Scripture, Unity, And Quick Updates

Chris Grainger 1:05

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Stranger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, meet episode time. Let's get into it, okay? So the scripture of the week this week is Matthew 19, verse 6, and it says this. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no person is to separate. Guys, love that verse. I unpacked that linked in a spiritual kickoff episode. So go back, listen to that one, be the last one in your podcast, in your podcast feed. If you enjoyed the spiritual kickoff episodes on the podcast, guys, you probably will love the daily spiritual kickoff we have Monday through Friday at the Line Within Us. So every Monday through Friday, I open up God's word, I read it, I try to give an encouragement from it, reveal what the Holy Spirit revealed to me, and you can join right along. It's a live video stream. If you can't watch the live stream, don't worry. We put the videos in that space for you each and every day. It also has access to a prayer request space. So we'd love to pray for you. If you have something on your heart and you just want some prayer, you just want some brothers in Christ to be lifting these prayers up together. This is what we do. Every Monday we have a prayer meeting, guys. So go join that. And if you're in a daily SKO as well, we get a free gift in the Continental for you guys that are in the Continental U.S. So just join it. So go to the lionwithn.us, you'll see the daily SKO. It's right there, it's pervasive on the website. Just click it, join it. It's all free, and we'd love to see you there, okay?

Why Year One Sets The Tone

Chris Grainger 2:27

All right. So this is a great episode, fellas, for particularly for you guys who are newly married, or for you guys who have men in your life who are going to be getting married anytime in the near future, okay? Uh so brought in Mike Novotany, he's the author, pastor, speaker. He's out of Appleton, Wisconsin, okay? So he's the lead speaker for Time of Grace, which is this global media ministry that reaches out just a ton of people out there, fellas. So, but Mike wrote a book called Newlywed, a Christian Guide for Loving Year One. And we really unpack some topics at hand as far as you know who God says you are within your marriage. We talk about, you know, you're having your in-laws, we talk about sex, we talk about communication, we talk about date night and all the things that are associated with you getting getting your marriage off on a strong foot. Now, check this out though. This is not just for newlyweds. Because I'm gonna tell you, I the things we talked about are applicable. You've been married for a couple decades, it applies. And I unfortunately I talked to way too many guys where this stuff, their marriages are struggling, and it's because we got off track, right? We got off track. I mean, it talks about pornography and some different, many different things we dive into. So look, wherever you're at in your marriage, you may not think that you're newlyweds, but you have a new opportunity to realign and get this thing right in the way that God designs. And this is what Mike and I talk about. So hopefully you're gonna enjoy this conversation. I certainly did. The sit back, have some fun with my friend Mike Novotny.

Mike’s Story And Why He Wrote

Chris Grainger 3:58

Well, Mike, welcome to The Line within us. How's it going today, sir? It's going great, Chris. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have you here for sure, man. Absolutely. So before we get into the topic at hand, share with us a little fun fact about Mike that not many people know about. Oh, man, fun facts.

Mike Novotny 4:15

Um I have I have I've kissed two girls in my life. Okay. One of them um decided she didn't want to kiss men at all for the rest of her life, and the other decided she wanted to marry me.

Chris Grainger 4:29

Dang, that's pretty good bat and average, bro. I mean, that's pretty good bat and average right there.

Mike Novotny 4:35

You know? Not too bad. I have one girlfriend and she became my fiance, and her name is Kim. And uh, we've been married for 23 years in one month now.

Chris Grainger 4:43

And the other one says she won't bat for the other team.

Mike Novotny 4:47

Man, you can't predict this stuff.

Chris Grainger 4:51

Hey man, better find out that right then than later on, right? You know, so that's good. That's good stuff. I'll honestly say that's a first for the for the fun fact, man. So uh you you may take the top for the fun fact, as a matter of fact. That was pretty awesome. So I'd love to love to look just uh share a little bit about you. So where you're from, family, all that fun stuff. So you're Wisconsin, right?

Mike Novotny 5:13

Yeah, yeah. So I was raised in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Uh nice Packers fan, I'm assuming. You know, I'm actually more of a soccer guy, but not against the Packers. Okay, okay. Yeah. And uh my mom was a faithful Christian woman, brought me to church, so I kind of knew the Lord from a really young age. Uh got the bug in in high school to become a pastor. So just reading reading my Bible. Mark chapter eight was what got me. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul? And uh man, something about that just grabbed me and made me want to preach the gospel. So I went to a little Bible college in 1999 uh at the freshman mixer. I met this girl named Kim who would later become my wife. Uh, we got married right after school. I did seminary here in Wisconsin, and I've been serving churches in Wisconsin for uh about 19 years now. Nice. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 5:59

That's awesome, man. That's awesome. So definitely looking forward to the conversation. I really appreciate the book, too. I mean, newlywed, a Christian guy for for loving year one. So and I like the different topics you brought down. But maybe kind of open up what did God lay on your heart to want to tackle a topic like this? Because this is a very niche topic that you're trying to go in right here, right? Most people like to go broad and serve everybody, but I love how you dialed it in right here.

Mike Novotny 6:24

Yeah. So I actually interviewed um 20 newlyweds from our church, and I kind of asked them, like, what did you think marriage was going to be? You know, you've been in church enough, you took the little pre-marriage school. Like, what do you think it was going to be? And what was it actually? And kind of the gap between their expectations and reality is what kind of crafted this book. That um, you know, you go into a relationship that's serious and you love each other. Hopefully you both love the Lord. But man, you're gonna need to have some really important, specific conversations to get this right. It's a it's a glorious, beautiful relationship, but it's probably like the one of the most challenging, personal, revealing, exposing, convicting. Like if I sometimes say if you think you're a pretty good Christian, get married. And then God will hold up a giant, uh freshly cleaned mirror so that you can see all the parts of you. So yeah, such a beautiful relationship. I wanted couples to do it right.

Chris Grainger 7:19

Amen, bro. Something is a lot of a lot of work that went into that front end of it for sure. And uh, so I mean, the the project walk us through like how how did you start beginning laying it out and knowing the topics that did you get the topics from them and through your counseling over the years that did you that you knew that these are typical stumbling blocks for young married couples?

