Welcome, Scripture, And Daily SKO

Chris Grainger 1:34

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders, God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. Alright, guys, meet episode time. Let's get into it. Okay, so the scripture of the week this week is Luke 6, verse 45. It says this the good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good. And the evil man, out of the evil treasure, bring forth what is evil. For his mouth speaks from with that which fills his heart. Guys, I took some time to unpack that verse at length in our spiritual kickoff episode. So go back, listen to it, and be your next one. The previous one in your podcast feed. And other than that, guys, we do a day a spiritual kickoffs Monday through Friday at the Lion Within. It's called the Daily SKO. Guys, it's our free free way of serving you, of encouraging you. Like right now, I'm working through the gospel of John with the guys. It's a lot of fun. It's just a great way to be encouraged. Basically, we just read scripture and then how can we apply it to our life? That's it. Nothing fancy, but guys really enjoy it. Okay, so look, rely on dot us, get signed up for that. It also gives you access to our prayer request space. And the prayer requests, we have a prayer request meeting every Monday. So if you want to come to the meeting on Monday and be prayed over, be prayed for, we'd invite you to it. And on top of all that, if you live in the continental U.S., we have a free gift we'd like to send you, okay? So alignwithin.us is where you get all that stuff started. Alright,

Introducing Reagan And Finding Virtue

Chris Grainger 3:02

guys. So for this episode, I'm super excited to welcome in my friend Reagan Miller. Okay, so I've I've known Reagan for three a little over three years. We were talking about that in the podcast. You're gonna hear it all about it. He's been part of the lion, he's been a big supporter of the lion for sure. And now he he started on this project a while back called Finding Virtue. So he he he set up this Finding Virtue Ministries, and now his first book, Finding Virtue is Out Guys. And I'm so excited. I've been praying for him and trying to encourage him along the way. I even had little reminders in my calendar to check in on Reagan how the book's going. What do you need support with? What do you need prayer over? So this one to see this one come to fruition, I just uh it's really neat, it's really cool. So I'm I'm super excited for it to come out. I mean, Reagan, he's a believer, first and foremost, husband, father. He's got five kids, he's got ten grandkids, and uh he's just he's built this finding virtue program um really from firsthand experience of raising his youngest son, Josh. And we talk about that directly in this conversation. And and look, fellas, he's trying to to bring this forth. Like when when do you become a man? He addresses this firsthand and he gives us some really good practical insights for any guy out there to uh to implement. So uh his ultimate vision is to see a worldwide movement of fathers raising sons to live in God's truth and action. And I'm telling you, if you do that, you're gonna see transformation, fellas, from families to communities to generations. But it all starts when men step up and lean in. So I'm really excited about this one. You're gonna have a lot of fun with it. So sit back and enjoy this conversation with my friend, my brother in Christ, Reagan Miller. Well,

The 80s Rock Band Backstory

Chris Grainger 4:46

Reagan, welcome to The Lion Within Us, Brother. How you doing today? I'm great, Chris. Thanks for having me. Man, I'm super excited. So, I mean, for our listeners, you know, they get to hear me interview people every week. And most of the time, you know, Reagan, I I only know the people I'm interviewing for. Short window. I mean, there's some some special circumstances where I get to know the the the guest on a more personal basis, but for the most part, it's just uh, you know, we come in, we do an episode together and we we part ways. That's not the way with us, brother. We've known each other for a while. How long has it been now? I think it's been maybe three years or more. Yeah. It's really cool, man. I mean, you've been you came into the lion and you were part of that, and then God laid it on your heart for this this kind of this next chapter of what you've leaned into, so I'm super excited today. And I do like to start episodes though, just something fun about you that maybe not many people know about Reagan. What's a what's a uh uh that little that little hidden nugget about Reagan that uh not many people know?

Reagan Miller 5:48

Hidden nugget about Reagan. Uh I may I may not look like it, uh, but I was a drummer in a rock band in the 80s. Long hair, boots, trench coats, the whole nine yards. Let's go. Let's go. So I'm gonna go. The long hair part is really hard to get your head around. I get that.

Chris Grainger 6:08

So was it like, was it your own music or you guys a cover band? Like what were y'all what were y'all jamming out on?

Reagan Miller 6:13

Cover band in high school, Corpus Fristi, Texas. We thought we were YouTube, wanted to be them, all the good stuff. And uh yeah, man, we we we played, I don't know, a whole bunch of shows every year and had a great time. So I I actually still play drums. I play them playing my church sometimes when they let me.

Chris Grainger 6:30

So I was gonna ask you, do you still beat on the drums, man?

Reagan Miller 6:32

I do, I do. Give me a couple of sticks and something to hit, and I'll get after it.

Chris Grainger 6:36

That's all right, that's cool. That's super cool. I well, I mean, you were already pretty cool with like top of the list. Now you just like amped it up even more in my book, man. So that's awesome, brother. Well, maybe God laid it on your heart to to work to do

Three Questions Every Boy Asks

Chris Grainger 6:51

this project finding virtue. So maybe just walk us through the initial call from him to do this work because I'm sure it hasn't been easy.

Reagan Miller 7:02

Yeah, absolutely. I think the you know, our our our mission is to equip fathers to raise sons who live God's truth and action. Um we think that uh every boy is asking three fundamental questions. Uh the first one is is uh when do I become a man? And the second one is is uh what does it mean to be a man? And I think the third one is uh who's gonna tell me? And and so finding virtue really exists to help fathers to be able to uh help their sons answer all these uh questions. And I we think that you know all fathers uh really want to do this. I I know I've you know I I'm a father of five um with two two stepchildren in the mix, but we don't really use the step term too much because they're my girls. Um but um you know I I I really know what it is to want to raise um uh children in the you know in the fear and admonition of the Lord. Uh and I know what it is to really kind of fail at that too, and not do such a great job. And um uh so I think most fathers really want to do this for their sons, but but but we don't really know how, um, and we kind of don't know where to start. So uh finding virtue is uh designed to be a practical guide for a father or or a mentor to really teach, instruct, you know, uh and to share what it means to be a man according to God's word, uh to surround our son with a group of godly men who's gonna support this journey. And then the whole thing ends with this uh ceremony that we call the calling, and it's a ceremony during which the father calls the boy up into manhood.

