Welcome And Scripture Kickoff

Chris Grainger 1:27

Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders, God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, spiritual kick all time. Let's get into it. Okay, so scripture week this week, 2 Timothy chapter 1, 5th verse. It says, For I'm mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelled in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice. And I am sure that it is in you as well. So, guys, I took some time. I unpacked that verse at length in our spiritual kickoff episode. So go back one in your podcast feed. Hopefully you enjoy that. It's all about simplifying and applying God's word into our life so that we can, you know, be the men and the leaders that he intends us to be, guys. So I hopefully encouraged by that. If you like the daily podcast, if you like the spiritual kickoff podcast, rather, we do it Monday through Friday at the Lion Within Us. It's called Daily SKO, Daily Spiritual Kickoff. It's free. It's our way. We love just to encourage you, to walk with you, just to give you an encouragement of God's word Monday through Friday. If you can make the live feed, that's great. If you can't make the live feed, we play we post those videos in the space for you. You can consume them at your leisure. It also gives you access to our app as well as our prayer meeting that we have and our prayer group that we have. And so the prayer meeting happens on Mondays, but the prayer group is 247-365. You put a you share a prayer request, it gets lifted up. It's that simple, guys. And if you're in the continental U.S., we love to send you a free gift just to say thank you, just to encourage you and hopefully just you put a smile on your face. So again, guys, thelionwithin.us is where you find the the link to join the daily spiritual kickoff. So just go do that right now.

Daily Spiritual Kickoff And Community

Chris Grainger 3:10

All right. So this episode is going to be fun, particularly for your dads out there, okay? When we're talking about raising spiritually strong kids. So I brought in Dr. Charles Fay. He's an internationally recognized author, consultant, public speaker. He's a president of Love and Logic Institute, okay? So which became part of the American Clinics in 2020. So he's really big on helping uh these families learn and grow, particularly when it comes to the gospel. He's got this new book out, Raising Spiritual Strong Kids, and it's designed to help parents lead a strong foundation of faith by applying, okay, biblically based principles alongside love and logic parenting strategies. So this guy, it gets very practical, it gets very uh applicable, if you will. So this is going to be really addressing the real concerns that we have as parents today, like if they're questioning their faith or if they're resisting church or just the schedules that we live today as parents, it's a big deal whatsoever. You know, that's that's such a big deal and screens and technology. We have all these hurdles and things that are coming our way. So Dr. Charles has a great job of unpacking this one. So I really enjoyed the conversation with them. Hopefully, you will too. So sit back and enjoy this one with Dr. Charles Fay. Well, Charles, welcome to The Line Within Us. How are you doing today, sir?

Dr. Charles Fay 4:31

I'm doing great. I'm so thankful to be here, honored to be here, and uh excited to talk about this book that I did.

Chris Grainger 4:41

Yeah. Hey, man, it's an exciting thing, a

Meet Dr. Charles Fay

Chris Grainger 4:44

great, great accomplishment. And before we get into the book, maybe tell the listeners out there something fun about you that maybe not many people know about.

Dr. Charles Fay 4:53

Well, you know, I am I'm a country boy. I I grew up uh in the in the woods of Colorado, and uh, you know, I've been traveled around the the world, but I I I just you just can't keep get the country out of a kid when when you grow up there. So that's something I have three boys who have uh have made me a better man. I have to tell you, uh it has been uh a challenge. So if any of you men are out there thinking, wow, you know, I'm supposed to be tough, but I don't feel I got this little kid. He's like this big who brought me to my knees, man. I I really do believe that's one of the reasons God gives us kids is humbles us and makes us makes us better man. So if you're if you're at the end of your rope, uh you're not alone, and there's hope. There's hope at the end of the rope. That's what I like to say.

Chris Grainger 5:47

Amen, brother. Yeah, I got my I got three daughters, and then God gave me a boy. And uh yeah, so he's been a challenge, man. He's only three, but uh man, three going on like 30, I think. But anyway, he's full of it.

Dr. Charles Fay 6:01

Three-year-olds are amazing, you know. And there's this myth. I mean, it is a total lie that the terrible tunes. I mean, no, I think it's three. In fact, I talked to a mom at church yesterday. I was like, How's that little guy you got? They always sit in front of us, and and she's like, Oh, I thought we were over it when he when we you know, I thought two was rough, but three. I'm like, man, I said, Yeah, three is great, but you know what they're doing is they're just they're just branching out and they're like, Okay, let's see if I can run the world. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And uh your job is to show them that they don't but do it in a loving way. That's really that's yeah, that's what it's about.

Chris Grainger 6:44

That's it. That's it. My little guy, I'm just trying to like, because we're on a farm, just keep them alive because it's doing sometimes just very questionable. But yeah, that's been a it's been a daily challenge sometimes, but it's nothing like it, absolutely nothing like it.

Dr. Charles Fay 6:59

Oh, it's it's amazing, yeah, yeah. I remember those days having three boys uh out in the country. Uh we have we have lots of tools, yeah, yeah, and lots of danger. And I tell you what, you know, there's nothing that is better because, in my opinion, uh something I have to say to myself as a man, honestly, is to I want to live life good and and risky. Good mean that I'm honoring God. I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm praying to him for the strength, the grace, the power to to be the kind of man he wants me to be, because that comes from him. That doesn't come from inside me, right? Praying to him that that he would give me that uh and that I would respond, but in ways where I would I would I would push the limits a bit, you know, for his glory. Yeah instead of being so safe all the time.