Mike Novotny 7:38

Yeah, and my own experience, you know, I was 20 some years in when I started the interview, so I kind of knew, oh yeah, figuring out finances and intimacy and schedules and screens and faith and in-laws and all the rest. So, and then when I pushed a little bit, I found out, you know, for every couple was different. It wasn't like every marriage had the same problems, but they generally kind of fit into these basic categories. So I just kind of wanted to dive deep with an open Bible and some practical wisdom and uh set the next couples up for awesome success.

Chris Grainger 8:06

That's awesome, man. That's so great. I mean, I really love you know how you dived into it. Obviously, we're serving Christian men at this, you know, on the line within us. And I know lots of guys really try to provide financially, and that's where we find our success. We've got the financial stewards and we can, we can and providers, if you will, but we're passive spiritually. So uh why why do you think this is a big dangerous gap that that we as men take in our homes? And I love how you address it, but just share with the guy out there who's listening right now.

Mike Novotny 8:35

Oh man.

When Work Steals Your Marriage

Mike Novotny 8:36

So I'm a brand new pastor in Madison, Wisconsin. Yeah. And there's just more ministry than I can I can handle. So we had to kind of stop doing some Spanish outreach ministry that I was doing. And this uh this guy comes at me hard and he calls me unfaithful to my call and deceptive, and I'm not serving Jesus. And he ends up bringing another kind of older pastor friend to sit down and talk with me. And I'll uh Chris, I'll never forget the conversation. I'm late 20s, brand new. I'm sitting at this table in my office, it's nighttime. And this pastor, he was pretty empathetic, but he was just trying to tell me, you know, man, this is what it is. We got to put in crazy, you got to work 80, 90, 100 hours a week to be a good pastor. And uh he's kind of giving me this speech and he he pauses right in the middle of it and he breaks down crying. Really? It's like older, pretty successful pastor in our community. And this confession comes out of him where he starts saying, you know, his his wife was the one who basically parented their children because he was a he was a married Christian pastor, but he the the church was his real family. And I'm sitting there thinking, like, I don't know, I don't know much about much, but I I think this is a really important conversation for my life. I uh 50 years from now, I don't want to be breaking down in tears thinking I neglected the bride that God gave me and the children that God entrusted to me because I was serving people who didn't even know my middle name. Right. Um I think that's tempting for guys because honestly, I I don't know what what everyone does, but I have a hunch that a successful marriage is harder than being successful at work. Yes. Hands down, more exposing, more personal. So there's always this temptation to run where it's easier and to take the path of least resistance, which is to walk away from hard conversations at home and thrive at work. And so from that day on, I just decided like, man, of course I want to be a good pastor and faithful to my call. But 50 years from now, what I want is that me and my wife break down in tears of joy over a great marriage instead of frustration of the marriage that we missed.

Chris Grainger 10:44

Man, you nailed that right there, right? I mean, we put so much of our identity in people who really could care less about us when it comes at the end of the day, right? And it's versus like, you know, the I love how you said they don't even know your middle name. That's a great way to put it.

Mike Novotny 10:58

Yeah. Yeah. My uh my pastor growing up, when I started to become a pastor, he he gave me this advice that I honestly I thought was garbage when I first heard it. I I think I laughed in his face, even though I respected him. He said, Mike, when you get to your first church, I want you to sit down at your first like church leadership meeting, and I want you to ask everyone in the room how many hours you should work. Really? Okay. And I said to him, I'm like, that sounds like the worst first impression a man can make. Like, hey, what's like the bare minimum I have to do to not make you mad? I just don't want to get fired. Right. And he said, No, no, no. Like you could work, you could work double what you should, but you're not gonna show up at like one person's pet ministry and they're gonna be frustrated with you. So just like get some mutually agreed upon expectations. So it turned into the best moment of my ministry, Chris. I I'm a fresh faced pastor. I sit down at this table, these really godly men in the room, and I I put it this way: I said, um, you know, I don't want to have to fake like I have a good marriage when I show up on Sunday with my wife. Um, I don't want anyone to have to be a hypocrite paste on a mask. I want us to deeply love each other as an example for this church. I want my kids to love organized religion and not resent it because they took their father. I want to have a good personal relationship with Jesus because I have space and margin to do it. And I want to be a faithful shepherd to this church. So if you guys run my seat, how many hours do you think you could work at church and still be a great husband and father and Christian? And to their credit, they went around the table and all of them picked a number, guy after guy after guy, and we took the average of the numbers that they gave me of like, here's what I think I could do well with this. And for the last uh 19 years, that's kind of been like a um a sweet spot for me to try to like work hard and faithfully, but not so much that I neglect these relationships that we're talking about in this book and that matter so much to God. All right. So I mean, the natural nice question is what's the number, man?

Chris Grainger 12:55

Like, where did it land? We have to know. I'll tell you, but guess first. What do you think they what do you think these guys said?

Mike Novotny 13:02

I would say between 40 and 50, somewhere like 45. Yeah, 50 was the number. 50. So 45, 55, 50. Some said 40, some said 60, but uh a good average was uh 50 faithful hours a week, not dinking around on my phone, but serving people as best I can. And for 19 years, that's that's what I've done. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 13:25

And that's it, that's still a big target. I mean, 50 hours a week doing God's work, I mean, that will wear you out. So yeah. Sound like you had good counsel right there. It's good.

Mike Novotny 13:34

Man, that's I'm glad the people that I thought weren't wise were were actually were wise. So it's really blessed me in life.

Chris Grainger 13:43

You man. Well, you had the that that that wisdom of those group of guys who were speaking to your life early in your career there. But I've noticed, you know, for lots of you know uh Christian couples when they get married, for the guys in particular, we don't have that type of wisdom uh speaking to us about a good godly marriage. And so how how are you hoping your book and your resources here and in the things that you're doing is gonna help guys at least identify that gap, right?