Chris Grainger 8:49

Yeah, that's so awesome, man. I mean,

Joshua And The Birth Of Virtues

Chris Grainger 8:51

and I know for you, a lot of this you know, this project came from your personal experiences, you know, firsthand. So maybe walk us through personally how you how this impacted you. You mentioned five kids, but raising them up and and and and going the things you should, I'm sure you've you where you look back and oh mess, I missed that opportunity, but also areas where you really feel like you really nailed it. So just walk us through some of that those personal learnings you had.

Reagan Miller 9:16

Yeah, for sure. I th you know the the the the feeling like I missed it, um, and uh I'm probably not alone in this. I think a lot of men, you know, just feel like we missed it, particularly when it comes to uh uh to our children. Um, you know, miss maybe miss spending enough time. Um, you know, I've been a corporate executive for the last 35 years of my life. Um built a really great career and um, you know, uh have more miles and hotel points than I probably should, right? Yeah, yeah. Um so that's a you know, maybe we missed the time, maybe we just missed the intentionality, maybe we just missed the opportunity to go, you know, uh play catch, throw the ball, do the thing, right? Maybe miss some games. So I I feel I think a lot of fathers feel like we've we've we've we've missed it. Um but at the same time, you know, all of us can kind of point to these moments where we said, God, we really, man, that was a that was a really, really great moment. I will tell you, some of the best moments that that I've had um have have been those kind of uh quiet moments with my children uh when we're out doing something. Um so this whole journey started. Um I was reading a book called Boy's Passage, Man's Journey. It's uh by a guy named Brian Molliter. And uh this book is about restoring rites of passage for our children. And uh after you know, in reading it, my wife and I we got super aligned with this idea, and we decided we decided we wanted to follow this whole thing with our youngest son, Joshua. Uh the all the other kids were actually you know mostly grown and gone by this time. Um so this is uh you know nine, maybe, maybe ten years ago. Um yeah, he was nine or ten. He's nineteen. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh so at some point in time, you know, the uh in thinking about okay, you know, when Josh turns 13, we're gonna we're gonna have this ceremony, we're gonna call him into manhood, and we were kind of working that out. But I really felt the Holy Spirit uh just leaned into me and said, Hey Reagan, it's really cool that you want to uh call Joshua into manhood, but what if he asks you, what does it mean to be a man? I didn't have a good answer for that. Uh and and and so that's where this idea of like teaching virtues um as the basis of a man's identity in Christ came from. And so we we created this program uh for Joshua. Uh we selected eight virtues. We got a cohort of men around him, including his youth pastor and some other uh trusted family members, my father, you know, Josh's grandfather. Um, and we would take Joshua out on these what we called virtue days. And um, the first one was at a local state park, and we went to this state park, it was just me and Josh, and we learned about the virtue of love. And we we learned you know, what does it mean to be to be loved by God and to love God? What does it mean to love yourself and what does it mean to love others? Yeah. Um, and how to do that according to uh according to God's word. Um and so we did that over the course of probably like a couple of years. Um and uh you know, again, these kind of eight virtue day um uh you know adventure things that we would do with Josh, and then we it all culminated when he turned 13 and and uh we had this uh amazing ceremony we called Josh into manhood and been going ever since. So that was that was really the impetus and kind of the genesis of all this.

Chris Grainger 12:39

Well, I mean, walk us through a virtue day.

Inside A Virtue Day Adventure

Chris Grainger 12:42

That very first one. I'm sure there was some some you look back on it now, you know, that when you you and Josh went out and you focused on love. What what did that look like? Kind of paint the picture for the guys of you know, what did you get, where did you go, what did you do, how long was it, just kind of getting out to some of the brass sacks. I'm I'm I'm very curious on this one.

Reagan Miller 12:59

Yeah, it's so cool. You know, so we we went to uh so I live in uh just north of San Antonio in Texas, and so we went to a local state park called Garner State Park. And funny enough, I we just spent a week out there with our whole family last week, so it's pretty fresh. All the memories are pretty fresh. But um, yeah, so uh Josh and I, you know, we loaded up, loaded up the truck and put all of our camping gear in there. Uh we spent two nights, uh you know, just went out and set up our camping gear. Um woke up in the morning and you know, uh I had a little coffee and he had a juice box or whatever it was. And um, but um, you know, each day we would plan out, and there was kind of these three teaching sections. So um uh the first part of the first the first morning we would go through, and I had written out this curriculum and we learned and we talked and we just we just sat there by the campfire in the morning, you know, and um uh just had this conversation about love. And what does it what does it mean that God is love? What does it mean that God loves you? What does it mean that that you can love God back and had this really great conversation that you know it was 30 minutes probably? So like we didn't sit there and just you know uh ruminate for hours and hours and hours, but it was pretty densely packed, and it was, you know, I tried to design it so that uh you know a 10-year-old could understand it and really, you know, get his head around it. And then we went for a hike. Yeah. Uh and we went and hiked up on top of this thing called Old Baldy, went up at the top of that. And uh uh one of the one of the things that we uh were doing at the time was uh geocaching. Are you familiar with that? Yeah, yeah. So geocaching, super cool. Uh it's a it's a there's an there's an app for that. But uh what geocaching is is uh like all around everybody in the in the United States right now, there are these hidden uh and it's geo, like you know, geo and then cache, c h C-A-C-H-E. So geocache. Uh there are these hidden boxes and all kinds of different stuff, but mostly most of their they're ammo boxes, but they're all over the place. You can download this app and you can and then it kind of leads you to them. You still have to find them a little bit, but uh it kind of leads you to them. And so Josh and I were super into geocaching, and what you do is when you find the box, you get to you get to look through there and people leave stuff and you can take something, but if you take something, you got to put something back. And you just find a little register, and it's kind of a cool little thing. And so Josh and I went up there and I had purchased in advance this little coin that had the word love and it had uh um uh 1 Corinthians uh 13 on it on the back, just uh, you know. So I had purchased this coin. So Josh and I went out geocaching later on that day uh on one of our hikes, and uh I I found the box before Josh did, and so I kind of slipped this little coin in there and closed it. And then uh I went over and found Josh where he was over there looking someplace else, and I we kind of came back over and found this box together. He opens it up and he pulls out the coin. He goes, Dad, look, there's a coin about love in here. And I said, Hey, I said, You found love. There you go. And it was this really kind of you know cementing powerful moment uh for Josh. That's really that was it, man. Then, you know, we we um just hung around the campfire and just spent time outside, got sweaty and got dirty and and uh just had just had this great time together and and uh tried to really cement this idea about what is love, what does it mean to love God, to love yourself and love others, and how do we do that as men? That's really cool, Reagan.