Chris Grainger 8:01

Right, right, 100%, 100%. Well, hats off to you. Sounds like you have a lot of experience, and and that's probably what led you to to putting the effort into putting a project like this together, raising spiritually strong kids.

Why He Wrote The Book

Chris Grainger 8:14

So what what did God lay on your heart to make you want to go down this project and putting it together in this format?

Dr. Charles Fay 8:21

Well, honestly, I I've written uh written a number of books over the years. I say accidentally. It wasn't. Nothing's an accident. God's got everything under control, but it definitely wasn't something I set out to do. Uh I had written some other books and a publisher, uh editor from Tyndale, uh Jan, she calls me. She says, What do you what do you think about writing this this book that's just really overtly gospel focused, you know, about parenting? And and that was my response. I'm not good enough to do that, you know. So here's the pride, right? Okay, right? So it's like first thing I'm thinking about is I don't, I don't, I'm not smart enough. I, you know, I didn't I didn't go to seminary. Uh and I I can be a real rascal, I'm telling you. And and so I said to Jan, I said, I I I don't know. I I I said, yeah, that that sounds awesome. I'm so honored, but I just don't know. And so I I prayed about it a lot. I kept saying, Lord, uh you know, shut this thing down if it's not what you want. And uh I just just he just kept just kept pushing. And so uh I just kept saying to myself, and this is what I I say to guys, is I say, you know, Christ, he he said to his his man, he said, I'm I'm the vine, and you're the branches. Right. Okay. Let's get that straight. Okay, first of all, I'm the source, Christ is, he says, and I'm the vine, you're the branches. Whoever abides in me and me in him, he it is who bears much fruit. Um because apart from me, you can do nothing. Okay. Um so that that's how the book got started. So basically, I went to prayer. I said, Lord, I got nothing. I'm gonna write this thing. And uh he's just carried me along. I I I do have a lot of experience working with kids. I have three boys, uh, they're all they're all men now. Uh I've been uh I'm originally trained as a a psychologist. I've been training parents, teachers, anybody who's interested for uh almost almost four decades uh now, all over the world, uh written a number of books. So I I've done some things, but right uh again, it's all it's all in the book. Let's nail it down. Um I said to Jan, I said, okay, I'll write the book. Okay. I'm scared, but I think it's a good place to be sometimes, right? Right. I said, I'll write the book, but it's not gonna be a self-help book. Right. There are just too many of those. And guys, we love those self-help books. I mean, I love going down to the the big box home improvement store and getting stuff, uh, tools and just the smells of those places. You know, the wood, and and you know, like you get a little 90-weight oil smell, you go by the the autopart store on the way, you got it all. You got it all. Um little two-stroke, maybe a little bit on the way, dirt bike in front of you. Yeah, you got it all, right? But you get in there and you think I can do it myself. Yeah. And I mean that somebody I mean, sometimes that's real dangerous because when you're really good at stuff. Like like my dad is he's 90, he's 92, and he's still good at stuff, man. The dude can fix anything. And um so I'm talking with him and I'm like, man, you're good at fixing stuff. He says, Yeah, I had to pull myself up by the bootstraps, you know, he's a depression error guy. He's a tough guy. But yeah, you can fix anything. He's like, Yeah, I can fix anything. How about your how about your problem with sin?

Chris Grainger 12:33

Yeah, that's right.

Dr. Charles Fay 12:38

Well, what is he talking about? Well, you can't you can't do it. Yeah. And and that's the the real message of the book is that uh, yeah, I put in a lot of practical skills for parenting. You know, it like God wants us to have some skills, He wants us to do things and be good at them. Uh, but where does that that strength, that that the ability to do anything, where does that come from?

Chris Grainger 13:05

Right. And I love how you talk about the practicability of the two, the and the application. I mean, I'm literally wearing a shirt that says simplify and apply, because I mean this is what I talk about at the lion all the time. That just let's take God's word, let's apply it to our life. So

See Your Kids In Daily Life

Chris Grainger 13:19

if you start talking about this topic here, you you make the point that spiritual formation happens in those ordinary, the daily interactions that we have. You know, so what does that look like practically for a busy guy who's trying to run a home and provide and do all the stuff that we're called to do as men? See him. See him.

Dr. Charles Fay 13:42

See him. Let them see that you see them. Your kids. Man. I mean, how many people don't feel seen? Yeah. You know, and and that to me, that is one of the the most one of the most amazing character attributes of God is he sees us, he is with us. I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. I will fear no evil, for you are with me, right? You're with me. I know you're with me, God. You see everything about me, and that is that's scary, okay? Yeah, like he knows, but he cares enough to know.

Chris Grainger 14:20

Right. Right.

Dr. Charles Fay 14:23

And and you know, so so much of our lives we put into doing, doing, doing. We're gonna produce, we're gonna produce, we're gonna provide. It's all good stuff, but do you take the time to just stop and and look at your kids and spend quiet time with them? I mean, just just it doesn't have to be like these these long, intense periods of time, but when they get up in the morning, are you are you locking eyes on them and saying, son, I love you? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Are you not that? It's like, no, I mean it. Yeah. I actually like you too. That that's the main thing, kid. Now there are times.

Chris Grainger 15:04

Yeah, well, depending on the day, depending on the day, yeah.