Mike Novotny 14:09

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Finding Brothers Who Keep You Sharp

Mike Novotny 14:11

That's so huge. I I think if I didn't have like some good guy friends in my corner, man, my my marriage could have gone off the rails a bunch of times. Right. Um we have a group, uh we call it our Supper Club. It's uh five couples. We actually got together last night, me and my wife. The Supper Club. Okay. That's it. And uh every couple, we got to go around the room and our friends say, All right, on the count of three, you gotta give your marriage a letter grade. And you can't you can't talk about it with your spouse before you get there. So you don't need to say you and your wife do it at the same time. Exact same time. One, two, three, and she says B plus, and I say A minus, or what you know, whatever it might be. Okay, okay. And kind of what we found is that obviously marriage is a hard relationship, but to have other people there that can like let you know this is a normal struggle, or bro, like don't come at her too hard because you got stuff you need to work on too. Just like good iron sharpens iron kind of accountability. Right. That, you know, if if I can talk about marriage and money and temptation, if if guys have an outlet for how you're doing with alcohol or the internet or pornography or serving your wife, or like when there's just a good, like safe Christian environment where the Bible's open and people are people of prayer, like that. I you can get off track, but you get back on track really quickly when you live in that kind of community. Most guys, I don't know. I I find a lot of guys that I minister to at church, they don't have that, but all it takes is like one vulnerable conversation with a good brother in Christ, and almost always they find it that fast. Right, right.

Chris Grainger 15:45

That's I love that, man. I love that. That's awesome that you that you that you're recognizing that you're putting those couples together and things like that. Yeah, I mean, how about you know, uh as guys start thinking about this, how do we find those types of couples and and those types of spiritual, I guess, the elders that could be speaking into our life as young married men?

Mike Novotny 16:06

Yeah, I think there's a natural affinity. I mean, if you just talk to someone, you can probably tell within five minutes of like if you're clicking or not. So I would say take the big pool of humans you interact with. Who do you just kind of like being around? And then what I found if you just invite a guy out for uh, you know, grab a cup of coffee or lunch sometime or breakfast, and and I was called like testing the waters with transparency. Yeah. So if I open up just a little bit and say, Yeah, man, marriage can be kind of tough, huh? And all almost always the response of a man to that question is gonna let me know how specific and personal and vulnerable I can be. So does he respond with with empathy, with a listening ear, with his own confession of struggle? Um most guys underestimate the number of good men in their lives that could really help them. Um, they fear being judged, they fear looking weak. But I've kind of found like when you test the water with a guy you respect, man, uh God almost always provides like a Jonathan tier David and uh a guy who can walk with you and help you do marriage, right?

Chris Grainger 17:12

100%. So guys, we're gonna take our first break with Mike. We'll be right back and keep digging into it. If there's one habit that can change a home, it's this when a husband prays with his wife. Not because it's a magic formula, but because it recenters your marriage under God's authority and care. And let's be honest. A lot of guys want to do it, but most don't know how to start without it feeling awkward. Maybe you tried it before and it felt forced, or maybe you've never tried it because you don't even know what to say. Or maybe you're thinking, man, I'm not a pastor, I'm just a guy. And that's why we created this guide. It's our how to pray with your wife. Simple guide. It's biblical, it's practical, and it's designed to help you start praying with your wife in a way that actually feels natural. So it's a five-section guide, and it gives you a simple framework to get started. Okay, it makes sure everything is grounded in scripture, and also has a powerful PDF that you can pull up whenever you need, especially when things get off, because they're gonna get off. That's normal. So this is all about reclaiming your marriage and reclaiming the spiritual leadership range of your home. Because praying with your wife is one of the strongest ways to fight for unity, to build trust, and to right to ship when life starts to pull you off a course. So if you're ready, get access today at the lionwithin.us slash guides. That's the lionwithin.us slash guides. And start unleashing the lion within at home by leading your marriage through prayer.

The Triangle That Builds Oneness

Chris Grainger 18:53

And Mike, as I was digging into the book, I mean, I love how you broke it down into different parts. Maybe just start off, why do you feel like the the you me God was the natural place to to to lay the foundation for you know any man in a marriage in in general?

Mike Novotny 19:10

Yeah. Yeah, I got married uh June 15th, 2003. There you go. I don't remember many sermons I've heard in my life, but I absolutely remember our wedding sermon. My pastor uh used that classic illustration of the marriage triangle. Do you know that one? You know, God's at the top, apex, you're down here, your wife's down here. And he just said, you know, if if Kim gets really close to Jesus, but you stay stuck spiritually, she'll be blessed spiritually, but you won't be blessed relationally. And vice versa. You might have a great faith, but if she doesn't invest herself into seeking the Lord, but if both of you do it together and it kind of traced up the sides of the triangle, as you get closer to God, the natural result is that you get closer to each other. Yes. Um, which is such a biblical thing. You know, how how do we learn to forgive even our spouse? Well, we get close to the God who's forgiven us so much. Um, are we patient when there's those like quirks we discover in the person we're married to? Well, we open our eyes to see we're pretty we're pretty flawed humans, and God is pretty jacked up ourselves. He's infinitely patient with us. So when we're both you know, you worry about so many things in marriage, but when you're both seeking God first, his kingdom and his righteousness, so many things just kind of resolve themselves because you're not just growing in like tips or tricks or hacks, you're growing in Christ-likeness. Right. You're growing in humility. And man, I've done a lot of marriage counseling in the past 19 years. I've I've never had to do crisis counseling for two humble spouses.

Chris Grainger 20:39

No point.

Mike Novotny 20:40

Never. Yeah. I mean, it's never like, oh, he he serves me too much or she's always putting me first. Like, no, it's it's just the opposite. It's when we turn inward on ourselves and we're trying to get what we want that things blow up. So, man, seeking Jesus just keeps you humble in the best way, and humility is the secret sauce of a great marriage. Yes.

Chris Grainger 20:59

Hands down. Well, I love the triangle analogy that your pastor used to. Obviously, it stuck with you and and Kim as well. I'm sure you've had seasons in your life where that triangle did get out of whack and you had to do some course correction, right?

