot us slash U version. So that's Y-O-U-D-E-R-S-I-O-N or just open up your Bible app and search for the Lion Within Us. And it's my hope that these reflections will encourage you in just a few minutes and help you walk with him all day long. Jed

The Phone-Free Bedroom Framework

Chris Grainger 37:36

one area in your book that I really enjoyed was we were talking about the invent the invitation to a phone free bedroom. And I just thought that was so salient that we I'd love for you to to share that we we do this at at our home with our children and a lot of the things you you've kind of laid out just just checks which I only have one that has a phone and she had to she she got it when she turned 15 where she was the only one for probably five years who didn't have a phone. I mean it was crazy. She was the only one but we waited till she was 15 and now it's uh you have a lot of guard reels and things like that around that phone.

Jedd Medefind 38:11

But uh just curious you know for you coming up with this this this default right here of directly so a phone free bedroom like what's what's the outline what what's the framework for that yeah yeah well the you know kind of the the the the broader framework was my wife and I sitting down and just in a time of you know just hey let's let's pause and let's think together about where we want to receive and utilize the gifts of technology and where we want to say not here. And so in particular and of course this is as you know Chris is is in the book is we we really thought through specific places so so particular places in the home and and then particular times and then particular forms of media to which we would say hey not here or not at this time or not this particular type of media and and so one of those is as you noted is is the bedroom. That in terms of spaces that's a space in our home where we decided you know what we don't want to have um our the the presence and influence of our phone in a bedroom we want our bedroom to be a place for connection intimacy rest and so it it really is great that Rachel and I and we uh usually about a half hour before bed so this actually gets to the a time question also the last 30 minutes of the day we say those last 30 minutes of the day those are precious thoughts that's a time to connect with each other for our minds and our hearts to kind of begin to calm and slow down a bit. And so we'll do our best and we were not rigid about this but we do our best at least half an hour before bedtime, turn our phones off, put them in a charger outside of our bedroom and then we can be together with each other. We could read a book we could you know talk go for a little walk whatever it is that we want to do or you know get in bed and talk and and then you know have the night without any technology and then wake up in the morning and again our first thoughts of the day are not dictated to us by our phones. Right? Because you know when when our phone is right there by our bed charging and then we wake up and we roll over and look at our phone first thing what's happening is our first thoughts of the day are being dictated to us. You know, they're being decided by someone else. Someone else has decided I want Chris to think about this. I want him to worry about this. And that might be someone texting you about something if you're looking at your email it's some worry from work maybe some financial concern if you're looking at the news it's the latest outrage in Washington or whatever might you know kind of key you up if you look at social, something that makes you envious or frustrated and that's going to be your first thoughts of the day or dictated to you by someone else what an algorithm decided you need to think about. Instead, you know what I would propose is so much better is instead wake up and if you drink coffee, get your cup of coffee and spend a little time with the Lord, maybe go for a walk, maybe you know sit and read scripture. You might want to journal a little bit if you sing, sing a song but but you decide the first thoughts of the day. And man as Rachel and I have done that both you know choosing our last thoughts of the day and sleeping with a phone free bedroom and then choosing our first thoughts today man I'll tell you Chris I feel like I'm so much more calm. I feel like my my capacity for focus is higher I feel more much more connected with Rachel and with the Lord. And so it's you know I would highly commend that to anyone to consider that idea that's very that's that's spot on.

Chris Grainger 41:35

And I

Why Parents’ Use Shapes Kids Most

Chris Grainger 41:36

also thought it was interesting you mentioned the BYU study and it and I thought this was pretty pretty cool and it's where it's worth sharing where where a parent's social media use actually has a bigger impact on a child and their mental health than their the child's own use.