Break: Unleashing The Lion Within

Chris Grainger 16:21

Super cool. Hey guys, and we're gonna take our first break with Reagan, we'll be right back. If you're like me, you don't need another book just sitting around collecting dust. What I enjoy is something to help guide me when my feet hit the ground in the mornings. Uh-huh. And that is why we put together Unleashing the Lion Within. It has honest stories, scripture you can apply, uh-huh, and simple steps to help you lead at home, at work, and everywhere in between. So if you've been feeling stuck or scattered lately, you may find this resource encouraging. Read a few pages and take one step and watch what God does with your obedience. Hey, and if reading's tough for you right now, no problem. The book is also available in Audible version. Uh so you can listen on the go. So if this sounds interesting, check out thelionwithin.us slash book or search for unleashing the lion within directly on Amazon. So there's no pressure here. Just a resource that many guys are finding helpful. So grab the format that fits and take your next step.

Building The Cohort Of Men

Chris Grainger 17:32

So Reagan, I'm curious. You know, you mentioned that you have guys that that were part of kind of like the council, if you rent, if you will, that were helping Josh in this. So go through how did you select those men and and to be part of of such a great calling to speak into his life?

Reagan Miller 17:49

Yeah, thanks. That's that's a that's a great question. And it's such an important part of the whole program. There's a whole chapter um uh in the book dedicated to the cohort and how to establish a cohort, gets really good instructions on, you know, how do you how do you think about picking um the right guys? Um, you know, how do you how do you reach out to somebody and ask them to be a part of this and explain to them what it is? And there's little scripts. Like, what are you asking me to do here? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like, you know, what is finding virtue? And you know, hopefully at some point in time, you know, lots of people know about this and you know, like I'll be be a part of a few cohorts, but in the book, we really give a lot of really good instruction on on exactly how to do this. Um, you know, I think the most important thing when it comes to uh deciding who's gonna be part of this cohort is to pray, really, and and and really think about um uh going to the Lord and saying, God, like who are the right men to surround my son with? Uh, so that uh you know, the lessons that they have, their personal stories and and what they can bring to my son is going to uh you know create the right learning, the right understanding, and the right wisdom, uh, and really, really uh, you know, help that virtue to come to life in my son's life. So I think pray is first. Um uh you know, uh really close family members are a pretty good place to start. You know, if there's a maybe there's a an uncle or certainly a grandparent who could uh be part of this. Uh if you're involved in a church, you know, think about asking uh somebody who's on the church staff. Um like, you know, maybe it's a uh youth pastor who's who's uh pouring into your son every week. Um think about a coach uh if your son's involved in sports, or maybe he's in band and there's a band instructor. Um so just people who are kind of close to your son. Um, and then you know, also people who you really, really trust, somebody who's living a life that you would want for your son to look up to and say, man, I've you know, I I I want to live like that. Um and then again, well, you know, with God's guidance, I think that God will really lead you to the right cohort. And and we we recommend, you know, getting a cohort of around six people. There's 12 virtues um and 12 virtue days. So, you know, bringing along one of those brothers on uh about half of those is kind of the the idea.

Chris Grainger 20:18

Okay, yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you too. Is it I mean, I'm assuming the end, which we'll talk about when you with a big ceremony, you're bringing everybody together, but you're pulling some guys, it sounds like through through a selection of those days as you work through the process.

Reagan Miller 20:33

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and you know, some some of these um uh you know, some some brothers are gonna really feel uh maybe kind of called or drawn to a particular uh virtue that they want to teach. So you can even give them the option if you want to. Um you can assign them if you want to, but um uh yeah, you wanna you want to kind of line that up. I'll give you an example. Um uh one of my very best friend, uh very best friends in the world is uh retired lieutenant colonel in the army. And uh so uh so he chose discipline as the one each. Imagine that. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 21:15

Well, I I mean

Why Rites Of Passage Disappeared

Chris Grainger 21:16

as as you did your research and were thinking through the book, uh how do we miss this? I mean, you would think that this would be something that we would be super intentional about, but it's just it's it's not even it's not on the church's radar. I mean, you don't hear sermons about this, about you know, speaking virtues and building a man up and when you become a man. And I mean, certain, you know, uh certain uh different demographics have these these rituals and stuff, but from a Christian world, it's just not it's just not there. What where did it get off? Because I feel like this is such a core fundamental item to speak into young men, but we just we just don't do it.