Mike Novotny 21:12

Yes. Yeah, I've I've been to counseling twice in my life. Once was for my own addiction to pornography, and uh the second was uh uh on marriage counseling. So we were on year seven. We had two kids, two daughters 15 months apart, which was not the plan, but apparently it only takes once. And we're with you.

Chris Grainger 21:31

I got the same thing, man. I got a 15 months apart and I got 14 months apart. So right there with you, bro. Yeah.

Mike Novotny 21:38

Yeah, we were both working full time, and yeah, I mean, we we found out that you can love God and love each other, but sometimes life comes with its pressures and it kind of pulls you apart. So we had to do a kind of a big reset in learning how to how to put each other first again, how to listen to each other well. Um, for us, the the biggest struggle was intimacy. So just we were wired differently, had different expectations, and we just really had to learn about each other, about us as a couple, how to talk that through without this like tug of war trying to both get what we wanted at the same time. Um man, God was merciful. He forgave us for our sins. Um, he gave us ears to hear each other better. And, you know, now all these years later, we're we're so grateful that we're not in that spot where we were.

Chris Grainger 22:21

Yeah. Hands down, man. I'm so glad that you guys were able to work through that. I mean, and the areas you talked about, which we're gonna touch on intimacy, but you it all came back to communication, which that is the big focus of your book. And I feel like so many guys that I that comes to the lion, they're just struggling with just understanding their bride. And understand, I mean, these guys could be married for you know two or three decades and they still don't understand. Like, well, boys, we probably should have worked on this a while back. But why do you think that's is such a big gap for so so many guys and just understanding what their wife is trying to tell them and just being able to receive that and and and discern that and be able to lead well from there?

Communication That Actually Understands Her

Mike Novotny 22:59

Yeah, communication is hard, especially because you didn't. Just marry a prettier version of you. So amen to that, brother. Yeah. I mean, just people have different styles. Some people are wordy. Yeah. Some people have to talk to figure out what they think. And other people have to think a lot before they talk. Right. Um, Kim and I are kind of the opposite. I mean, we get into long arguments at night, and you know, she'd be thinking about it, kind of have her back to me, and I'd be talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking. And then like 15 minutes in, I would she would twitch and I would say, Wait, were were you sleeping during our You can't sleep while we're arguing?

Chris Grainger 23:42

You gotta stay awake for this.

Mike Novotny 23:43

I was on point 17 of this rock solid case I was making about why I was right. Yeah, but I, you know, I had to I had to learn like, okay, I I I talk a lot to figure out how I feel about something, but that can be really exhausting for a person who wants to think about everything that's said. Yeah. And, you know, just kind of, you know, getting your PhD in the person that you married. Um too many guys can win like their local fantasy football league because they pay attention to the details and they make weekly adjustments, but they they don't pay that careful attention to their bride, like what they're feeling, what they're going through, what helps them relax, what makes them feel close. I don't I don't think you need like superhuman intelligence. You just have to pay attention to the right thing. So, you know, the de the devil is so good at what he does. So he gets us really fixated on things of small value and he gets us to to kind of tune out of things that are of great value. Right. And I think how how your wife is feeling today is something of great value. If you dismiss her, man, just bit by bit and day by day, she's gonna disconnect and drift from you. Um and she might not communicate like you communicate or want what you want or desire what you desire, but that doesn't matter. It's about how can I be quick to listen and slow to speak and just show like a little glimpse of the love of Jesus to this woman that God has put in front of me. So pay attention to the right things, and I think you'll end up on the right path.

Chris Grainger 25:07

How about for like for me and my marriage, one thing we've learned recently is that my wife is ADHD. I mean, and and she and we late in life got diagnosed with it, right? So I mean, so we're really trying to figure this stuff out. But the more and more couples and guys and and Christian counselors and things that I speak with, it's it's more prevalent than than uh most people would think. And so your your spouse may have that ADHD or ADHD type of tendency. So when that happens, you know, or question, I guess maybe the question is how often are you seeing those types of things come up? Because that was off my radar of of even a thing to uh a thought of a thought. But now that I know it, you know, I've been able to study and learn, and now I, you know, and not study my wife, but I want to know her better. I want to know know how she thinks so that I can you know love her better. So are you seeing those types of things come up more often with people you're speaking with these days?

Mike Novotny 26:00

Yeah, yeah.

Chris Grainger 26:01

Just recently that very situation.

Mike Novotny 26:03

Um I see more broadly, you know, every couple and every person has something. So, you know, maybe I don't have ADHD, but I I I often talk way too much. Um, maybe someone is really caring and thoughtful, but they're super anxious. So you just have to know you didn't marry Jesus. Right, right. They have a weakness and a flaw, and you got to take the good with the bad, and you have to learn as best you can how they think so you know how to love them well. Um, that's why kind of generic advice just doesn't work. It's more about how can you communicate to such an extent that you could really express your spouse's emotions in your own words. Right. And and once they can say, yes, that's exactly how I feel, or that's why I'm that's why I'm happy, or that's why I'm frustrated, like that's the level you want to get to. I want to be able to know you so well that I can just put it in my own words and make you feel uh I know people overuse the phrase, but seen and heard and understood, like like I totally get your heart.

Chris Grainger 27:01

Yeah.

Sex Without Shame Or Shortcuts

Chris Grainger 27:02

And you also mentioned that you know there's a tension with you and Cam. You mentioned intimacy, and I hear that all the time. That's a big struggle with marriages, particularly, I mean, just your topic at hand, newlyweds, they're trying to figure out this whole thing called being married together. Then you throw this complicated, well, it could be complicated times, a topic of sex in the middle of it, and that just could be it takes the train off the rails in so many different areas. So yeah, what's what's your encouragement for guys in this area? So my how long is this podcast? Five hours? That's right.