Dr. Charles Fay 15:07

Right. But but that that's huge because you when you see people acting out, you know, you see kids acting out, it's all about look at me, daddy, see me, daddy, daddy, daddy, look at me, look at me. I I'm watching this guy at a baseball game. I'm I'm trying to watch my son, one of my sons play. And this guy from the opposing team, and I actually sat next to him, which is I, you know, I'm I'm trying to be more Christ-like. So I actually sat next to the guy from the opposing team, a parent, and I smiled at him, and and we built this little relationship, but I'm watching him, and he's trying to watch his boy too. And uh, but his little girl's under the bleachers, she's about three, and she got a stick, and she's in the dirt. What else do you need? Right?

Chris Grainger 15:54

Right.

Dr. Charles Fay 15:55

And so she's just doing something. I don't know what it is, but it's big in her mind. She's like, Daddy, daddy, look at me. And he's looking down there. Then he's trying to watch this boy, and he just keeps looking down there and he says, I see you. That's all he said. I see you. And he smiled at her, and he just that look of like, I see you, man. And that's that's how I imagine Jesus is looking at it. Say, I see you, man. I see you. And and she just kept, she was just glowing under there. I said, What is she doing? He says, I have no idea. It looks safe. And she's not poking anybody in the eye with that stick, so I think we're good, right? Right. Um but yeah, I would say that that is the number one thing uh is being seen. And and then everything flows from that.

Chris Grainger 16:50

Right.

Dr. Charles Fay 16:51

Because when I s when I see my kids, I know what's going on with them enough to be able to set the limits they need.

Chris Grainger 17:00

Fair. Exactly. Love that answer. I mean, it's so simple too. I mean, it's something we over we overlook in our busy days, just taking the time just to let the just to be face to face, eyeball eyeball with them. And man, so love that, Charles.

Dr. Charles Fay 17:17

You know, he he sees us and he still loves us. 100%. That's why I wrote the book, because to me, I'm just I'm just maybe not all that lovable, but and he looks down as he says, he says, you know, man, you're you're my workmanship. Right. You're my masterpiece. Amen. Love it. Love it, guys. We'll take a No, go ahead, y'all.

Chris Grainger 17:53

Let's finish it all.

Dr. Charles Fay 17:56

If if we're gonna have this be gospel focus, we gotta be basking in God's grace.

Chris Grainger 18:02

Right.

Dr. Charles Fay 18:02

It doesn't mean that we're abusing that grace. But we're basking it and we're saying, I'm loved, man. That's that's who I am.

Chris Grainger 18:11

Right. Love it.

Lion Within Us Community Break

Chris Grainger 18:13

Love it. You guys take our first break with Dr. Charles, be right back. Trying to find genuine resources to help grow spiritually can feel overwhelming. At least it was for me. For the longest time, the support that I was looking for didn't exist. And I knew I wasn't alone. And at the same time, God was leading me to take action. That's why we built the Lion Within Us community, which is simply a place for Christian men to grow together in an honest, practical way that's always rooted in God's word. We've made it simple. We have our daily spiritual kickoff for that little boost to get you going. We have Bible studies focusing on discerning truth and applying it. And we have a private forum where you can speak freely amongst other guys who listen. And then we have things like Friday Forge, Couples Night, where we kind of tackle the hard items that guys are craving to talk about, but most face settings just refuse to explore these areas. So our community is about a growth mindset, intentionality and transparency. Simply put, leave the mask at the door and come back you are. No perfect resume. Just a willing heart and a desire to lead. I believe in what we've built simply because I've seen God use it to strengthen so many men. And I'd be honored to walk alongside you. So if you're ready, visit thelionwithin.us to explore the community. Start your free trial. Look around and see how this could help you lead with clarity and courage. So your journey begins here at thelionwithin.us. I look forward to seeing you inside the den.

Feeling Unqualified As A Dad

Chris Grainger 20:03

So I'd love I'd love to keep digging into this with you, Charles, on this thought and this idea of these raising spiritually strong kids because just reading that title, quite frankly, if I'd have read that title five years ago, I probably would have had a lot of anxiety and stress and knots in my stomach because I wouldn't feel qualified. Like I'm not a pastor, I didn't go to seminary. Like what are you talking about? Like the children's pastor and the youth pastor, you know, and all the stuff at the church, that's where my kids learn the spirituality stuff. So, what do you what's this this craziness that you're telling me that I'm supposed to raise spiritually strong kids? That's how I would have thought five years ago. So, and I'm sure there's guys right now who are listening, but they're thinking that right now, Charles. So, what's what's your message to that to that guy?