Reagan Miller 21:54

Yeah, such a good question. I mean, uh honestly, the a kind of Western society, you know, I guess maybe European-American sort of society, uh, we're we're the only society or culture in all of human history who doesn't do this. Yeah. Um I mean you you can go around the world today and uh it's there's probably less of it, but uh, but there's still most cultures still have some kind of uh you know rites of passage. Um where where do we get off? Uh you know, I write about this quite a bit in the first section of the book and just talking about um you know what what like what happened to us. And I I think there's a lot of a lot of reasons. You know, one of them is just the industrial revolution. Uh you think about uh you know parents having to go to work in these concentrated city environments and and um uh you know in the 1800s and you know not living out in kind of rural um uh uh you know farming communities and that sort of a thing. And you know, because uh a a son would just you know follow in his father's footsteps, and if if dad was a blacksmith, then the son would be a blacksmith. Um and that started to break down as there was more options. I think you know uh I kind of joke in the book, I say you can blame it on the 60s, jokingly, but you can kind of blame it on the 60s. I mean, we, you know, um think about being a latchkey kid. Uh maybe you were. I know I was a latchkey kid in the 70s and 80s. You know, I'd uh walk to school and come home, and both parents were at work. Um, this whole idea of a teenager, it's a completely new concept. Like in the last 120, 130 years. There was no such thing as a teenager before that. In the you know, mid 1800s. hundreds, you were 13 years, 14 years old, you went to work. You got married. You started having kids. So this whole idea of this age of range of you know kind of 13 to 18 is also relatively new. So I think there's a lot of reasons why we've lost it. Um uh but you know I I gotta tell you I even would ask you the question Chris you know when did you become when did you know you became a man?

Chris Grainger 23:54

Yeah. For me, man, I tell you I was thinking about that because uh because going through your your resources. It

When Did You Become A Man

Chris Grainger 24:01

was weird. I came home from college I rem I remember going on the deck with my dad. I came home from college for for like winter break or something. It was like maybe my junior year of college. I'm you know how it is when you when you go off you come home for the different you know spring break and fall break and things like that. But this was winter break. I remember it was cold. It was cold outside and uh he was having a s a cigar on the deck and he had bought me one and so and we had never done anything like that before. And so he you know he remember he handed me a cigar and and and uh and showed me how to you know snip it and and and light it up and you know how to you know because I never smoked cigars before that was kind of outside of my wheelhouse and uh and there's it was something about that conversation on the deck with that cigar where I was like huh something shifted in our in our relationship and something shifted in me. I just felt like at that moment you know that that was that was a a transition point. So it was it was it was very distinct I remember it like it was yesterday but uh you know it was just it was in that moment right there.

Reagan Miller 25:12

That's amazing what a great story you know I think uh what I just heard one of one of the things I just heard you say is like there was a shifting in your relationship with your father for sure you know and I think about the longing we all have for a relationship with our heavenly father. Yeah and this moment when there's this shifting in my relationship with the Lord when I realize wait a minute I get to make a choice for God. When I was eight my parents used to take me to church I went to Sunday school all that but now I'm I'm a 13 year old my dad just told me I'm a man I have this opportunity to create this relationship with the Lord that's mine. That shifting of a relationship I think is a really important part of this. But I have to tell you uh Chris most of the men I asked that question and I would invite everybody who's listening to this like hit hit the pause button and say when did I become a man? Yeah. And and you know if you did that and you came back you're you're probably in the great majority of men in Western society today who can say I don't really know. Yeah. You just kind of fall into it right yeah yeah I mean you know 16 because I got a driver's license or 18 because I could you know die for my country or 21 when I can buy alcohol. I mean there's all these other external markers but um but that's that's not God that's not God's design.

Chris Grainger 26:31

Uh well I mean most guys would probably say first time they get laid or something right I mean that's first time I mean that's the way the world speaks you know stuff like that. You know so it's like no bro you're you're completely missing the point here.

Reagan Miller 26:42

Yeah yeah and so so when do we become a man and and and you know what we say in finding virtue is it's the dad's job to tell him.

Chris Grainger 26:50

Yeah.

The 12 Virtues And Virtue Chain

Chris Grainger 26:51

Amen that well you can't so there's 12 virtues. You mentioned earlier though you had eight with Josh. So go through the wrestling of of how you came up with that list and I'm sure you know as you go through this you were probably you probably had 20 or or more and how you pare it down to the the 12 that you feel like God was was leading you to yeah well that's a really good question.

Reagan Miller 27:15

In the book I give a list I I think it's 53 virtues and there's there's a whole bunch more and you know virtue is uh there's been a lot written over the over the millennia about virtue and so that was a really um that felt like a challenging topic to to research and learn about and man I'm still I'm still learning uh every day about uh you know what is virtue the the conclusion that I came to and this is just kind of my hot take on you know what is virtue is that uh virtue is God's truth and action okay and the the whole idea behind that is is that um something I call the virtue chain so uh you know virtues are informed by our values our values are informed by our morals our morals are informed by our beliefs and our beliefs are informed by the truth and I think in society today what happens is is you have people who claim that something is virtuous and if you follow that chain it means it's right it's good it's appropriate it's good for others etc um but what happens in a lot of society today is that we disconnect the idea of what a what is virtuous from God's truth. And there's only one truth and the truth is Jesus. And so when we start disconnecting virtues from truth then it's literally no longer a virtue. So the idea is that that God's truth showing up in the world or otherwise you know in action is what virtue is. And so with that whole idea and I'll talk more about that in the book but I think understanding that is is really key um with that with that in mind um you know it was a lot of prayer just really you know asking God to show me which which of these virtues that we should uh put into the book uh on on our website uh at findingvirtue.org um there's a few and we'll be a whole bunch more resources uh for with lesson plans for many many other virtues and I would encourage uh and and so the ones we picked for the book were love patience uh grace joy compassion courage discipline righteousness uh integrity purity humility and peace so though those are the 12 we put in the book um and I would encourage any dad who you know if you could read the lesson plan about righteousness and you say I'd like to change something about this and I want to teach that in a different way, go for it, man. You know if you want to write your own lesson plans go for it and share with others when you do. And uh but but I think the whole idea is is that you you definitely want to select virtues that are going to be appropriate for your son uh and kind of match his personality and match who God, you know, who you're beginning to see God has called and created him to be. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 30:20

Maybe speak to

Teaching Virtues While Still Growing

Chris Grainger 30:21

the to the guy listening Reagan who you know let's just go through the very first one he talked about love with Josh. And maybe this guy listening he he just feels like he's not a very loving guy. You know he just struggles he struggles with love. And we're gonna I mean as as as men we struggle with all those verse where you just lets it through I think patience was one of them that would be not one I would want to teach you know uh that would be wild I would struggle with so like when the guy he's like whoa he just told me I need to speak on love and I and I'm not a very loving guy like how do you help that the man the man overcome his own doubts and insecurities to be able to speak truth into his son.