Mike Novotny 27:36

Yeah, this is part one. Oh, you know, uh so there's two ditches we want to be careful with when it comes to sex. Um, one is, and I experienced a little bit of this, uh, a world where most sex education happens through pornography, where most of what you see and hear that shapes your beliefs about it is fictional and it's simple. I mean, that that's how porn. I was addicted to porn for over 10 years. And I think the way that it most kind of messed with my marriage was that it it taught me time and time and time again to think that sex was always going to be easy. You don't have to be patient. People aren't different, you know, in porn, everyone's always excited and has a good time. And real life is much more complex than that. Sometimes you're in the mood, sometimes you're not. Sometimes the time is right, sometimes you're not, sometimes you're communicating. Sometimes you have to do a lot of chores before your spouse is interested in giving you a kiss. It's called chore play, unofficially. So, you know, there's there's that where the world can kind of shape you. But but I think there's the a pendulum swing that's really dangerous for a lot of Christian couples, and that's you have a high view of sexual morality, but you just don't talk that much about sex. You know, you'll go a year without saying, I like that, or I didn't like that, or have you ever thought about or would you be interested in? Or it would kind of be fun if we tried this. I think, you know, a lot of couples, because they're afraid of being sexually immoral, they're kind of skittish around the topic of sex itself when when the Bible is not at all like that. Right. You know, read Song of Songs, read, I mean, it takes God what one or two pages in his holy word to talk about being fruitful and being naked and not being ashamed. So if you literally talk more about like your tax returns than your sex life, so something has gone very, very wrong. But but that's so so common. So don't be embarrassed to communicate, especially if you're a newlywed, is it going to be awkward? For sure. Is it gonna be new? For sure. Are you is it gonna be clunky as you figure each other out and your bodies and your desires? For sure. But as you keep talking about those things, what they find statistically is that older married couples have the most satisfying sex lives. Not because they were great from the start, but because through experience and trial and error, they they just learned how to serve each other well sexually. So keep those communication lines open. Don't be immoral, but don't be too embarrassed and awkward about it either.

Chris Grainger 29:56

I wonder why we don't talk about those stats right there about the older, more sexually satisfied couples and doing it God's way. I mean, I know why, because the evil one loves to distort it. He's he's attacking marriage. But I mean, the the stats that I've seen, and apparently you've seen the same ones as well, show that dissatisfaction around, you know, monogamous couples who do do do it God's way, you know, and and they're true to each other, they are the most sexually satisfied couples out there.

Mike Novotny 30:27

Yeah, uh I've spoken at like college campus groups, and I said, you know, likely the most sexually satisfied people in your family are probably like your grandparents or your old aunts and uncles, and just the gasp of disbelief of like, what? No, they're wrinkled and gray and gross. Like, right? No, no, no, no. So it must have been the world that taught you that, you know, a perfectly fit body is what makes for a good sexual experience, but it's not. It's patience and kindness and humility and sacrifice and selflessness and communication. So it you know, the world is always trying to get to pleasure through a shortcut. And no, you you end up falling into pits when you try to take the shortcut. And God's way around is long. I mean, he's pretty uh he's pretty strict and cautious and conservative when it comes to sex, but man, as you said before, it just leads to a healthier, closer bond and a good connection in the end.

Chris Grainger 31:23

Yeah. But this whole lot of the world of just getting together, living together, breaking up, and then just starting to cycle all over again. It's just it's maddening. And but now we we we're supposed to just accept that or even encourage that. When you gotta kick tires, right? You gotta take for a test ride. I'm like, no, bro, you don't. This is not a car. Like this is this is the a daughter of the king. So we need to make sure we uh we respect that the way we do. But man, it's uh I think the stats around the satisfaction, they just get underplayed way too much.

Mike Novotny 31:54

I would also want to add for people like me, um, Kim and I were virgins when we got married, but obviously I brought a lot of sexual sin, and I'm so grateful that the Bible that I love is filled with sexual sinners that God saved. So, you know, David fell, and the woman at the well fell, and the Corinthians and the Ephesians fell, and the woman caught in the act of adultery, but God shows up with amazing mercy and grace. So I bet there's a lot of guys listening who have a lot of sexual regret and sin, and just to know that the cross of Jesus is sufficient for that, and his blood purified me from all of my pornographic sins, and it's the the price he paid for your sins too.

Porn, Adultery Of The Heart, And Confession

Chris Grainger 32:34

And maybe speak to that. I mean, we don't want to harp on it, but it's it's worth speaking to the fact that there's probably guys listening. I mean, that not probably, there are guys listening who are married, probably have kids, you know, they're they're you know, they're faithful to the wife, they're not sleeping with anyone else, but they're looking at porn. And in their mind, they've they've kind of they they resolved that well, they're not physically cheating on her, therefore it's not bad. So what do you say to a guy who's kind of caught in that cycle of he's married, he he's you know, physically he's he's true to her, but he's still looking at pornography. Like what how what's your encouragement, or what will be your word there to that guy?

Mike Novotny 33:11

I think I take him back to the words of Jesus. Um, anyone who looks at another woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart. And what I've seen from I mean, because I've been so open about my struggle, I I feel like I get to minister to people struggling with pornography constantly every single week. And what you find out is that it's much more damaging than you think. You you might justify it in your head. Well, at least I'm not kissing another woman or I'm not sleeping with someone at work. But I'll tell you what, when she discovers your search history and finds out that not just have you been sexually immoral, but you've been lying to her. Yeah, you've been hiding from her. Um, she's gonna say things like, I hear wives say all the time, why am I not good enough for you? And why am I not enough for you? Why are you not attracted to me? What what else are you lying about? So please do not give the devil a foothold to think, well, it's not this really bad sin, it's just this kind of small sin. That's not at all how Jesus saw it. Yeah. And I I totally get it. Oh my goodness, I get it. But you have to practice 1 Corinthians 6 and flee from sexual immorality. And I think one of the best ways that you flee is James 5.16, that you confess your sins to one another and pray for each other. So for guys who are struggling, I've I've been there. And honestly, I had read the Bible cover to cover, I had memorized all the sexual purity passages, but the the only thing that made a notable difference in my life was telling other people. Coming out of the darkness into the light, confessing my sins, humbling myself. You know, God just used that, and it wasn't a light switch, but it was a dimmer switch that started to move in the right direction. Yeah. So I know you're scared to do it, but you you gotta do it. And a year from now you won't regret if you did.