Dr. Charles Fay 20:51

Oh, my message to that guy is you're right. Well, we can't. I'm not, I'm not okay. So that's really encouraging. I want to encourage everybody to say we don't have what it takes. You know, I don't have what it takes. Chris doesn't have what it takes, you know. It's like, you know, and and that's that's the first step. It's like realizing I don't, I don't, I don't have what it takes, but but Christ does, man. We get his we get our our power to do it through him. And man, he loves our kids so much that he's just he's gonna empower us if if we just just get out of ourselves and say, okay, God, what what are the bare bones, most basic things that God wants me to do to bring glory to you? Right. When we do that, we are, in my opinion, performing the pure form of evangelism. So the first step is is again, it's like I'm I'm not capable, but God, you are, and you're gonna work through me and you're gonna do amazing things. So for me, it came down to I I one of the problems I have is I got too much information in my head, and not all of it's good. Because I'm a psychologist, let's be honest. I got brainwashed for quite a while. It's like there's all this junk, right? Right, and not all of it's truth. God's true, right? So I I had this neighbor in South Carolina, and I'm just going crazy with my little boy, the youngest one. I couldn't get him to eat in the country buffet. I mean, it was just a nightmare. Um just saying, I don't know what to do. And she said, Oh, you're just getting yourself all locked up. That's always yo, yo locked up. What? And she said, You just God, God is the best parent. He's he's strong and he's loving. And if you can do those two things, you're gonna you're gonna be okay. She's just telling me all this. And I'm like, dang. She doesn't have a doctorate, she didn't go to seminary, she doesn't have, you know, she hasn't done years of research on child resilience, and she's like. I think she's right. And I had these little conversations with this older lady who lived next door. And I'm like, what does it look like to be strong? She says, you know, you know, it's is you set the limits and you show them you can handle stuff without falling apart. And and then the whole time you're communicating to them, you know, you're just the apple my eye kid. Yeah. So so what does that look like? It's you're in the store and the kid says, I want something. Now there's a lot of psychological strategies for dealing with things like that. And you know, sometimes you just say, Oh no, I love you, and the answer's no, son. Right. Well, that's not fair. Could be. But you're you're selfish. Could be. And answer is no. And you know, I remember my dad, he was great. I said, I don't like when you say no. He says, I know. But I say it anyway, because no is good practice for life. There you go. But let's think about this. Okay, let's get let's get some deep theology. You know, it's like, yeah, there has to be a certain fear of the Lord. I mean, there has to be reverence. There has to be, Lord, you're in charge, I'm not. Okay. And if I buck you, if if I fight you, it ain't gonna end well at all. It's gonna be bad. Yeah. Because of me, not because of you, Lord. You're good, but not me. So there has to be that fear, it has to be that sense of I'm not the one who's in control. Right. And that's why kids need limits so much. They they need to have the realization that they're not in control of the home, and they're not in control of this grand universe. They didn't create it, they don't run it. Mm-hmm. So, friends, what we're doing here is we're getting really simple.

Strong And Loving Parenting Basics

Dr. Charles Fay 25:34

The book is really simple. It's about being it's about being strong, and it's about being loving at the same time. Trying to emulate God's character with our kids in daily life situations. So saying no to the kid in the store and saying, I love you, to me is is is part of preaching the gospel. It's like we don't always get, we don't always get what we want. We don't get to go out there and do whatever we want. And there are consequences for sin. There are real consequences for sin. We step outside of God's know there's going to be big consequences, and we all do. Now that's the big problem. That's the gospel challenge. That's the bad news. Right. 100%. So understanding the bad news is how we truly appreciate the good news of Jesus Christ. The bad news is we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. And the wages of sin are death. Eternal. It's bad. I mean, it's worse than that. We can't even imagine how bad it is. See, the good news is that Christ took all that sin on himself. He died on the cross for our sins. That's a

Bad News And Good News Gospel

Dr. Charles Fay 26:54

gift. Didn't have to do it. He did it anyway, because he loves us. And he rose again on the third day to give us life. So evangelism requires the bad news. The bad news is you don't you don't get to do whatever you want to do. And when you do, which we all do from time to time, there's bad consequences and it's way worse than not getting that candy bar in the store. God damn right. Right. It's real. So the book talks about that. We cannot hide the bad news from our kids. Now that's a pretty blake picture. But then when we look at what Christ did for us, man, now that's that's the hope. We got that right. You know, it's like, I have no hope without him. And that that's the motivation. That's the motivation for how we raise our kids, how we treat our wives, how we how we deal with everything. Is that gospel motivation? It's that that bad news, and it's the that incomprehensibly great good news of what Christ did for us. Right. So getting real practical, the kids, let's let's just say the kid has just been incredibly difficult in the story. You know, dad's like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a good husband. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the kids out so long, give mom a break. And then you realize how much you love your wife because how the kids are acting, right? But like, man, she does a lot more than I realized. She does I've forgotten how hard this is. So you're out there, and and they're just and you're trying to say no and you're doing a good job of it, but it's wearing on you, and then and then being able to be in the car with them and look in the river mirror, catch a glint of their eye and say, you know what, man, I just love you, kid. Man, that wasn't real great if still liked it, but man, I tell you what, I just love you. You're the greatest gift to me. Mm-hmm. You know, one of the cons, one of the concepts I I do you see the connection though? It's like the hard times, you know, and then it's like that that love. Because you know, it's that's what Christ does for us. It's like I have rebelled against him. I I had rebelled, I continue to rebel at times by not trusting, by worrying about everything, by trying to do everything myself, you know. And he just keeps looking at me and he says, I just love you.

Chris Grainger 29:53

Man, what about the dad out there? Maybe who's like he's he gets that piece, but maybe he struggles with the discerning between grace and accountability, you know, and and trying to be a dad because you don't want to be too permissive, but at the same time, you don't want to be controlling. And so so how do you how do you balance or wrestle with that or encourage

Grace With Accountability Balance

Chris Grainger 30:14

the guys who struggle in those areas, Charles?