Reagan Miller 31:03

Yeah absolutely first of all um I mean who among us right is gonna reflect all 12 of these in some some amazing way every single day like that's just that's not our reality. I mean with God's strength we can do anything and I I just want to start by just in encouraging anybody who's listening to this and if you're a dad out there you got this like you absolutely can do this. God has called you and he's equipped you and he's given you everything you need in order to be able to uh to lead your son and teach your son in these ways um you know pause for a moment and think about everybody who did something great in the Bible with the exception of Jesus all of them were flawed right and we all know these stories right you know Moses he had a speech impediment God said hey Moses I want you to do this thing and he's like why me you know think about Paul um uh think about uh you know Joseph I mean just this uh just every single person in the Bible who did something great they were all flawed um were they perfect at anything absolutely not uh and so the same is true for me as a dad uh man you called out patience that's a tough one for me I mean uh honestly as I'm teaching Josh about patience I'm feeling kind of hypocritical and I'm saying you know it's um it's um you know patience is waiting and you know being able to uh to do that um you know while still having peace and I like I know Josh is looking at me going dad like that's not you and I and I get it but you know I think honestly the as a father my faults and weaknesses when I can look at Josh and go look man I I know I don't do this well you know I I I I know that I don't always maintain my joy but man I'm a work in progress and right can we just can we just lean into this together and let's just go study and learn more about it and and I I want you to see me knowing that I'm not perfect but also I want you to see me acknowledging that and then praying to God to give me strength and courage to go take a next step in this direction. And hey son maybe maybe you can do that too let's do that together. There's a lot of power in that yeah 100% and just being vulnerable and transparent and letting them know you know I mean so I think that power in that conversation and it's probably going to draw you and your son a lot closer together by just owning it just owning it you know letting him know that hey am I this is that this is something your old man's still trying to work to himself right yeah absolutely yeah don't but again I just want to encourage the dad like don't feel disqualified don't feel you know incapacitated uh you know don't don't let the enemy you know try to convince you that you're not good enough or you don't know enough and you don't you don't have to be a scholar you don't have to be perfect you just got to you just got to be committed love that love that hey guys we'll take our next break we'll be right back if there's one habit that can

Break: How To Pray With Your Wife

Reagan Miller 34:13

change a home is this when a husband prays with his wife not because it's a magic formula but because it recenters your marriage under God's authority and care.

Chris Grainger 34:23

And let's be honest a lot of guys want to do it but most don't know how to start without it feeling awkward. Maybe you tried it before and it felt forced or maybe you've never tried it because you don't even know what to say. Or maybe you're thinking man I'm not a pastor I'm just a guy and that's why we created this guide. It's our how to pray with your wife simple guide it's biblical and it's practical and it's designed to help you start praying with your wife in a way that actually feels natural. So it's a five section guide and it gives you a simple framework to get started. Okay it makes sure everything is grounded in scripture and it also has a powerful PDF that you can pull up whenever you need especially when things get off because they're gonna get off that's normal. So this is all about reclaiming your marriage and reclaiming the spiritual leadership reigns of your home because praying with your wife is one of the strongest ways to fight for unity to build trust and to write to ship when life starts to pull you off a course. So if you're ready get access today at the lionwithin.us slash guides that's thelionwithin dot us slash guides and start unleashing the line within at home by leading your marriage through prayer Reagan what do you think is going to be the hardest if you were to look at the 12 that you had to find in the book what what what do you think is going to be the most challenging one for the guys listening to from a virtue day standpoint to execute I mean I know it's probably be different for everybody but just curious if if you look at that list is there just one that stands out do you think guys may want to shy away from and just that you want to encourage them to lean into it?

Reagan Miller 36:09

Yeah that that's good. I think I think um maybe the first one that comes to mind there is uh is compassion.

The Hardest Virtue To Practice

Reagan Miller 36:17

You know it's it's really difficult and and maybe this is just coming from me it's it's it's sometimes it's really difficult to put myself in somebody else's shoes. You know you think about uh again the the teaching structure for each one of these lessons and and each one of these is in the book um there's also a father's field guide and a son's field guide that uh that the men can can purchase uh and that's that's um you know but father's field guide you take that out there with you it's got uh uh room for notes and the son's field guide has the same thing you can kind of keep it as a as a uh you know uh memento of what you what you did together um a little sidetrack there but just to come back and you know think about uh compassion in these three ways what how is God compassionate how can I be compassionate like to my own self and then how can I be compassionate with others uh that's a that's a really complex thing to understand uh you know how God can be compassionate to me when I know I'm a sinner and how God sent his only son to die for me uh while I was still a sinner, you know, even though I was a sinner. And you know getting my head around that is really, really important but it's also I think I I've I sit here today I don't think I understand it as as as well as I could. That's that's that's just the the mystery of God's love and compassion is incredible. But then being able to have compassion with myself going back to like I'm not perfect and being able to say to myself hey that's okay you're not perfect Reagan you're working on it um and uh being able to like even forgive myself and then and in the in that part of the in in the in the compassion chapter I actually tie it really closely to forgiveness. And then the the last piece about being compassionate with other people that's not something that I think comes naturally to us. I think we're generally as sinful people we we're pretty selfish. And so I I think that that's one that's going to be going to be difficult um uh you know for dads to tackle with their sons.

