Scripture, Shame, And The Setup

Chris Grainger 1:34

Welcome to the Land Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, fellas, this is your meat episode. Let's get into it. Okay, so the scripture of the week this week is Psalm 32, verses 3, 4, and 5. Okay. It says, When I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day. For day and night, your hand was heavy on me. My strength was sat at the heat of summer. Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, I will confess my transgressions to the Lord, and you forgave the guilt of my sin. You guys, we're going to talk about this a lot today in this episode, okay, fellas. But look, those verses right there, I unpacked them in the spiritual kickoff episode. So go back on your podcast feed if you want to listen to that. And if you enjoy the spiritual kickoff episodes, go get sign up right now for the daily spiritual kickoff, guys. We get unpacked God's word on a daily basis at the Lionel's Dennis Monday through Friday. Okay, fellas, this is how we try to serve and encourage and equip you guys. And look, even if you when you join that, you have access to our prayer request space. So every Monday, which I'm recording this on a Monday, every Monday, fellas, you get opportunity to come with us, hang out at a live Google Meet where we can pray together, pray over you, and be super intentional about that. Okay, fellas. So the LionelCan.us is where you find that. So this is going to be a great episode because we're welcoming back Dr. Joe Bean. I'll tell you what, I had just a the reason this came up is I had a really good launch with Al Robertson. We were having lunch. He was like, Chris, I know you had Joe on one time. I think you guys talked about spiritual warfare. I'm like, Yep, we sure did. He's like, but have you had him only talk about guilt and how to get past that and forgiveness? I'm like, no, I'll have it. He's like, you got to. So that's how we set this up. So he's internationally known, inspirational speaker, again, a best-selling author. He founded Marriage Helper Incorporated, okay, and he's the chairman of that. But we're talking about Joe. He spoke to millions, I mean, millions of people worldwide. Public appearances. He's been on TV, he's been on radio, he's been on the Good Morning America, Focus on the Family, uh, the Today Show, Dave Ramsey. I mean, it's crazy the things that he's done in his life. And but he is helping marriages one couple at a time. That's what it's all about. And in this episode, this conversation, fellas, he gets raw, it gets real. He he br he goes through his personal story of how he wrecked his marriage. And when you hear it about the things that happened, you would think there is no way, no way that it can be restored.

Joe Beam 4:11

No way towards reconciliation. By God, man. By God. I'm telling you. I talk to so many guys who are struggling in their marriages right now.

Chris Grainger 4:22

And their marriages are either on the brink of disaster or it's already been broken. They just feel like there's no correct idea. This episode, this podcast is for you. Now, is it gonna fix your marriage instantly instantly? Absolutely not. But there's some nuggets in here, there's some really fine things in here that are gonna hopefully open your eyes to steps that you could consider as you move forward. This is what Joe does. I'm so passionate about helping marriages be healed as well. So I'm so so thankful for him for taking the time to come back on the show. So sit back, get your notebook out for you guys that are really want to learn and grow and enjoy this conversation with Dr.

Joe Bean’s Marriage Wrecking Choices

Chris Grainger 5:06

Joe B. Dr. Joe, welcome back to the line with Ennis. How are you doing today?

Joe Beam 5:13

Doing well, Chris. Thank you for having me back. I appreciate it very much.

Chris Grainger 5:19

The last time we had just a great conversation on spiritual warfare, this is gonna be not quite as hard, but maybe it could be even harder, depending on who you talk to, right? But I got I got connected with you again. The reason it's brought up, just so you know, is I've been working a lot with my buddy Al Robertson on Unashamed, and we've been working on some other projects together. And he's like, and I was having lunch with him. He's like, Chris, have you talked to Joe yet about that his book that really helped me and Lisa? I'm like, no, the time I talked with Joe, it was on you know, seeing the unseen and spiritual warfare. He's like, you need to get him back on to talk about the other book. And that's kind of what led to this conversation, Joe.

Joe Beam 5:56

Yeah, it seemed to have a tremendous effect with Al and Lisa and their situation.