Dr. Charles Fay 30:17

Um so so yeah, so the question is okay, we we kind of get it. We okay, permissiveness is bad. It's not grace. Permissiveness is not kindness, permissiveness is is quite frank, frankly, just harshness. Yeah. Like you get permissive with your kids, they don't know where to go in life, they're in turmoil all the time. The research is very clear about that. Kids who are raised without limits, you know, this whole like just do whatever you want parenting doesn't work. It creates kids who have massive anxiety, depression, and they they look for God's substitutes everywhere. Like I'm so empty, I never had that that guidance. So, so where can I find an idol to worship? Okay. The effect of the other extremists is the same. That's the crazy thing. It's like that legalism, it's like you're gonna do what I tell you to do, and if you don't do it, I know that kind of thing, same deal. It's an emptiness. So people ask me, uh, for years, they said, Well, how do I find that middle point there? And I'm like, I said, I don't know. I said, I I really not sure I've ever completely found that myself, but I can give you, I can give you some thoughts on it. Okay. Okay. And and first of all, I want to say that it's a wrestling. I love that terminology, it's a wrestling. You're wrestling with it. Sometimes you're gonna end up maybe being a little over, you know, like maybe not strong enough. Okay, and then there's other times where maybe you're a little too strong. Right? And you're and you're always wrestling with that. Lord, you know, again, screaming out to him, Lord, help me with this. The answer is Christ. You answered all these questions, is Jesus. So you're going to him first, and you're saying, Help me, help me find that place with this particular kid, because this kid's different than the other other six I have. Okay, they're all different. Okay. Something that I think is really helpful

Empathy And Consequences Teach

Dr. Charles Fay 32:34

to people is is this idea. And I'm gonna share a sound bite with you, and then I'm gonna unpack it. Okay. Um let empathy and consequences do the teaching. So I'll say it again. Let empathy and consequences do the teaching. Okay. So let's back up now. Some of you guys are thinking, oh no, not that E-word. Empathy. Okay. Right. Empathy has gotten the worst uh name because people misuse it, just like grace. Empathy is not about permissiveness. Let me lay that out. You can be very strong, you can hold your kids firmly accountable, and you can do it with empathy. Empathy is simply communicating, kid, I care about you, and I do care about how you feel about things. I care about that. I care about what's going on in your heart and in your head. I I care about you. I I know that, man. You know, I'm sure that when you when you hit that that that pole out outside of the house in my car, I I know that that that had uh had uh hurt your heart. I imagine that was terrifying for you. Um and if any if any kid can figure out how to get that damage paid for, you can. Right. Let's look at that now. So I'm communicating love to this kid. I love you, man. I know that you didn't you didn't mean intend to go out and like just scrape the side of my truck. I got to throw all this out there, you know. You you didn't mean to do that.

Chris Grainger 34:40

Um it sounds like a real experience for you there, Charles.

Dr. Charles Fay 34:45

Yeah, well, what if you oh yeah, I uh had I've had those. Um but uh it's uh yeah, well, I I now you got me distracted. I'm thinking about all the dumb things I've done in my five. And and I was blessed to have a dad who's kind of like this, very, you know, pretty empathetic, but man, he let the consequence do the teaching. So it's the empathy, but then there's a full consequence. So well, how am I supposed to pay for that? You know, it's like I don't know, son. But I don't know, the onus is on them, yeah.

Chris Grainger 35:24

But you're there to support.

Dr. Charles Fay 35:26

Notice this, I don't know. And then and then here's the rest of the here, here's the rescue of the discussion. I don't know. Did you hear that? Yeah, right. It's like um it's that silence, it's that it's that pause, it's that lack of closure on stuff, which really, you know, really gets people thinking, gets kids thinking. But but but let's let's get back to this whole thing. It is so important to this this permissiveness versus legalism kind of struggle here. So right. Um I say to myself, okay, yeah, when when things go wrong, to the best of my ability, I'm gonna be empathetic. Or if I can't be at the moment because I'm so mad, I just look at the kid and I say, you know, I'm I'm so angry about this right now that I need to take some time to pray over this. I love you, and and we'll talk later. What are you gonna do, dad? I don't know yet. I'm gonna pray about it, but I just love you too much right now to have a discussion with you about this. Okay, so let's just this take a little time. And that's a really powerful thing. Yes, it is okay. Um, and so but but that empathy for things go wrong, empathy, you know, or at least saying I want to be empathetic with you, kid, I gotta pray about it first. Uh and then saying to yourself, okay, if this kid is going to learn from their poor decision or their carelessness, there's gotta be some real, real consequences. Not just talk. Right, right. It's just we all that's modern psychology. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and then we're the same people. Nonsense. Okay. Loving actions speak louder than words. Amen. Right. So, you know, I I I'll give you a real story. Okay.

Break: Pray With Your Wife Guide

Chris Grainger 37:38

Hey, let's take our breakdown. Let's take our breakdown and then we'll get that story. We'll be right back, guys. We did we'll pick up that story with Charles. If there's one habit that can change your home, it's this. When a husband prays with his wife, not because it's a magic formula, but because it recenters your marriage under God's authority and care. And let's be honest. A lot of guys want to do it. But most don't know how to start without it feeling awkward. Maybe you tried it before and it felt forced. Or maybe you've never tried it because you don't even know what to say. Or maybe you're thinking, man, I'm not a pastor. I'm just a guy. And that's why we created this guide. It's our how to pray with your wife. Simple guide. It's biblical, it's practical, and it's designed to help you start praying with your wife in a way that actually feels natural. So it's a five-section guide and it gives you a simple framework to get started. Okay, make sure everything is grounded in scripture and it also has a powerful PDF that you can pull up whenever you need, especially when things get off. Because they're gonna get off. That's normal. So this is all about reclaiming your marriage and reclaiming the spiritual leadership reigns of your home. Because praying with your wife is one of the strongest ways to fight for unity, to build trust and to write the ship when life starts to pull you off a course. So if you're ready, get access today at the lionwithin.us slash guides. That's the lionwithin.us slash guides. And start unleashing the line within at home by leading your marriage through prayer. All right,

Camaro Story And Paying It Back

Chris Grainger 39:22

Charles, you were getting ready to share a fun story for us of real life. Let's get to it.