Jedd Medefind 41:52

I mean that that's kind of crazy right yeah yeah that's right yeah like like you said you know a a a child's use of social media does profoundly impact them. So it's not saying there's no effect there it's it's actually very significant. However, the parents use of social media will impact the child's mental health even more than the child's use there. And while while the study itself can't show exactly why that is I think we can at least guess that you know kids desperately need the full presence and attention of their parents and their parents continual distraction says to that child, I I don't value you. You know, now of course the parent still does value, but it's sending that message. And of course they're also much less likely to notice important signals from the kids if the kid's not doing well, you know, if the if the parent is kind of in and out of the stimulant of social media, uh it's going to make it much harder for them to pick up on the subtler signals from from their child. And and so um I think Chris what this what that ultimately says to me is it starts with us, right? It's this this isn't first and foremost a call to kind of crack down on our kids' tech use. Now I I do believe parents do need to be very active and exercise a loving authority in their kids' lives in regard to technology and many other things too. That's important. But but first even before we do that we need to wrestle with okay what are the ways in which I'm using technology that really aren't you know the healthiest they're not they're not nurturing calm and focus and connection and begin to deal with those and and then go to our kids. And I'll I'll tell you Chris I I I think it's marvelous when parents go to their kids and say hey guys you know I realize I haven't been doing a good job of this and I realize I I'm looking at the fruit and the fruit is not good. Fruit the fruit is anxiousness the fruit is distraction the fruit is disconnection and that's not what I want for myself it's not what I want for a family. And so I'm making some changes and we're gonna do this together as a family and these rules that we're setting you know sometimes they need to be a little different for kids and parents but I would say most of the rules are going to be similar. Certainly the principles are the same principles for parents and child, you know? And and so that includes things like hey no one in the family has a phone in the bedroom. It's not just like for you kids it's all of us because that's it this erodes you know a lot of healthy things. And and I would another one Chris I'd say is I I don't think like our family has chosen not to have any devices at meal tables. When we're at a meal together no device and um and it's not a rule for the kids it's a rule for all of us right so and and we talk through the reasons for that it's it's you know it's not just a rule for rule's sake right the reason is we want to really be together fully present connecting with each other during meals that's it that's what it's all about. It's not about some limit on tech. It's about the positive vision. And then for the sake of that positive vision then we we have this family commitment which is you know no devices at the table when we're sharing a meal.

Chris Grainger 44:53

Right. So basically you're telling us to take the take the plank out of our eye first. Got it. Okay.

Jedd Medefind 44:59

Yeah yeah at least start there and not not that we're gonna get Perfect, right? But but that we're like, hey, we're we're taking stock of that. And that's that's the idea of the a tech rule, you know, and and right not in a legalistic sense, but it's it's saying, what what choices do I want to make to cultivate flourishing and health in regard to my technology? And I'm gonna think about it, A, and then I'm gonna write it down. And I'm gonna say, hey, here's some times, some places, and particular sorts of media that I'm gonna set in their proper place, and I'm gonna um do this thoughtfully. I'm gonna write this down. I'm gonna start trying to live this. I won't do it perfectly, but I'm gonna try to do that. That's the personal part of it. And then we just extend that vision to the whole family.

Chris Grainger 45:44

Yeah.

Writing The Book And Staying Honest

Chris Grainger 45:44

Well, what was the hardest part of doing this project, Jid? And I guess also, where do you feel like the biggest hypocrite when you when you look at this project and knowing that your name was on it?

Jedd Medefind 45:55

That is a great question. You know, um, the hardest part of it was just um getting the time to write, you know, just because I I uh my full-time work is is leading an organization called the Christian Alliance for Orphans or CAFO. And so that's a you know, very full-time. I love it. I love pouring into that um work, but uh, you know, just finding the extra hours, evenings and weekends sometimes, you know, was was challenging. But but I loved it. And I I'll tell you, Chris, I feel so passionate about this, and I feel like my own life has become um just so much better. I mean, honestly, it's like I just feel like I feel more calm, I feel more capable to focus, I feel more connected with God and with my family, with friends as a result of these things. And so I just want that for others. So that part of it is just, you know, it really is a joy to get to write about these things, speak about them, um, even when I do it imperfectly. Now, the the the hypocrite part of it, that's a great question. You know, um, let's see. I I mean, for the most part, I I'm I'm very much living the things I'm saying. And I don't, so I don't feel like there's any huge gap there. But I I will just acknowledge, man, it is it is crazy how strong the the smartphone poll still is. You know, like if if it's Thanksgiving and I'm there, you know, with family and loving being with our extended family, and I go into the the bathroom for you know three minutes, the the if the phone's in my pocket, it's still just crying out to me, you know, look at me, look at me, I got something really interesting for you, you know? And it just, and so I I the the the pull is there and and you know, and sometimes, you know, I just say like uh you know, and I and I just say, Oh, you know, I'm gonna do a quick email check. And and that is so foolish because it, you know, I'm not accomplishing anything. I'm looking at the email and then I go back or whatever it is, maybe look at you know my bank account balance or the weather for the next week. But you know, I'll I'll I'll go back out and be with the family at Thanksgiving, and my mind is now a little bit splintered by the things that I looked at, right? And you know, and and the point isn't that we never do a quick check of the phone, but the point is that these things are just wanting to invade every crack and crevice, and unless we're really setting them in their place, they're gonna they're gonna work havoc on our minds and hearts.