Chris Grainger 6:02

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So I I got I ordered it that day, Al told me. It came in. I reached out to you, you were gracious, and you said yes, you you would be willing to come back on. And so I just basically did, I felt like I was a student cramming for a test. I read through the whole thing, just trying to trying to get it ready. But what stood just rocked me on my heels at the get-go was just your story. And I'd love for you just to share some of your story because I know that's going to resonate with a lot of a lot of the guys that are that are listening to the line that are struggling with their marriages.

Joe Beam 6:33

Yeah, the reason uh I wrote that book, actually, when when Howard Books, which is now a uh a division of Simon and Schuster, but when Howard and Books, uh Howard and Howard Books, let's make say that right, contacted me years ago about writing the book on spiritual warfare. I said, Well, I really want to write a book on grace and forgiveness. And so finally we made a deal that uh that would take the book on grace and forgiveness if I first wrote the book on spiritual warfare. And now himself uh wrote the questions at the end of each chapter in that book, seeing the unseen. Okay. And so both those books were the result of I had been a minister for 15 years and was at a rapidly growing church in Montgomery, Alabama, when I got involved with a young lady in our church. The only the only good thing about the story is that she wasn't married. At least we didn't destroy two marriages. But we can talk about if you want, Chris, how that happened, how I got into that, and obviously it led to adultery. And for some reason the church terminated me.

Chris Grainger 7:41

We'd love to hear whatever you're comfortable in sharing. But yeah, how I get started, because so many guys they think they like, it just happened. I'm like, I'm not so sure. It's usually not a suddenly, usually there's some small decisions that lead to that suddenly fat, right? Always.