Chris Grainger 38:19

Yes 100% well I mean thank you for sharing that and and it kind of it leads to and what did you call it when you have the

The Calling Ceremony Explained

Chris Grainger 38:26

cohort meeting at the end where you're ringing all the guys together with with your son. Yeah that's called the calling the calling all right so maybe walk through the calling of what that that event entails what does that look like uh bring us bring us and paint the visual picture for the listener out there what the calling how does that gonna go down yeah um so I I I can tell you how we did it with Josh.

Reagan Miller 38:49

Okay. Um and then you know uh and in the book I give several examples and the other ideas and I would just encourage people to get really you know uh creative about it. Uh the first thing is is you know this doesn't have to be some big gigantic event where you hire a band or a DJ and there's a big party and all kind of you don't have to do all that right um you can if you want to if you want to have a real celebration and so we kind of did this a little bit of a mix. The way we did this was uh we had uh all of the cohort members uh who had participated uh in josh's journey um and then we invited some other really close uh family members um all men and there were probably about 15 of us uh plus josh okay and uh we'd spent the first hour just us all together and we rented out a little community center uh thing that was close to our house um we went and got it all decorated because we had a party after that but um the first part was this one hour with all the men and uh we put together a little uh program me and one of the other uh brothers put together a little program for josh uh and uh we uh acted like we had these little storefronts kind of a thing and the first storefront was hey step right up come over and check this out and you know look at these I think we had some Vogue magazines or something and you know look what the world has to offer you it has all these you know pictures of women kind of a thing you know are you gonna choose that and the next one was you know it was uh I think we got an empty bottle of beer and put it there and say you could you could choose this from the world and we kind of all this storefront of all the things the world offers and then the last one was you know we had a Bible and we had a candle um a little uh you know thing of oil to say or you know or you can or you can choose Jesus. And so we had a little bit of fun with that. And then we went around the room and every single one of the men had prepared something to say to Josh and it was just really uh pouring into him. And then uh Josh had prepared something that he spoke to all the men um and then uh I had something prepared as well at the very end and we Josh and I stood up in the middle of this circle we created and and uh I called Josh into manhood and I said today I declare um Josh you are a man and then we stood up and then the grandfathers uh prayed over Josh and and and we finished up and it was just I was just beautiful. I mean really one of the most beautiful things I've ever participed participated in my whole life. And at the end of that then we opened the doors and there was I don't know 40 50 other people family members and people who came in and we had a little party um you know for a couple hours after that and and um you know had a little music playing and just people just you know enjoying a meal together and and that kind of a thing. It was a lot of fun.

Chris Grainger 41:37

If we were to ask Josh well what what do you think he would say about that experience?

Reagan Miller 41:42

I have asked him even even recently you know the whole finding virtue program when I the the first time I asked him about this was probably a couple of years ago I'm like okay Josh like look back now it's been a few years since since we did this like you know what did that really mean to you and his first answer was it was a lot of pressure and I I I thought that was really telling um and so I I asked him to like you know what do you mean when you say pressure? He's like you know you and these other men set this bar really high for me and so I felt all this pressure to kind of go live up live up to that bar. And I said you know did you dislike that? He's like no like it did it it wasn't it it wasn't painful it didn't hurt um uh but it was pressure and I thought job well done then like if you're if you're feeling the pressure to live up you know to some form of standard as long as you understand you can only do it with the with the help of the Holy Spirit and with God's power like you can't do this on your own. You've got to do it with you know uh operating in Christ is the only way any of us can ever hope to express God's truth here on earth. Yeah. As long as you know that um and you don't you don't feel pressure to perform right uh instead you feel pressure to um uh to express God's truth in action if if that's the and that's threading a little bit of a needle there but if if we got there we're in good shape. So so I think that's that that's what Josh said um that he felt at the time.

Trusting God With The Long Results

Reagan Miller 43:21

But I man I can I I gotta tell you I've seen Josh you know he was uh uh in sports and I've seen him uh I've seen him be courageous and I've heard him talk about being courageous as a leader on his sports team I've heard him talk about discipline as a leader on his sports team I've I've heard him uh man he's uh he's an intern at our church right now I got up there he got up just a couple of weeks ago and he was preaching to this high school group standing on stage which I'd be I can't even uh hardly believe God would do that I I know God can but uh it's such a blessing that he has and and and and Josh is up there uh you know talking about integrity and uh so yeah it it seems seems to have stuck for the most part but he's like all the rest of us he's a man but he's a man on a journey what about the dad out there who does this and and and he's walks through it but maybe he's not seeing the fruit the way that that that you're seeing in Josh and what would be your encouragement to that guy to still keep leaning in and keep pouring into his son yeah for sure um I I have to tell you my my wife's like I'm not surprised Josh is you know ministering to these kids and I'm and I keep saying I am well I didn't think Josh was going to do that. He's a he's into music and I thought he was going a whole different direction so um so that was a surprise to me but you know I think I think for for all of us as dads um I I know for me I I have this like probably unrealistic set of expectations that uh josh is going to do all these wonderful things. This is not just Josh this is all my kids and now you know my wife and I we have 10 grandchildren and so uh all these all these young grandchildren um you know I'm looking I'm I'm wanting them to uh you know uh you know do things in a way that I think they should do and what I've had to do as a as a parent is like let go of that and say hold on Josh is a fully formed human being all these children are fully formed but they're formed by God not me and God has a plan for every one of their lives and uh I I I don't know what that entire journey is gonna look like. Uh I can point Josh in a direction uh I can you know pull back the bowstring and I can release release that arrow out into the world. I can do everything I can to try to point it in the point it in the right direction and you know give a lot of strength to the pull and the release. Right. That's really gonna end up being just up to God and up to Josh. And his his path and his journey is are gonna be his. And so that releasing of that, uh all my expectations and my hopes and my dreams, and just realizing that that's between Josh and God is kind of a starting point for me to be able to be able to do that. The other I would say one other thing. Sorry, long answer here, but one other thing is um uh you know, seeing results is not something that will happen in immediately. Right? Like you're not gonna go on a virtue day and talk about courage and then all of a sudden seeing courage start showing us life. It's like not it doesn't work that way. Um, you know, uh that that virtue may not have an opportunity to manifest and to show it, you know, for him to you know show God's truth and action out in the world for years and years and years to come. Um but I believe that all those seeds that we plant as dads uh over time in the way that God would see fit, and um whatever plans God has for our sons, that uh we just we just have to be faithful in our part and uh absolutely trust God to do his.