Chris Grainger 48:07

Amen. Amen, bro. Well, thank you for everything. Before we

Rapid Fire And Spiritual Warfare Reality

Chris Grainger 48:10

wrap up, I'd love to do a little rapid fire round with you just to have some fun here at the very end of our podcast. Jed, is that okay? All right, well, great. Well, you've already mentioned that you know getting in the woods is a fun thing for you, but what's your favorite hobby? What do you enjoy doing for fun?

Jedd Medefind 48:24

Yeah, I mean, that would be it, you know, just whether hiking or backpacking, fly fishing, um, love being outside, love being with with my family and and good friends, you know, especially doing something outdoors together. Um, and and I like reading too, but I feel like there's man, with we've got five kids, so it feels like there's less time for that than there used to be.

Chris Grainger 48:43

There you go. And what's the ages of your kids?

Jedd Medefind 48:46

So oldest uh just finished college, she's 22, and youngest is 14. Wow.

Chris Grainger 48:52

Okay. That's great, man. Wonderful. I have four myself, so uh, you know, you're a little bit further ahead, but man, that's that's awesome. So, what about uh go-to food? What's your favorite go-to meal, Jed?

Jedd Medefind 49:04

Well, man, when it comes to desserts, ice cream pie, that's that's absolutely my favorite, man. Uh and uh, you know, my birthday's coming up, and and my wife said, you know, made a joke about so ice cream pie, and uh I just smiled and nodded.

Chris Grainger 49:19

Nice. Love it, love it, love it. So what's uh you you you you kind of lay out a lot of things here in this book, but what's another habit? We always like to share habits and and trip, you know, tips and tricks and things like that that that we do as Christian men to just help it could be from a health standpoint, it could be you know mental, physical, anything that you do on a regular basis that you think guys would enjoy just hearing that maybe not many people do?

Jedd Medefind 49:45

Yeah, well, I'll mention two things. One is, you know, um a few years ago, maybe five years ago now, and my three younger brothers and I, we were all talking, and and we all realized that we all kind of still saw ourselves as athletes, but we just we weren't, and and we just were not exercising, you know, all that much. And so we did this little thing where we challenged each other to do just a very small amount, five minutes of exercise a day five times a week. And if we set it up a little thing where, you know, if we didn't do it, we we'd have to pay money into the kitty, uh, you know, at the end of the year. And and the the great thing that it was five minutes. So it's like, you know, hey, just get down and do, you know, some push-ups or do, you know, do something really light. But once you've done five minutes, a lot of times you're like, oh, I'll do it, you know, another five. And then and what that did is it it for the for all four of us brothers, it just got us into this rhythm of of doing little bits of exercise every day, which has actually since expanded into more. And so, you know, I just the point is starting with small changes repeated over time, they add up to a lot.

Chris Grainger 50:50

Amen to that, brother. Amen. Love that tip. So when when you think about God, Jeff, what's your favorite thing about him? I love just asking this question.