Joe Beam 7:54

Always. You know, in in the first chapter of James, where he talks about us being uh tempted, lured away. You know, God doesn't tempt us, but we're tempted when we're drawn away by our own lust, is what the King James Version says. You know, what you just said makes a lot of sense. It's the small decisions. I made a model a few years ago that I've I've used in some sermons. I didn't use it in that book because I hadn't developed it yet. Uh but basically, if you think about the way temptation goes, okay, first there has to be some kind of uh vulnerability, okay, which makes a possibility. And the thing is, Chris, most of us have never stopped to think about what our vulnerabilities are. Now, when I start explaining my vulnerabilities, please don't misunderstand to think that I'm giving excuses for what I did. These are not excuses. But when you look back, sometimes you can see how certain things are used, which which leads you to the decision that you make, which is a very bad decision. And typically it's not one big, major bad decision. It's a series of decisions that lead to the big bad decision. I'm complicating this. Let me just say it this way. Uh all of my life, since I was a kid, I was made fun of for being ugly. And so I had a sensitivity to female attention because I felt I was ugly. And at the time when this particular temptation comes along, uh I'm in a theological fight in the religious group of which I'm a part. Of all things, Chris, we are arguing about grace. I know that sounds ridiculous, but that's what we were arguing about. And uh some people thought I was applying it too far. Without getting into too much detail, basically what happened was I was booked ahead in speaking engagements. The church I was with gave me uh six Sundays and six weeks a year off. And all of those were booked up in speaking engagements six years out. So we've talked about a lot, a lot of engagements. Uh, universities, Christian universities, churches, obviously, things like that. And in this church fight, uh, all of them canceled, every single one of them. And and I was getting as many as four phone calls and letters a day telling me I was going to hell uh because I believed in grace, which sounds ridiculous now. And so uh my church leaders, good men, but they were saying, why don't you just let it go? Why don't you just back off? Which I couldn't do. I felt abandoned by them. And then my wife, Alice, at the time, at the time I thought she was against me, which was not true. She was afraid, if you get fired, and you know, how are we gonna feed my children? So she basically said, Why don't you back off? But I I couldn't. Really just couldn't, because first of all, I believed I was right. And secondly, from childhood, my dad had taught me that he didn't raise any cowards, and so the long and short of it is I felt completely abandoned and alone. Now, again, Chris, just doesn't justify anything that I did. I'm just setting the stage of the vulnerabilities. Okay. So what happens is that when you have those weaknesses, those vulnerabilities, if there's no possibility of fulfilling it, it doesn't really matter. Uh so if if uh if I have a vulnerability to alcohol and living in a country where they don't sell alcohol, may not be a big deal. But here in the USA, everything's available. And so when this young woman, uh single, she was a part of our church, she was absolutely stunningly pretty. She was extremely smart, very intelligent, both of which were attractive to me. And she paid attention to me. And as I told you earlier, I was always susceptible to female attention. Never really protected myself from it much because I thought, I'm a Christian. I'm a good guy, I will never do anything. And so basically she walks in my office and sits down for some pastoral counseling and uh in essence said, I'm so proud of you for standing up for what you believe. I can't believe other people aren't standing with you, which triggered some pretty strong emotions on my part. Maybe somebody, maybe somebody's on my side. Now, again, don't misunderstand. This does not justify anything that I wound up doing. But you see, possibilities. As soon as she said that, well, the fact that she walked in my office created a possibility. And that's where people typically do well to put up barriers and boundaries and that kind of thing, which I didn't. But but then I let her keep coming to see me, which was against my policy. My policy was if I can't help you after three sessions, I send you to a true counselor. But I really liked her company. She was pretty and she was paying attention to me, and I felt like she was on my side and very, very poor decision. So that possibility led to a probability when one of our church elders came and said, It doesn't look good. I want me to keep coming to your office, you've got to stop this. And so I thought, well, they don't understand. We're just friends. And so I told her, they don't understand we're just friends. We're not gonna do anything wrong. We're good people, but I really would like to keep meeting you. And so we'd we'd meet in secret to talk. Well, at that point, it's not a possibility anymore. It's a probability. As I now know, the first time you make it a secret, you've crossed the boundary. And that didn't immediately lead to adultery, but with time, talking, sharing, oh wow, she understands me, she listens, she she gets me. I and so I start sharing with her things that I shouldn't only be sharing with my wife about my dreams, my fears, my all, you know, all those kinds of things that in in our language now, when I do with marriage, as we call that taking bricks off the wall, I start letting her see the real joke, the one that I typically hide from other people. Right. Not the one I pretend to be, but the one I really, really am on the inside, and and she accepted and loved that joke. Which eventually led to holding hands, which eventually led to hugging, which eventually led to kissing, which eventually led to a hotel room. And and understand, Chris, that like you said earlier, yeah, a series of small decisions. Right. She didn't walk to my office and I go, wow, I want this woman in my bed. That's not how that happened. It it developed over a period of time, becoming um closer and closer. And as