Chris Grainger 34:56

And for you, in a position that you were in, I mean, not just to mention your marriage, having that open transparency with your wife, what made you want to take it to the next level where you talk about this openly on your platforms from the pulpit, you know, you're sharing this, and you know, some some council will be like, You're sharing too much, and some council is like, no, you need to. So, I mean, what how how did you make that decision on, you know, I gotta be open and transparent about this across the board?

Mike Novotny 35:21

Yeah. I look back and I think it's wild to think that some of the best ministry I've done in two decades has been through my own failure. Um that when I talk about my strengths, here's a look at all these books that I've read behind me. I mean, it inspires like one person. But when I'm kind of honest about my struggles, like I love God, I was in my Bible, I believed in Jesus, and yet I still fell into this temptation. That was the thing where 99 hands would raise in the air and say, Me too. And I'm I was scared to talk about it until you talked about it. So I've kind of learned, especially as a leader, that confession is like a boomerang. And that if if I play it safe, most of our church plays it safe too. But if God can give me the wisdom and the courage to talk about things in an appropriate way, of course, but in a pretty candid, vulnerable way, man. The amount of ministry that I get to do from people who just needed someone to make the first confession is profound to me. Amen.

Chris Grainger 36:22

Thank you for sharing that, Mike. I mean, hats out to you for having the courage to come forth to say that and to stand on it. So, guys, we'll take our next break with Mike. We'll be right back. It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying, This is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without condemnation. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography, it's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30-day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30-day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thelionwithin.us, and step inside the lion's den.

In-Laws, Boundaries, Leave And Honor

Chris Grainger 38:19

So the next area I thought was interesting when I was looking at your book, you you talked about in-laws. And when I did a leadership course years ago at the Lion, and in one of the parts of the leadership course under the husband section, I called it in-laws and outlaws. So when I saw yours about, you know, when your in-laws annoy you, I'm like, uh-huh. All right. We got let's let's talk about that one. So maybe high-level encouragement for a guy, maybe he doesn't. I get it, which I get along with my in-laws. I love them, but I know lots of guys don't. So just curious, what would be your message to that guy? It's like, man, you're a man, her family. Make sure you know that, bro.

Mike Novotny 38:58

You know, now that my uh my daughters are 18 and 16, and I I think I have more compassion on being an in-law than I ever did 10 years ago. Because, you know, I've invested so much into my daughters. We have our family traditions and habits. And to think that like in a couple years, there's going to be some guy maybe who swoops in. They say I do. And then suddenly he's like the primary guy in her life. Right. After I've loved, I mean, he didn't pay for her college. I did. He didn't change. Well, I've loved her and I love her so deeply. I mean, so I it helped me kind of reframe it's easy to poke at in-laws. It's easy to see them as meddling. But man, if your spouse comes from a tight-knit family that really does love each other and wants what's best and came up with their own traditions and habits and rhythms that really help them to flourish in their life as a as a family, that's no small thing to just step in and say, Well, I'm your spouse now. So I think that's why the two kind of key biblical words that we find that guide our discussion are the words leave and honor. So a man must leave his father and mother and be united to his wife. And yet the commandment honor your father and mother still applies. So I think guys tend to struggle with one or the other. Some are really good at leaving. Hey, this is my new family, my marriage. Thanks for the advice, mom and dad, but this is us now. But they can be very dishonorable. Uh-huh. I think, especially in like an American individualistic culture, that's a huge temptation. Where other people have an incredible amount of honor and respect for their parents, but they find it really hard to leave. Uh, they end up not being people pleasers, but parent pleasers. Uh-huh. And they'd rather disappoint their wife than disappoint their mother or their father. Right. And so learning to hold those two things in tension, I think, is the key. If you just leave but you don't honor, you lose the relationship. And if you just honor, but you don't leave, you damage the relationship with your spouse. So hold holding those two is kind of the secret sauce that we're trying to get to. Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Grainger 40:59

Yeah, I mean, that's that's important for sure. I mean, I tell guys now, you know, if your wife comes from a tight-knit family, she has a good relationship with her mother, and they talk on the phone. That's a good thing. Like, don't discourage that. You know, I mean, we got to make sure we set the right boundaries and things like that in place. And that's a conversation between you and your spouse. But, you know, don't look down on that or try to try to disrupt that. Because I think I've just seen where that's it's so helpful just to have that in place for her.

Mike Novotny 41:26

Yeah, and invest in that. If she's close to her mom, try to get close to her mom. Invite her up for coffee, get to know her, ask her questions. I have a hunch, man, she'll love you more and your wife will love you more for loving her mother more. Right. A threat or a competition, see as an opportunity to connect.

Chris Grainger 41:43

Well,

Date Night As A Weekly Lifeline

Chris Grainger 41:43

I know the last part of your book you talk about is something that just hits hits me in my heart because this is what I preach to guys all the time. And I get eye rolls a whole lot, but I'm just telling the guys, I'm like, little boy, you why you you could clean your truck up and get dressed up, and you made the time when you were trying to pursue her, but now that you're, you know, you put a wing uh ring on it, all of a sudden, like you're too too busy to go out on a date, or you got these little munchkins running around and they're grabbing at your ankles all day long, and and you gotta take care of them. And I'm like, no, bro, like you got to make this a priority of having a date night and and get it into as a rhythm. And so why did you put that chapter in there? What was what was God calling on you? I just feel like this is so overlooked in the Christian community. We gotta, we gotta date our spouses, man.

Mike Novotny 42:30

Yeah, that's the key. I have a little uh I should show you on my phone. I have a file. I never let my wife see it. It's called dude D-U-W-D. It stands for date until we die. And every time Kim says something like, Oh, I want to try this restaurant, or she's interested in a gift, or we could vacation to this place. I secretly pull up my phone and I write down, like, I'm studying my wife. Like, what how can I date her until the day that we die? And we kind of built into the rhythm of our life. We we had a Bible study we went to kind of early on that gave this general framework for healthy marriages. Um, the pastor said, You should talk like every day, just have like a real no phones, face-to-face conversation, talk every day, date every week, yeah, get out of town every quarter, like a night out somewhere, and vacation every year. Right. Just you and her, right. Yeah. And that's a like that's a pretty aggressive plan. We definitely haven't uh been 100% on doing it, but man, especially the dating every week. We found even if it was a busy week, even if the kids were crazy, if we just had a set thing in our calendar that our friends and family knew about, like we're not working, we're not saying yes to going out with friends. No, Friday night is our night. And it just would always help us reconnect, communicate. Uh often intimacy was best when we knew it was coming. So you just, you know, you get excited about it on the way. So, man, I uh I would have to write a big check, or someone would have to write me a big check to give up date night. It has just been a lifeline to our marriage, and I I can't imagine uh being married without it.