Jedd Medefind 51:00

Well, I'll I'll tell you, Chris, I I feel like um in this season of life I am desiring to, and and I think I'm I'm sincerely beginning to experience uh what it looks like just to to live moment by moment with a sense that he's he's nearby, you know, like not the you know, hey, I say some prayers in the morning or on Sunday and kind of get in touch with God then, but uh just r uh a sensation that he is right nearby. And I I actually kind of envision it a little bit like when I was a when I was a little boy and we had an almond farm, like I told you, and I would work with my dad a lot out in the orchard. And and years later he told me, you know, um, you know, Jed, when you were when you were little, it wasn't it didn't help me get the things done to have you with me, you know. And I and I and of course, you know, that's true, right? When you got a six-year-old, it's actually more work to have him with you than not. But he said, But I I first of all, I just loved being with you. And two, I wanted you to learn to work like a man. And I really think that's what our father's heart, our heavenly father's heart as well, that he he delights to be with us, he delights for us to be with him, and he wants us to learn in in my dad's words, to work like a man, but meaning to be fruitful, to bring good to others, to uh, you know, do do the things, whatever it is he's given us to do with quality, um, in a way that brings good to others and is pleasing to him. And so I just I want to live my whole life that way, to be with my father and to learn from him and moment by moment, and I'll tell you, it's it's pretty darn sweet.

Chris Grainger 52:47

That is awesome. Love that answer, by the way. And now let's flip to 180 Jed. What's your least favorite thing about Satan?

Jedd Medefind 52:58

Oh, I you know I haven't pondered that question, but I will tell you there's been some guys in my life just very recently who have you know blown it big time and really what happened in their lives is they they're they're they're Christians, they still are, but and and they look they love Jesus, but they allowed small compromises, little tiny choices, I think, first just in their thought life and little little tiny actions and then bigger actions. And they woke up one day doing something, you know, that they never would have imagined. And I and and I see how it has worked havoc, worked just destruction in their home, in their marriage, with their kids, in their own heart and life, and it just makes me hate evil and it hate sin, you know, because it is so corrosive and it destroys lives, and and it makes seeing that and aching over it just makes me want to be be pure, you know, not not because like to be holier than now or anything like that, but because true holiness, you know, is so good. And the opposite of that, the the small compromises that lead to death over time, it's they're horrible, you know. So I I Satan's right in the thick of that, right? So that's that's what I hate.

Chris Grainger 54:27

100%, bro. Well said. Well, yeah, it's been an honor having you all. Where where can guys, if they want to connect with you, obviously where can they get the book? But I don't know if you're on any any social platforms or anything. I mean, you with the with your book, book topic. You may not be. That's right.

Jedd Medefind 54:44

But uh, social personally through the organization I lead. We we use it to you know to get messages out there. Uh so the Christian Alliance for Orphans or CAFO.org. CAFO.org is the organization I lead. And it's a it's a wonderful uh it's a it's actually a collection of about 300 different Christian ministries that are all serving kids that need protection and care. So everything from U.S. foster care to orphans around the world, wonderful ministries doing good work. And through this alliance, we we do shared projects and work together on some of the big issues in the field. So anyway, that's that's that's my work. And then, of course, the book you can find it on Amazon. Uh rule your tech so it won't rule you.

Chris Grainger 55:26

There you go. There you go. Well, Jane, anything else you'd like to share today, sir?

Jedd Medefind 55:30

You know, Chris, I just, man, I just want these men that are listening to know, you know, how critical their role is. And I think if they're listening, I think they have some sense of that. And I know you're just reminding them of that continually through this program, which is just tremendous. But, you know, I think so often men feel in their heart of hearts, they think, you know, if you need me to their wife, to their kids, to the world, if into their country, if you need me, I'm there. I will give my life if I am needed. But if you don't need me, I'd rather just play video games. You know, that's like in one form or another how they feel. And so a lot of men are just kind of like, well, I guess I'm not needed, so I'm gonna play video games. And, you know, but that is such a lie. That is one of those devious lies of the enemy. And, you know, what men need to know is, well, they are desperately needed, right? They're needed to love and build up and encourage and care for their wives and to lead their families and to challenge their kids, to bring to them the loving authority that pairs affection and warmth with firm discipline, right? Not just one or the other. Um, you know, sometimes we can be one, sometimes the other, but man, our kids need that blend of that firm discipline with warm affection. And uh, and our and our society needs us, our country needs us in this moment. And so I just say to any man who thinks, man, am I really needed, or should I just retreat and go play video games or golf or whatever it is, you know, say, no, no, you you are deeply, deeply needed. And uh technology is one one you know one area of choices in which I think it makes us better men, better leaders, better husbands, better fathers, better, better employees and leaders. But uh there's many other things, of course, too.