Dr. Charles Fay 39:27

Okay, well, yeah, there is a period of time where I I had uh I had three things, I'll just put it that way. Okay. I had I had a 69 Camaro. Nice all beat up. But I had a 69 Camaro back when you could buy one for a few hundred dollars. Okay. Right. All right. I had a lot of testosterone. Yeah. I remember those days. And and then I had a mullet. Uh there you go. And I'm just humbling myself before you got a tomato and a mullet. What else do you need, right?

Chris Grainger 40:02

Top of the world right there now.

Dr. Charles Fay 40:05

So I'm hanging out with my buddies in dirt parking lot, and uh it's by the high school. And uh, you know, I I just thought I'm just gonna burn out, you know, burn out of this parking lot. So I just I just put the pedal and metal, I'm burning out of the parking lot, and you know, there's all this gravel flying and all that. And this lady I didn't realize she had backed her brand new car kind of back in behind me a little bit, and I took out one of the taillights with it in with this car. I mean, with a rock from me burning out. That's a small town, you can't get away from anybody, right? You know, everybody knows. And uh she gives out a car and she's just she's just really amazingly kind, you know. She's like, right, oh man, you know, she's upset. She's like, oh man, I remember when I was young, I did stuff like that, that kind of stuff. I'm just like, oh, you know, and uh and so um and and you're gonna have to you're gonna have to make that right, you know. She's telling me that. You're gonna have to make this right. And and I just uh I was kind of irritated because she's so nice about it, but you know, because if she would have gotten nasty, it could have just kind of discounted it in my mind, you know, she's a mean lady, you know, and she, you know, but she was really sweet. And then I get home and my dad has already found out about it, and he's like, Oh, that's never good. That's never good. I'd I bet your heart sank when you realized what happened, and how you how you gonna pay for that? Kind of thing. And I had I was so blessed because I had two people who who actually extended great love towards me. You know, this one was very kind. My father was very kind. And I remember even at that point in time, that thing I think was close to a couple hundred dollars because of course it was a Cadillac El Dorado. That's the car I picked to burn out against. But but the point here is that that empathy really drives the pain of the consequence down to the heartwork and do the teaching. Yeah. So the the question is I don't know if it's so much of do I need to be so worried about being permissive versus legalistic. It's just can I express some empathy and just let the facts be the facts and the kid have to deal with the facts? Yeah. Now here's here's the blessing of all this is that my father, did my my mom, did they have to just dwell on that? Or did they just have to allow me to pay for it? The next morning could they get up and just say, Hey Charlie, we love ya. Good to see ya. How you doing? Want some pancakes? It could just be incredibly loving people. Because it wasn't on their shoulder to fix me. So let's let's camp out on that thing. Okay.

You Cannot Fix Or Save Them

Dr. Charles Fay 43:29

It's not our job to fix them. We put that on ourselves, don't we? Sometimes it's like we we gotta make sure these kids turn out good, and we gotta make sure that they love Jesus and know how to serve him.

Chris Grainger 43:46

Right. Lots of pressure there.

Dr. Charles Fay 43:49

Is that the gospel? No. Well, yeah, last time I I checked, and I I have to go back to this one, it's Ephesians 2, 8 through 10. Okay, it's uh for it is by grace through faith you are saved. And this is not of yourself, it is a gift of God, so that no man may boast. Right. For we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus uh for good works to walk in. I may have gotten that a little bit twisted at the end, but that that's the basic idea. The truth is there.

Chris Grainger 44:29

Right.

Dr. Charles Fay 44:31

So the question, the truth of it is, the truth of the gospel is we are not saved by works, we are saved to do good works. Right? So then all of a sudden we forget that we're gonna become parents and think, okay, we're gonna save our kids through works. We we we think we have so much power that somehow we are going to impart upon them salvation when that is has to do with a gift from God that results from a personal relationship they have with Christ. Not one we've given them or imposed upon them. So the truth is we can't save ourselves. Save our kids, what do we do? What does God command us to do? In his work. That's a question, a real question. When it comes to how we work with other people, treat other people. Does he command us to save people? He gives us a strength to say you know he didn't give us the power to save anybody. He gives us the power to walk in his ways and share his truth with people and his love with people. That's right. I don't know about you, Chris, but I I think that's really good news. Because if I'm putting that on myself, I'm either gonna get permissive or I'm gonna get really legalistic and I'm gonna vacillate. It's like the permissiveness is oh, if I love my kids enough and I'm gentle enough and I'm so kind all the time and I'm just so sweet, then they're gonna they're gonna love me and they're gonna love Jesus. No. Yeah. Okay. Or maybe no, no, that didn't work. So now I'm gonna try this other thing. It's like yelling, it's discipline with decibels, you know, guilt, shame, you know, you should do this. That always works really good, doesn't it? I mean, it nah. No, that's not the gospel either. It is is living it out. It is, kid, I love you. I'm gonna set some limits with you. I'm gonna help you understand that you don't run the universe, but I'm gonna help you understand that the one who does loves you dearly and he gave his life for you. I'm gonna I'm gonna get into God's word with you. I'm gonna teach you these things directly. And and when I when I don't know what it means, because there's a lot of times I don't know what it means, I'll say, I don't know what this means, but let's find this out together. Yeah. And you know, the other day when, you know, your mom was upset with me because I didn't, you know, wipe my feet before I came in the house and she said something to me and I got grumpy with her. What do you think about that? You know, is that like a really great representation of what this is teaching, the way I handle that, or or did I did I could there have been a better way? This is this is what God says. He says, You love your wife, your mom, okay? Like he loves the church. Like he died for the church, you know. It's like I didn't make it, did I? No, Dad, you were kinda you were kinda nasty. Like not proud of that. Uh not proud of that. Um you know that's God gives us a lot of standards and and all of them are are really in a lot of ways it they they're just impossible under our own power. Right. And you know what that does, son? It it it reminds us of how much we need him. And so I was reminded by the situation, son, about how much I need Jesus. It's those authentic conversations about real life situations where at times we're we're just flat out saying, I I didn't measure up. Here's a solution. I I love the you know, I I'm just because I I'm just talking to you, you know I it's when we have these conversations, I just I like to I try to get outside myself and just go with what what God is speaking to me, I think, at the time. And I'm thinking the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew, Matthew 5, and you know, he's it's a great thing to read with your kids. He's talking about anger and hatred and and uh you know loving people who are enemies and about all these deep things, you know, and and all of them are like the bar is high, you know. It's like wow, I can't reach that, you know. Why did he share those things with us if we can't do it? Like, how