you edge closer and closer to the edge, to the to the cliff, if you will, when you get close to the edge, the edge crumbles. And so now finally we went up in a whole hotel room together, which I never ever thought I would do. And and as I was driving there to meet her, I'm thinking, I'm I'm I can't do this. I'm gonna stop this. Chris, and in running my, you know, the doctorate I have now, I didn't have back then, but in running my PhD, I've learned a lot of things. And this thing called dopamine inside of us, it gives us this high. Okay. I've been told, I've been told as a chemical cousin uh to cocaine. I've never done cocaine, but I I know this stuff. But here's what is amazing about it that I didn't I didn't even know about it, but I didn't know this in particular, and that is that the dopamine is not this big rush you get when you're doing the thing. It's the big rush you get in anticipation leading up to it. Right. Right. So so the closer I would get to the hotel, telling myself I wasn't gonna go, I'm not gonna do this. This is wrong. I'll just tell her we can't do this. The closer I got, the stronger the dopamine got. And and the less, therefore, the resistance I had, because the desire now was in the high sky. By the time I got to the hotel, there was no decision-making then. Right. I've so yielded myself to my lust. And and my lust wasn't for sex, believe it or not. My lust was for this complete embracing of this other person. Now I know that there's some guys who get caught up in sexual stuff, and mine was sexual, I'll misunderstand. But sex wasn't the driving factor. It was wow. Intimacy in the sense of intimacy. This is close to mind. Right. Which was at the time a very sincere prayer. But it didn't take long. And we were back together again, and after a while you don't pray for forgiveness, you don't pray at all. You you plan when when will be the next time we see each other next time together. And so eventually, uh, that got stronger and more powerful, and you think you're being careful and not gonna be caught. And I'm still preaching. So you're still preaching at the time. Oh goodness. Believe it or not, and that's it's gonna sound weird. My preaching got better. Now, I know that sounds contradictory, but here's why I got better. My emotions were deeper. And and I did what is called compartmentalized thinking, which is when I was preparing my sermon or preaching my sermon, I wouldn't let myself think about her or any involvement with her. And when I was with her, I wouldn't let myself think about God, the Bible, righteousness. So you're right. Two different things. And and my preaching got better because my emotions were deeper, which made my preaching better, which is ridiculous. So while I was destroying my own life, by the grace of God I was helping other people, but I really wasn't thinking about them. You know, I was thinking about me. And so eventually we got caught. And uh and the church terminated me, as you understand. And uh and so not too long after that, I I divorced Alice, my wife, because I was going to be with this woman and we were gonna be happy ever after, which rarely ever occurs. I'm in I'm in the business now helping people with this, and people who divorce their spouse to marry their lover, the vast majority of them never marry that lover. And of the people who do marry, very high percentage of them divorce. Because that I'm gonna call it a fantasy, and that's gonna offend people if they are feeling it right now. But but that expectation that it's always gonna be this intense, this powerful, this amazing, there's never gonna be anything wrong. It's that like we were meant for each other, we're soulmates. As one lady told me, God sent this guy to me because he was the right guy. God didn't send you a person to commit adultery with. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. And at the time I was in it, I didn't believe that God sent her because I had a bachelor's degree in the Bible and I almost finished my master's, and I knew the book, and I knew God didn't send her. So the way I dealt with it was first I justified it by the hypocrisy of people who were in the church. And then finally, uh I became what I call uh an emotional atheist. I decided that God didn't exist. Not because there was anything proving to me that God didn't exist, but I didn't want him to. Because if he did, I was I was in a mess. Well, eventually, it took three years for me to come back to my senses, three years. I asked Alice if she would take me back, and she did. We remarried each other. And uh that's when I wanted to write a book about grace and mercy, which is the book you have in your hand. And Howard Book said, no, no, first the one on spiritual warfare. I said, okay, I'll write that one first. But that book you have in your hands was me wanting to feel forgiven. Right. I mean, intellectually I knew that God had forgiven me. But I still felt guilty. And so uh I wrote that book as a Bible study for me. Just like when I wrote the book on spiritual warfare, I wrote it for me because that book was about, okay, did I have any help? Not that I'm saying the devil made me do it. I'm taking all responsibility, full responsibility for everything I did. But did I have any help? And that's what led to the book on spiritual warfare. Came up with like 20 questions or so, and each chapter is trying to answer one of those questions from the Bible. And then, and then this book is like, am I ever going to be able to feel forgiven? Intellectually, I know God has, but am I ever going to be able to feel it inside? And and if and when I do, I know there are going to be some people that are going to tell me that they'll never forgive me. And by the way, those people exist. And and how am I going to deal with that? Right. So that's how the book came into existence. That's how I wrote it. And while there are a lot of details in my story I didn't go into, and many I really don't want to. Yeah. That's that's the gist of it. So when I'm talking to guys and they're being tempted, I'm telling them, would you like me to explain what you're feeling right now? And typically I can. Uh, and they go, Wow, that's exactly what I'm feeling. How do you know that? Well, I've I've been there. I know how that works. It starts with