Chris Grainger 57:15

Amen, brother. Amen. Well, Jed, well done. I mean, great work. I know it's gonna make a massive impact. And it was an honor having you on today, sir. Thank you. All right, Chris. Well, thank you, brother. Keep up your wonderful work too, with Lion Within. Amen, brother. Have a great day. All right, guys.

Question Of The Week And Next Steps

Chris Grainger 57:32

I told you that's gonna be a good one. So thankful for Jed for coming on. Uh, question of the week this week is how are your daily tech habits building up your spiritual life? You know, I want to ask it that way versus tearing it down. We know how they're tearing it down, but how is it building it up? And it's just one thing that just instantly comes to mind for me, obviously, because I'm a uh uh very blessed to be a partner with them, is the Bible app. I mean, you talk about using that technology for good. That's it right there. Get in God's word each and every day. And sometimes, you know, use that if you want to use your technology instead of scrolling, just open up the Bible app. Hey, click on the uh line within us page there, and we got tons and tons and tons of reading plans. So you'll be encouraged, you'll be challenged, and you're right there in God's word, fellas. That's just great ways to do that. So just think about that for you and your walk. How is tech your daily tech habits building up your spiritual walk? And hopefully you'll be encouraged by it and and and can think through maybe some areas you need to adjust or pivot or things like that. So, anyway, guys, hope you enjoyed this one. It was a great head on. Share it out there with others, particularly maybe uh this be a good one to share with like youth pastors, because youth pastors are directly working with the the next generation, the younger generation. And it may be some things for them to consider. The book may be a good resource for them as well, just to introduce you know to get some of these concepts to the kids. Like the phone-free bedroom, like, bro, we're there. We're we're there as our family. And it's been that's just a that's a that's a standard. That's a standard that we're not going to deviate from. It's also not a very popular standard from the world standpoint. But at the end of the day, guys, we don't want to be popular with the world. We want to be standing with the convictions and taking the action based off what the Holy Spirit is telling us to do. So you just do that. John 2 5. Do whatever he tells you to do, baby. That's it. All right. So, guys, thanks for listening. Come back on Friday. We'll have a great uh member spotlight on Friday. I know you guys are gonna like that. So hopefully we we'll see you there at that one. Other than that, give us a rating review. Head over to the lionwithin.us, guys. We got so many things happening right now. The website's been completely redesigned. If you haven't looked at the website in a while, completely redesigned of the website. Uh we have obviously the Bible app, I've already talked about that. We have a daily spiritual kickoff. I talked about that earlier. We have our lions then. We also have our leadership mastermind. You can put applications there. Or if you're just liking the lion, maybe you like the stuff on the Bible app, maybe you like the podcast, maybe you like the videos, the YouTube content, whatever the stuff we put out. And you're just like, bro, I want to get behind it. Hey, be one of our supporters, okay? Just go to the lionwithin.us slash uh pursuit, and you can you can help us directly with with supporting us each and every month. That would be awesome. And if you have a men's group and you would like for me to come give a charge for you guys, like a kick in the pants, if you will, hit me up, okay? Just reach out. There's all sorts of ways to do that on the website. We're filling up 2027 right now. So we love to know wherever you're at. You know, we we try to figure out how we can best serve, what makes the best sense, and we'd love to connect with you and just talk about if that would be a good fit. So if you're a men's ministry leader or you're just working with a church, or you're just, hey man, I'd love to bring Chris at the Lion Within Us in here and be a good kickoff. I'd love to talk to you about that. So just reach out. You can just you can send an email to support at the linewithin.us. Those emails get monitored, and if it makes sense, we will definitely see how we can figure this out for you guys, okay? One of the great things we do with that is just bring in the book, bring in the resources. I'll come in, I can do a maybe we can do a wild game dinner or do a men's breakfast or do a men's conference, whatever work makes the most sense. We're really flexible. We just want to walk with you, serve you, and help equip your men in your church to be the leaders that God intends them to be. So we'd love to hear from you guys. Other than that, have a great day, get after it. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you next time and just keep unleashing the lion within. It's

Final Invitation To Get Support

Chris Grainger 1:01:22

time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying this is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without commendation. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography. It's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30 day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30 day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thelionwithin.us, and step inside the lion's den.