Chris Grainger 44:03

We've had to shift hours too, Mike. Because I mean we have we have four kids, we have a farm, we have a lot of a lot of entrepreneurial things happening. So the weekend actually is our busy times for us, you know, the business pick for riding lessons for our horses, and I mean it's a it's a whole thing, right? So but we have said, okay, all right, babe. So if we can't, Friday nights and Saturday nights are not really optional for us anymore, what is? We we got to figure this out. So now it's Monday, you know, and and so we're starting this new rhythm where you know what our date nights are gonna be Monday nights, and and and you know, so we're just getting into that, but it took a level of of like intentionality on my behalf and her behalf to to recognize, you know what, the weekend stuff, there are a lot of variables, particularly when you got smaller kids like we do. So we we we are figuring out this rhythm for us. So I mean, I don't know, and I I just want to share that for the listener because like you get stuck in you said Friday nights is your night, that's impossible for us. So figure What's work what can work for you, you know? I love that.

Mike Novotny 45:05

There's like a I think every marriage should have like a state of the union, state of the marriage. Like just once a year, just talk about all the big things. It might be how's our dating life? How's our intimacy? How's our budget? How are we doing with the kids? What about chores? And like just say, I mean, maybe you can give it a letter grade. I'm feeling great about chores. Well, I feel like I do more around here. And that'll just like um give you the conversations that you need to talk about so you can adjust, make those corrections that you're talking about, and step into the next season with a lot of mutual excitement.

Chris Grainger 45:35

Amen, brother. I mean, what's your hope? You put this all the effort into writing a book like this. What's your ultimate hope at the end of the day for couples out there who pick this up? Or maybe even I think this is a great wedding present by far. Like, I can't think of stop giving freaking toasters and give something like this, you know. So, what's your thoughts on you know, what's your hope out of this, bro? I'm glad you said that.

Mike Novotny 45:58

Do you want to know the real, the real first domino in this book project? Sure. I'm putting on my tie, going to a wedding, and I say to Kim, like, what do we get in the couple? She's like, Oh, I don't know. Should we just pick something off the registry, write them a check? And we did that so many times, it just felt like, oh, like we love them, we love God, we want them to love God. And that's where this book came from. I'm like, I wish you could just give like a crash course on how to start marriage right. And uh that that's why we put the book together the way we did to be wedding giftable. So yeah, I'd hope people could buy a stack, take them to every wedding you go to, uh, and bless people for the years to come.

Chris Grainger 46:34

Amen to that, brother. Amen. Well, you've done a great job with it, and hats off to you. I know it's gonna bless many couples out there. And hey, before we wrap up, I'd love to have a little lightning round with you, just have a little bit of fun at the end of this podcast. Let's go. All right, let's go, let's go. So, what's your favorite hobby? What do you enjoy doing for fun, Mike? I love reading, running, and I've played soccer since I was four years old. Okay. So running, are you a trail runner? Are you running at the gym? Like, what where are you enjoying that at? Yeah, I've run four marathons, so I hit the streets.

Mike Novotny 47:04

Often Kim and I run like a 10-mile run together, which is another hack for communication because on 10 miles, you can talk about everything. That's right. Yeah, plenty of time to talk about it. And if you feel like you're losing an argument, just run a little bit faster so they get out of breath.

Chris Grainger 47:20

That's the you know, that's the secret trick right there. Now we now when you finish running, when you and Kim finish running, what's your go-to food? What's what's your guilty pleasure there, Mike?

Mike Novotny 47:32

Oh, I make a mean breakfast. Okay. I always make an egg scramble. Um, I have a secret recipe where I just put a bunch of string cheese in a pan, flip it once, put it on sourdough toast, it'll change your life. I eat it almost every day.

Chris Grainger 47:46

Man, let's go. All right. Love it, love it. Well, if you could have a superpower, you know, we got all the Marvel movies and different types of comic books and things like that that are out there. So if you could have one of those superpowers, which one would you pick, Mike, and how would you use it?

Mike Novotny 48:01

It would be a mute button that I could push so I wouldn't talk as much and get myself in trouble. That's pretty funny. Would your wife want to be able to control that too? No, it's a code, it's a fingerprint-sensitive code that she can't use.

Chris Grainger 48:18

Only your discretion only. Got it, got it. I love it. What about uh any habits? Any new habits you started recently that have been? It could be a health habit or a face hat, whatever it may be that you enjoyed that you want to share?

Mike Novotny 48:31

Yep. So I've been cheating the dietary system for about 40 years, um, double fisting donuts, eating candy after every single meal. And finally, when I got into my 40s, I found out that I'm not an exception to the metabolism rule. Right, right. And my wife had she's been going to a gym in our community that she has loved. Uh, for years she was trying to talk me into coming. And about nine months ago, I finally joined her gym. And I don't know if she'll listen to the podcast, but I gotta say, she was right. Uh it worked. So, yeah, lifting weights is something I put off far too long. I stayed skinny because of metabolism, but it gets real when you hit uh hit 40 or 45.

Chris Grainger 49:09

Amen, bro. Amen. Well, keep keep lifting heavy things, and you can't go wrong when doing that. So when you think about God, man, what what's your favorite thing about him, Mike?

Mike Novotny 49:21

Psalm 84, uh, better is one day in God's courts than a thousand elsewhere. Um, I think about like, man, you make it to the ocean, or you're hiking in a mountain, or you got one of those beautiful Midwestern days when the leaves are changing colors, or you have great sex with your wife, or you hold your kid in your arms, and a thousand of those days put together is not as joyful as one day of seeing God's face. So if if God was lame, heaven would be unexciting. But the fact that I get to see a God that's better than my wife and my kids and my ministry and soccer and food, like I I cannot wait for the first millisecond when I see the face of Jesus.