High Standards Point To Jesus

Dr. Charles Fay 50:19

do I do it? You ever feel that way, guys? I mean, seriously, I'm talking to the audience. You ever feel that way? It's like, man, it's like I I it's the bars high, man. Um why why does why do you share those? Why are there so many instances of scripture where it's like the bars so high? It's like again on James, the the book of James, taming the tongue. And then it goes on to say, what nobody can do it. Right. Oh, thanks a lot. Okay. So I'm supposed to tame the tongue, which I know is the right thing to do, but I can't do it, but nobody can move it. Like it's easier to tame like this deep creature with this giant lithophyathon or whatever on the sea. I can tame that, but I can't tame my tongue. Uh wow. Why? Okay, because that's where he wants us. Realizing that he's the solution, he's the only solution. Yes. That's what this book is about. It's it's it's like here's the here's the bar, here's here's God's law. You know, here's what he's saying that we ought to do, he commands us to do. Right. Uh how do we get there? And it's the old Sunday scroll answer that's always correct. Jesus. That's right. So that's that's what the book is. You know, the book's got all sorts of stuff in it, you know, and and you know, to be honest, you know, I put a lot of work on how do we set limits, you know, how do we how do we love our kids? How do we deal with technology issues, you know, how do we, you know, all these things in there. There's specifics in there, but it all comes back to these core things that that we can't do, but we can

Limits And Technology At Home

Dr. Charles Fay 52:04

do in him.

Chris Grainger 52:05

Right. Amen to that. Well, you did a phenomenal job with it, Charles, and I'm so thankful for you for sharing some insights. And and I'm sure it was a this project was not an easy undertaking. And before we let you go, we'd love to have a little fun lightning round here at the end of the of the podcast just to share some with our listeners a little bit about you outside of our normal conversation today.

Dr. Charles Fay 52:29

So

Lightning Round Fun Questions

Dr. Charles Fay 52:29

you're asking me to say something about my is that what am I getting that right?

Chris Grainger 52:33

No, I'm I got a lightning round for you. So I'm gonna I'm gonna fire some questions.

Dr. Charles Fay 52:36

Go ahead. You tell me, yeah, help me out with that.

Chris Grainger 52:39

Fire some questions your way. So oh, okay.

Dr. Charles Fay 52:41

You're gonna ask me questions. Oh, that's better.

Chris Grainger 52:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, you don't have to stay. I'm I'm gonna make you think on the spot, but it's gonna be questions I'm gonna ask you. How about that? So uh give me a hobby. What's something you enjoy doing for fun, Charles?

Dr. Charles Fay 52:55

Uh I you know, I I like to fix stuff.

Chris Grainger 52:59

You're a fixer, okay.

Dr. Charles Fay 53:00

I like to fix stuff. You know, I like it when stuff breaks, is I like to take stuff apart and see how it works and put back together and figure out how to fix stuff. So I I like to fix stuff.

Chris Grainger 53:11

Okay. Now you mentioned that that that that Camaro, so you still a Chevy guy?

Dr. Charles Fay 53:16

Um, well, I I don't know. That's that's probably the most confidential thing we've talked about today. But uh oh yeah, I I gotta stick with the Chevies. I like the Chevy's, yeah.

Chris Grainger 53:29

Hey man, you can't go wrong with a 69 Z buzz. That's a pretty good ride for back in the day.

Dr. Charles Fay 53:34

Oh man, yeah, that's awesome.

Chris Grainger 53:36

That's a good ride for today. I mean, so let's just be real. That's not pretty cool there.

Dr. Charles Fay 53:41

I know. I wish I had it. Mine had a big block in it. Oh man, it was a big block, 69 uh Camaro. The big block is just all sorts of torque, and there's nothing better than torque, man.

Chris Grainger 53:55

Oh yeah. My my high school sweetheart, her brother had one, and then her dad had a 67 Cheville. And uh, you talk about some fun guys to hang out with. That was a good time when they pulled those out.

Dr. Charles Fay 54:08

Oh, they're great, man. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 54:11

Love it. Love it. What about what's my favorite food? What's your go to, Charles?

Dr. Charles Fay 54:16

Uh anything that I can grab without having to cook it. Okay. I I don't know. It's like, yeah, I have to say, I mean, anything that's got uh the the well, so I've I've learned that the healthiest food for me personally is anything with a good amount of salt, sugar, or fat in it, and and something that I can just grab. You know, that's what I like.