Sexual Integrity Group Invitation

Joe Beam 22:55

this.

Chris Grainger 22:56

Before you go there, Joe. Before you go there, let's take a quick break and then you can unpack because I think it's just gonna be a great guest. We'll be right back at Gus. It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light. Pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying this is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without combination. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography. It's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the Lion's Den. And you can start that today with a 30-day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30-day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thhelionwithin.us and step inside the lion's den. All right, Joe, you're getting ready to unpack the feelings that guys have when they go through this. So please, you have the floor.

Joe Beam 24:59

When you think about the process of temptation, and everybody gets tempted. We have to protect ourselves from our vulnerabilities. And as I was saying earlier, Chris, I think most of us don't know what our vulnerabilities are. I needed a lot of affirmation. That was one of my vulnerabilities. I wanted women to think I was handsome. That was another one of my vulnerabilities. And keep threatening that one of these days I'm going to develop a seminar to help people figure out what their vulnerabilities are, because almost always they come out of childhood. You know, this is where my vulnerability is. And if we understood our

Vulnerability To Possibility To Probability

Joe Beam 25:36

vulnerabilities, then we'd have a better chance at resisting the temptations. Even if we don't understand them, it's got to be that we know that certain certain temptations exist. Ego, sexual temptations exist, um, wanting to be rich, wanting to be famous, all kinds of things like that exist. And and now, because I understand those vulnerabilities, um, I won't even have coffee in a public place with a woman unless my wife approves. Uh, it's like, you know, if you're not comfortable with this, then I'm not going. Right. And and it's always going to be in a public place, never any place private ever again. As a matter of fact, we have a rule here at Marriage Helper that there can't be just one man and one woman here in our building alone. Or they can't drive to somewhere, just one man and one woman, unless they're related. My daughter's our CEO, so we can be alone. But it's like, no. And I got that from Dave Ramsey. You know who Dave is by any chance, Chris?

Chris Grainger 26:43

Yeah, I know Dave, and I've also heard something similar from Billy Graham for the good thing.

Joe Beam 26:48

Yeah, Graham would even go to the point, what I understand, that uh he wouldn't have the TV taken out of his hotel room. Yeah. So I will not be in private with a woman I'm not related to, period. Right. Because even though I don't think I'd ever do that again, that was one of my vulnerabilities. And so we're going to stay away from that. And then that's when you can build the barriers. Well, what helped Al Robertson with that book is I I didn't go all that much into how I got into the situation. I was more about how do you accept the grace and mercy of God? How do you believe that it's applied to you? And that's what helped him when he was dealing with the