Chris Grainger 50:02

Amen to that, brother. Amen. And now let's flip the 180. What's your least favorite thing about the evil one?

Mike Novotny 50:08

Oh man. He's good at his job. Amen to that, brother.

Chris Grainger 50:13

Yeah.

Mike Novotny 50:13

He uh he knows how to pivot. He he fishes with one bait, and then when you stop biting, he he knows how to change it up. Um so you just you you can never put your your gloves down. Uh I escaped an addiction, but it doesn't mean I stopped sinning. So he he just changed his approach and just to know I gotta I gotta fight that battle till my last breath. That's sobering but necessary. Amen. Amen. What do you hope the listeners remember the most from our time together today, Mike? I I hope in a sense that there's uh a holy intensity to do marriage right as fast as you can. And I hope it's balanced with uh the grace of Jesus, knowing that we're gonna stumble and fall, that marriage is gonna challenge us and push us, and to know the cross always gets the last word, even when we sin against our spouse. Right. So I hope that they step into it with like passion to be the best husband they can be, knowing that at the end of the day that grace gets the last word. Amen, brother.

Chris Grainger 51:12

Where do you want to send the listeners to connect with you, to get the book, all that fun stuff?

Mike Novotny 51:17

Yeah, there's this little boutique uh bookstore we have in Wisconsin. It's called Amazon. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 51:22

So if you go to Amazon.com, best place to find newlywed. There you go, brother. There you go. A any social media for you that you want to shout out for guys that they want to follow you, Facebook, Instagram, anything like that? Yeah.

Mike Novotny 51:34

So I'm the lead speaker for a media ministry called Time of Grace. If you go to uh Time of Grace on uh on YouTube, on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, or time of grace.org, uh you can find this. Is actually book number 40 that I've written. So if you want to find out some other things that I've written, you can find those all at time of grace.org. I don't know why you're so lazy, Mike.

Chris Grainger 51:53

I mean, come on, pick up the pace. Sorry. I loved it. I loved it, man. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Anything else you'd like to share today? No, man, this was an honor. Thanks for having me. Thank you for your time today, brother. Have a great day. You too. All right,

Grace-Fueled Closing And Next Steps

Chris Grainger 52:09

guys. I told you it's gonna be a phone. I was so thankful for Mike for coming on, coming on. Go get the book. And by the way, we mentioned it at the end. Great wedding present. I'm serious. Great wedding present, guys. Another great wedding present. We didn't talk about it with Mike, but my buddy Jay, oh J D over at Uncovering Intimacy, he has a newlywed package, and you can give this as a wedding gift. And I actually did this. I gave this to a gift to a brother in Christ. And what he does is every month he works with them. He does a coaching session with the newlyweds. You want to talk about something that's gonna blow a toaster and a mixer out of the out of the wedding gift box uh basket, you drive something like a book like this and a resource like from JD at Uncovering Intimacy, you just set yourself apart, guys. And I'm gonna tell you what, you're setting that couple up for success as well. So look, the lion, we're trying to give you resources to help you bless others as well. So use them, use them. So if you got some weddings coming up, don't just be passive and ask your wife, like, when's the wedding? Like, hey, I want to know when the wedding is because I got something, I got the gift. And just take, just take ownership of it, bro, and then see how God blesses that, all right? So anyway, guys, you find all those resources, newlywed, Mike mentioned it on Amazon, go get a copy of it. And so the question of the week is how are you helping your brother guard his marriage? Uh fellas, I don't know what you're doing, but we all got brothers in Christ. And if we're not taking intentional efforts to help each other grow in our marriages, we're missing an opportunity to be condos of grace and to help each other strengthen the marriages that we need to strengthen. Okay, so really think about that. And think about who God has laid on your heart and impressed upon you to support. All right, fellas. So look, if you like the show, give us a rating review. That would help big time. The Lion Within Us Ministry is just growing, fellas. If you want to be a supporter of what we're doing, go to the LionWithin.us donate. We need your support. We'd love to have it. It takes a lot of work, a lot of effort. We're pumping out three podcasts a week. We're pumping out plans on the Bible app. We got video content coming out. We have so many things that we're building. Books. I got the next book that I've written. I'm just trying to nonstop to help serve you and equip you to be the leader that God intends you to be. Not who intends Chris to be. This is a line within us. We and uh we're here to serve you, fellas. So help support us. If you find any encouragement what we do, be one of our supporters. Jump on the weekly roar. Just get that weekly newsletter we send out, fellas. We got a lot of good feedback on that one because it's just a simple way to put some encouragement in your in your inbox as you get your week started. Okay? All right, guys, that's it. Give us a rating and review. We'll see you next time. Can't wait for your member spotlight. Have a great day. Get after it and just keep on leasing and line within. Trying to find genuine resources to help grow spiritually can feel overwhelming. At least it was for me. For the longest time, the support that I was looking for didn't exist. And I knew I wasn't alone. And at the same time, God was leading me to take action. That's why we built the Lion Within Us community, which is simply a place for Christian men to grow together in an honest, practical way that's always rooted in God's Word. We've made it simple. We have our daily spiritual kickoff for that little boost to get you going. We have Bible studies focusing on discerning truth and applying it. And we have a private forum where you can speak freely amongst other guys who listen. And then we have things like Friday Forge, Couples Night, where we cut tackle the hard items that guys are craving to talk about, but most face settings just refuse to explore these areas. So our community is about a growth mindset, intentionality, and transparency. Simply put, leave the mask at the door and come as you are. No perfect resume, just a willing heart and a desire to lead. I believe in what we've built simply because I've seen God use it to strengthen so many men. And I'd be honored to walk alongside you. So if you're ready, visit the LionWithin.us to explore the community. Start your free trial. Look around and see how this could help you lead with clarity and courage. So your journey begins here at thelionwithin.us. I look forward to seeing you inside the den.