Chris Grainger 47:07

100%. And as you were going through this book, Ray,

Courage, Fearlessness, And Publishing A Book

Chris Grainger 47:11

Reagan, you know, what was there a virtue or a chapter that challenged you personally the most as a father? I'd just be curious which which one would that be and why?

Reagan Miller 47:22

Um that's a that's a really good question. You know, um my word for the year this year is um is fearless. Okay. Um and um I just kind of maybe speak about a moment right now. I think I think one of the things I'm really uh learning how to express is courage. Okay. And um that's a courage in all sorts of in all the places in in my life. It courage in my marriage, um courage as a father, uh courage uh as somebody who's out in the world of work, courage to publish a book. Yeah, that's been amazing. Um and I so I felt really challenged uh uh to be courageous. That's it. That's it.

Chris Grainger 48:19

Well, Reagan, I this is gonna make such an

Lightning Round And Personal Favorites

Chris Grainger 48:21

impact for so many out there, so many dads out there. Before we wrap up, though, I'd love to have a little fun with you at the end. A little lightning round, if you will, just to let the listeners get to know you a little bit better. So if you're willing to play, we'll jump right into it. Fire away. All right, buddy. Well, what what hobbies? What do you enjoy doing for fun, man?

Reagan Miller 48:39

What do I do for fun? Uh it's gonna sound weird, but I I I honestly love working out in the yard. That's not weird. Just gotta just kind of keep you know, keeping up the keeping up the property here and and and doing that. That's a lot of fun for me. Um I mentioned we have 10 grandkids, so we spend quite a bit of time with them. That's a lot of fun. Um man, I love I love to get out and and just being outside and being outside in nature and and uh seeing seeing seeing all of God's creation is uh is a lot of fun for me. I also mentioned I like to play the drums, like to do that. Um, and I also uh like to write poetry. I've been doing that my whole life.

Chris Grainger 49:18

Okay. Man, you got all these new little things I've learned about Reagan today. That's awesome. Okay. What's what's your go-to meal, Reagan, if you're sitting down for for dinner? What what where what's on your plate? Popcorn. Popcorn. Okay. That is a first. That's a first.

Reagan Miller 49:38

So yeah, you just you like some popcorn, huh? Just give me a big old bowl of buttery popcorn at a at a theater, and I'm in. I'm done. Love it. Love it.

Chris Grainger 49:48

Now, you got a date night with you and your wife. Like, what's the perfect date night for you guys?

Reagan Miller 49:54

Yeah, perfect date night, you know. So my so we we we do enjoy uh going out and finding like a new restaurant, at least a good one. Um, you know, just going and just like sitting across the table and we can talk about anything, but um uh, you know, just just going going out and finding finding some some really good food, I think, together um is uh something we like to do.

Chris Grainger 50:17

That's really cool. That's really cool. How about if you look back over the last year? What did you spend too much time doing, Reagan?

Reagan Miller 50:26

That's a really good question. Uh what did I spend too much time doing? Uh I think I think in this last year, I I may have probably spent too much time uh doing some Doom scrolling. I don't do that a lot. Yeah, I don't do that a lot, but man, like they, you know, we we were uh kind of off grid out at Garner State Park this last week and didn't have connectivity. It's so funny. On on day, I think it was day three, I got up, I got dressed, we were gonna go for a hike that morning, and I grabbed my phone and I'm like, what what do you have that for? Why why did you grab that phone? Like you literally don't have connectivity. There's nothing you you know, what are you gonna use the calculator? Yeah, yeah. I was like, just leave it there, Miller, you're gonna be okay. Uh and that was like a little bit of a moment for me to realize, man, you're pretty attached to that thing. And so um I'm I'm wanting to be a lot, lot less attached to what's going on in the news and social media, and uh, you know, I want to be aware, but I don't I don't want to be um I don't want to be tied to stuff like that.

Chris Grainger 51:29

That's right. That's right. When do you think about God? What's your favorite thing about him? Love.

Reagan Miller 51:36

I can't, I I I can't even fathom, I cannot fathom the depths of the love of God. Yeah. Uh that he loved us so much he sent his he sent his only son because God wants to be with us. Me. Like he wants to be with me. He created me on purpose, with a purpose, knit me together in my mother's womb. Uh, and he's like, you know, out of out of all of the uh infinite number of possibilities of the humans that he could have made, he made he made Reagan, and there's like that's wonderful, and I love him, and I want to be with that person for the rest of all eternity. I can't figure that out. Yeah, it's mind blowing, right?

Chris Grainger 52:19

Mind blowing. Mind blowing. Now let's flip in 180. What's your least favorite thing about the evil one?

Reagan Miller 52:26

Least favorite thing about the evil one, I he's a he's he's a dang trickster. I hate that like and for me, um, you know, I got I got I got a little button for for being deceived and being tricked. Like I'm you know, I don't like that man. Yeah, I can't I tend to trust too much, uh kind of upfront. I don't know if that's a that's a fault or maybe that's a virtue, I don't know. But um uh man, I I hate it when people are dishonest. And and he is, he's the a liar and the father of them, and that just that just torques me off.

Chris Grainger 53:02

I hate that he does that. Well, I'm with you 100% there. And as you guys, you know, the listeners out there,

Big Vision And Where To Get The Book

Chris Grainger 53:11

they're gonna be leaning into finding virtue. What do you hope they remember the most from our conversation and more importantly, what what do you hope they get from walking through this with their sons?