How To Feel God’s Forgiveness

Joe Beam 27:38

situation with Lisa that I'm sure you've taught with him about. And it became a matter of, hmm, I know that that God condemns sin. He's very plain about that. But like in Romans chapter 5, well, I'll give you an example. Many, many years ago, back when I was before all that stuff happened. Okay. I was I was doing a live call-in radio program in Evansville, Indiana when I was preaching up there. And this lady called one day. And on my my call-in Bible question and ask, believe it or not, Chris, I did it on the number one radio station in town, which was a rock and roll station. There you go. But on Sunday morning, they would let me have a half hour for a call-in radio program. Isn't that amazing? So this lady calls in and she said, Please, sir, uh, will God forgive a person who has killed someone? And there was something in her voice where I said, Are you telling me that you kill someone? She said, Yes. Still something in her voice where I said, Are you telling me that you murdered someone? She said, Yes. She said, I served 25 years. I'm now out. I've gone to every church in Evansville asking every pastor and minister I can find, will God forgive me? And she said, Every one of them has said, no. No, I knew that wasn't true. But I figured that's what she was hearing. She was so ignobled or guilt that even though they were trying to explain God's grace to her, she wasn't hearing it. And so I said, okay, let's go to Romans chapter 5, where it talks about the fact that God's grace is bigger than any sin. So now all these years later, I'm having to go back to the same passage, but for me, what I did was bad. I committed adultery, I lied, I hurt that church, I hurt a whole lot of people. Um a couple of years ago, Chris, somebody got my Facebook page and and posted. Um, I didn't see it for two or three days, so it was every two or three days. He posted, I was a teenager in that church when Joe Bean did all that stuff. And therefore, every bad thing I've done in my life since then, I've justified by saying, at least I'm not as bad as Joe Bean. So that kind of thing. And and it was a matter of, okay, if God's grace is bigger than any sin, then then God forgave me. Okay, intellectually I know that. Emotionally, why am I not believing that? And finally it dawned on me. Not believing that meant I didn't believe that God was telling the truth. If I really believed that God was telling the truth, then I had to believe that I really was forgiven. And if I could accept that in my head. Now, here's some of the problems with that, Chris. Every once in a while I was still tempted. Sure. Not by that woman anymore, she was gone, but by some attractive woman paying attention to me. Or or maybe a flashback of some of the sexual stuff that did take place with her, or whatever. And when I say flashback, I don't mean spending time dwelling on it. Just something flies through your mind, you know. And and so part of my problem of believing it was forgiven is the fact that part of me still wanted to do that stuff, or at least I believe part of me still wanted to do that stuff, because every once in a while those desires would flare up. And I finally had to accept the fact that, hey, wait a minute. You're never going to be perfect. The only one is Jesus. He's the only perfect one. And even he was tempted. And so when those temptations come, if I'm not acting on them, if I'm not yielding to them, it the flashbacks don't tell me who I am. My flashbacks tell me who I was. And if I start believing that, then I'm not believing I'm a new creature. I'm not believing that my sins have been washed away, that God's removed them as far as the East is from the West. I relate to what David. Well, actually, let me put it this wouldn't have been better. The one washing the feet of Jesus. Three times. Three times he tells her she's forgiven. And I relate to that. Like if you've been the town center, everybody knows what you did. There are a lot of people reminding you of your sin. And I got it, that Jesus told her three times. You're forgiven. You're forgiven. You're forgiven. Now don't do it anymore. And I thought, okay, okay. Picture that. That when these flashbacks come through, or some beautiful woman walks by and and and she looks at me in a certain way, and I think, well, that's that's another thing, uh, Chris, and I'm ashamed to admit this, but after after that woman left me, I didn't go back to Alice immediately because I had so vilified Alice to justify my leaving her. And so uh the next couple of years I hung out in bars and I lived a very ungodly life. And and uh in in those bars and things, strip clubs, things like that, I learned how to pick up women. Not because I was the most handsome guy by any means, but because I knew how to listen and I knew how to I learned how to read vulnerability. Well, Alice and I get back together. I never intended to preach again, but one of my friends guilted me into speaking for his church, which led to speaking for another, et cetera. But sometimes I'd be in the pulpit, and as I'm speaking, all of a sudden I would realize that woman right there is vulnerable because I'd read all the signs that I learned how in those bars and strip clubs. And I'd feel so guilty about it after it's gone, I'm so sorry, and finally I realized you get innocence again spiritually, but you don't get innocence again factually. It's like I can to this day still read those vulnerabilities. But but I don't feel guilty about it anymore because I know I'm not looking for them, and I certainly wouldn't do anything about them, but that's something I learned in that period of time that's gonna be there as long as I'm in this body. God, God's grace is sufficient. And so you guys are listening out there, you lions, if you've ever done anything wrong, I know there have been flashbacks. I mean, I'm talking about something which you're I'm Well, you know what I'm saying. You have flashbags. Don't don't spend time dwelling on them, please, because they'll they'll dig into you. And not only can they lead you to not appreciating, feeling the grace and mercy of God where you feel forgiven, but those temptations can take root again if you let them. I mean, they were powerful once. They can be again. And therefore, Chris, the kind of thing you do where Christian men are helping Christian men, so powerful. I have one friend that when we were talking on the phone, the first question he asks, because of those years I spent hanging out in bars, first question he asks anytime we talk, you sober? Yeah, yeah, I'm sober. Hey, you holy? Yeah, by the grace and power of God, I'm holy. And and we need men who will challenge us like that, that we know are not being mean and vicious. Right. So that's that's the essence of my story. And that's really what the book is about. How to not only be forgiven, right, but how to feel God's forgiveness. I love it. I love it.

Chris Grainger 35:48

Yeah, I just want to take another quick break with Dr. Joe. We'll be right back. If there's one habit that can change a home, it's this when a husband prays with his wife, not because it's a magic formula, but because it recenters your marriage under God's authority and care. And let's be honest, a lot of guys want to do it, but most don't know how to start without it feeling awkward. Maybe you've tried it before and it felt forced, or maybe you've never tried it because you don't even know what to say. Or maybe you're thinking, man, I'm not a pastor, I'm just a guy. And that's why we created this guide. It's our how to pray with your wife. Simple guide. It's biblical, it's practical, and it's designed to help you start praying with your wife in a way that actually feels natural. So it's a five-section guide and it gives you a simple framework to get started. Okay, it makes sure everything is grounded in scripture, and it also has a powerful PDF that you can pull up whenever you need, especially when things get off, because they're gonna get off. That's normal. So this is all about reclaiming your marriage and reclaiming the spiritual leadership reigns of your home. Because praying with your wife is one of the strongest ways to fight for unity, to build trust, and to write the ship when life starts to pull you off a course. So if you're ready, get access today at the lionwithin.us slash guides. That's the lionwithin.us slash guides, and start unleashing the lion within at home by leading your marriage through prayer. So, Dr. Joe, I talked to a lot of guys and they, you know, they're struggling