Chris Grainger 54:45

There you go. There you go. What about what the date night with your spouse? What's what if you had the perfect date night, what you what are you and her doing?

Dr. Charles Fay 54:53

Um we we'd sit and and take a deep breath and not have to solve any problems.

Chris Grainger 55:01

There you go.

Dr. Charles Fay 55:04

We work together. My wife, she is the hardest working lady, and we work hard together. And so there's always a lot of problems to solve. So we like it when there aren't problems. But that that is a date night, just being together and not having to solve problems. A beautiful thing.

Chris Grainger 55:18

Love it, love it. Well, when you do think about God, what is your favorite thing about him?

Dr. Charles Fay 55:23

Uh, I would say my favorite thing about God is that he is strong and loving at the same time. You saw that thread, you know. How do you have you know, perfect, perfect strength, per you know, perfect love, grace and truth put together. Wow.

Chris Grainger 55:40

Right. Amen.

Dr. Charles Fay 55:42

And then conversely, what's your least favorite thing about the evil one? They look so good sometimes. You know, it it it looks so good, doesn't it? Like he he he d he doesn't he doesn't show his real colors at first. He he slides in and he and he shares things in your mind, or he provides things out there in front of you, puts things in front of you that that look really, really good. Right. Right. He has a great way of doing that.

Chris Grainger 56:21

Well, yeah. What do you hope the listeners remember the most from our conversation and at the same time, what do you what do you hope their main takeaway is from the book if they when when they move forward to to add this to the library?

Dr. Charles Fay 56:37

The main takeaway is that it doesn't have to be complicated, and God's gonna give you the strength to do this, He's gonna give you the strength and love to do this. And the single most powerful thing you can do, and let me nail this down, is to to to be in Christ. It doesn't mean being perfect, it means going to him and saying, Lord, I don't know what to

Where To Get The Book

Dr. Charles Fay 56:59

do, but my eyes are on you. Right. I I'm I'm utterly empty without you. Again, I don't know what to do, but my eyes are on you.

Chris Grainger 57:12

Amen.

Dr. Charles Fay 57:13

That's what he wants.

Chris Grainger 57:14

Amen. Where where do you want to send them to get a copy of the book and all the resources and things that that you have going on, Charles?

Dr. Charles Fay 57:22

Sure, sure. Well, my website is loveandlogic.com.

Chris Grainger 57:27

Love and logic, okay.

Dr. Charles Fay 57:29

Yeah, love and logic. Uh, you can people can get the book anywhere, you know, everywhere where books are sold. But as they say, right? Uh uh going to our site is a is a blessing to us because that that helps us keep this going. We're we're we've been a small family business for for decades. So uh yeah, we we appreciate the business, but you can you can get it, get it anywhere.

Chris Grainger 57:54

Amen. We definitely encourage you guys to add this one to your to your library at home, fellas. So Charles, anything else you'd like to share today, sir?

Dr. Charles Fay 58:03

I was I'm just thankful to you, Chris. Uh just an awesome experience talking to you. So great to meet you. And and uh, like I said, I saw Lion Within Big Big Thing on the back of a pickup truck yesterday on the way to church. And I'm like, that's so cool, man. I get to talk to the guy. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.

Chris Grainger 58:22

That's awesome. God's moving, man. So it's been an honor. It's been an honor, guys. Go get a copy of it for sure. You won't be disappointed. And Charles, thank you so much for your time today, sir.

Dr. Charles Fay 58:32

Thank you, Chris. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

Question Of Week And Next Steps

Chris Grainger 58:36

All right, guys. Hopefully you enjoyed that one. Uh, so thankful for Dr. Charles coming on. Question of the week this week is how are you discipling your family beyond Sunday morning? You know, that's something that's something that, again, I advocated for such a long time because I really just put that on the church's responsibility. Boy, was I wrong there. Man, I was I wrong there. So, fellas, it's our job. It's our job. Yes, the church is supposed to equip you and come alongside you and help you, but you you you have the most influence, period, inside your family. So lean into that. So if you need more encouragement, guys, the lionwithin.us, I highly encourage you. Go check out the resources out there. Open up the Bible app, go to the Bible app, search for the Lion Within Us. Follow us on the Bible app as well. Because if you follow us on the Bible app, every time a plan gets released, you'll be notified, you'll be updated, and maybe you can hop on that plan and you'll be encouraged by it, fellas. So all that stuff, guys, the LionWithin.us, daily spiritual kickoff, lion's den leadership mastermind, putting an application there. We have lots and lots of ways that we're serving you, and hopefully you're being encouraged by that. So again, the lionwithin.us is where you find all that. You want a copy of our book, Unleashing the Lion Within, go to Amazon, get that. We have an in print ebook as well as an audible version, fellas. So no excuses. We're covering all the bases there to serve you and to help you in your discipleship journey. All right. So, guys, thank you so much for hanging out today and spending time with us. I can't wait to see you on Friday for our next episode. And if you want to support the Lion, if you really enjoy what we're doing, how we're trying to help equip men be the leaders that God intends them to be, we'd ask you for your support, okay? So go to the lionwithin.us slash donate. So thelionwithin.us slash donate. That's a great way just to hop on, be a monthly supporter of what we do. And it would go such a long way to helping us equip these men to do what God's called them to do, okay? All right, fellas. Thanks for listening. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you next time. Keep on leashing the Lion Within.

Sexual Integrity Support Group

Chris Grainger 1:00:36

It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying, this is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without commendation. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography. It's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30 day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30 day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thhelionwithin.us, and step inside the lion's den.