Reagan Miller 53:22

You know, um, as I think about uh the next 50 years, and look, finding finding virtue, it's a program. And that's a lot of great programs. There's so many good ministries right now that you know that are pouring into men. And can I just just say thank you to you, Chris, for your ministry, your your ministry, the line within, man. It is it has blessed me. I know it's blessing so many people. Um uh so thank you for what you do, Chris. It's really, really important uh out in the world today. And and and there's there's so many others. Uh so uh I think my hope is 50 years from now, uh, because of what we're doing with finding virtue and and all these other ministries, is that the idea of rites of passage is no longer something novel. Right. It's like, of course we do that. Like, you know, you know, finding virtue is sitting on a shelf somewhere and hasn't been read for 20 years because we don't need that anymore, right? Um because of course we're gonna call our sons into manhood, of course we're gonna call our daughters into womanhood, of course that that's exactly you know that's just how we do it. It's it's really uh regained a seat in our culture and our society. Um and it as as as a church and as a people of God, that that really uh uh you know becomes this idea of you know, what does it mean to be a man and what does it mean to be a woman? And that's living God's truth and action, and that we're being intentional, we're teaching our children these things, just like the Bible tells us to do all over the place. Um, and that it's such a part of the culture that that we don't we don't need these ministries anymore.

Chris Grainger 54:55

Right. Brother, you've done a great job. I'm excited if it's your first book, and and where do you want to send the listeners to to get a copy, to connect with you, all the wonderful things you're you're building and doing there.

Reagan Miller 55:08

Yeah, for sure. Uh so uh finding virtue.org uh is a great place to start. Uh you can go to you know really uh bookstores and of course all the online retailer places you would normally buy books, you can go there uh you know to get a hold of the book. And again, there is the father's field guide and son's field guide, and it's really designed to be a package. I mean, you can just buy the book. Yeah, you can run the whole program just with the book, and I wanted to be sure to do that. Um, but the father's field guide, son's field guide is also part of it. There's a bunch of other resources on the website that you can you can access. You know, we want people to really be part of the community as well. So uh there's a you know, of course, Facebook page, an Instagram uh thing that you can be part of. Um there'll be a YouTube channel coming out here pretty quickly, where there'll be some kind of short form uh videos that are talking about uh finding virtue. Um and uh you know what I would what I would just encourage is um you know uh uh either do the program yourself, or I would encourage you if you're a dad who's got a real strong passion for this, think about establishing a local uh chapter for finding virtue. You could do that at your church, you could do it at a community organization. So we're gonna have a uh a chapter model that people can go implement. There'll be a lot of resources to support that as

Question Of The Week And Next Steps

Reagan Miller 56:21

well.

Chris Grainger 56:22

Love it, love it. And guys, by the time you're listening to this, it the book literally just came out. So go support and go get a copy of it. Reagan, so excited to have you on, man. Praying for you and for finding virtue and for all you're doing and much success in the future. And for just it's just great just to have a friend on the lion as well, brother. So thank you so much for your time today. Yeah, thank you, Chris. Appreciate it, brother. Bless you. Guys, I told you that's gonna be a great one. So thankful for Reagan for coming on the show. Look, go get a copy of his book, and I talk about it all the time. We want to support the authors that come on. But Reagan, this is his very first one. This is a grassroots thing. Get on the front end of it, specifically for you guys that have sons. And look, here's a tip. If you know somebody, maybe you don't have a son, but your buddy does, get it for him, bro. Like just get it for him. You don't have to have a special occasion like Father's Day or a birthday or Christmas. You can if you want to use all that, sure. Buy it for them. I mean, we got Christmas coming up in a couple months, so why not buy a copy for all your buddies, get it out there and send it to them. There'd be something meaningful that they would enjoy. And then look, think about whose cohort can you be in to support these young men who are stepping into manhood, okay? All right, so that guys go go out there, support it, be a part of it. Uh, our question of the week this week is what consistently spills out when life when life applies pressure to you. So, look, fellas, you gotta whatever's going, whatever's inside is gonna come out. We talk about that a lot in our spiritual kickoff episode this week. And if you need encouragement, need hope there, reach out to us. We're here to support you, to walk with you, and help you be the leader that God intends you to be. So, fellas, head over to thelionwithin.us, get started with us today. If you're listening to us on Spotify, please give us some comments. We love to engage with the people with our listeners on Spotify. So connect with us there. Other than that, we listen, we have YouTube, we have uh the podcast. Obviously, we have uh the Bible app. Go check us out on the Bible app. Lots of resources, lots of ways to engage. The Lions Den, the Leadership Masterminds, fellas, we're serving in so many different ways. Check out our events page. We have lots of events that are coming up on a regular basis. And if you would like for me to come speak to you, be a men's group or your church, reach out to us, fellas. We're getting we're getting more and more of these dates stacked up. I'm coming in, trying to give some real encouragement to these men's groups. So we're here for you. We can we're happy to serve and walk with you, but we need to hear from you, okay? So just connect with us there. Other than that, guys, support the ministry. Go to the lionwithin.us. If you're just a listener and you like the show and you don't want to take part of the lion's band, that's fine. But support the lion within us ministries, guys. We got everything set up with 501c3. Everything's in place. We would love to have your supports. Maybe you want to be a monthly donor and just come alongside and to help us do the work that God has clearly called us to do, fellas. So jump on it in the lionwithin.us slash donate for that. All right, guys. Well, we'll see you on our Friday episode. Looking super excited for you to be with you at that one. Other than that, just have a great day. Get after it, give us a random review if you don't mind.

Sexual Integrity Support Group Invitation

Chris Grainger 59:21

And you know what's coming, right? Keep unleashing the lion within. It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying this is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without commendation. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography, it's about becoming a man of integrity, a man alive, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30 day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30 day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thelionwithin.us. And step inside the lion's den.