How To Pray With Your Wife

Chris Grainger 37:31

with their marriage, maybe they've had that infidelity, such as such as your story, but the reconciliation is not happening, or they're struggling to figure out how that how to repair something that's so been broken to that degree. Your story, obviously, you guys came back together, you you're married, your your marriage from everything that we talked about is was thriving. But in that moment, what did that look like? Can you get some advice or some tips for guys on how to approach that just from from from your expertise? Yeah, happy to, Chris.

Joe Beam 38:03

Thank you. When uh I finally uh decided to ask Alice if she would take me back. We'd been divorced at that point three years, and she was already dating somebody else. Uh I did see her every other weekend because I saw my children every other weekend.

Chris Grainger 38:20

So you had that custody agreement, right? Okay. Yeah.

Joe Beam 38:24

Mm-hmm. And so one Sunday afternoon, I picked up the phone and I called her and I said, Would you be willing to consider the possibility of taking me back? And and she had been seeing the changes in me as I had been started back to church and all those kinds of things. So she'd been seeing the changes in me. Now, this other guy obviously had no desire for her to see me at all. You know, he was dating her and she's a beautiful woman, so forth and so on. And she had every right, you know, to date him because we were divorced, I had committed adultery, all that kind of thing. But she said, Why do you want to get back together? Are you have you fallen in love with me again or something? And and if I had said yes, first it would have been a lie. Secondly, she would have known it would have been a lie. So I said, no, no. I just I just believe it's the right thing to do. Well, she spent a couple of weeks asking people, thinking about it, and finally she accepted the fact that she would take me back. Now, here's some of the things that made a big difference. I said to

Rebuilding After Infidelity With Honesty

Joe Beam 39:24

her, I will tell you the truth about everything. But here's the deal. If you ask me a question, I'll tell you the truth. But the first time I'm going to ask is, Do you really want to know the answer to that question? Because once I tell you, I can't untell you. And so she'd asked me questions, and I'd said, Do you really want to know the answer to that question? You see, by the grace of God, she didn't ask any questions that create a visual. So for example, Chris, she didn't say, Did you kiss that woman? Now you understand a lot of different verbs could go there. And she didn't ask that. And if she had, I would have told the truth, yes, whatever question she could have asked, I would have told the truth. But then she would have had a visual in her head. First of all, it would have been inaccurate. It'd be what her imagination conjured up. And secondly, long after I'm healed and past that, she'd still be dealing with it. So we advise couples, if if your spouse asks you for a visual, whatever it is that you've done that's hurt your marriage, ask them for the grace not to give the visual. You know, I don't want to really love that. I'm sure you don't want to really live that. So let's let's not go through that. I'm not hiding anything from you. It's just gonna hurt us. Now, this, Chris, is where sometimes having a good coach who knows what he or she's doing can help, because the coach can, as a, as a third party who is unbiased, can say, I I say the same thing. Let's not let's not look into that. Because if they do, it just makes things harder. Okay. And then, but in that total honesty, we also have a thing that we now call calculative trust. We didn't call it that back then. And and uh we did by the grace of God some things that now we teach people to do that nobody had taught us. By the grace of God, we figured it out. Calculative trust basically says I'm gonna make myself so accountable to you for a period of time that you can handle a lot of money, therefore you're not worried about where it goes. Uh uh, if I'm gonna be five minutes late, I'll call you and tell you where I am. Uh I'll I'll give you the phone records so you can see who I talk to. You can look at my texts, et cetera, et cetera. I'm gonna make myself completely open and vulnerable to you so that you don't have to worry about what I'm doing. Now, I couldn't have lived like that the rest of my life because I would have felt like I was a child. Pardon me, allergies are messing me up here, brother. I would have felt I was being treated like a child, but I could do that for about 10, 11, 12 months, and I did. So that she didn't have to worry about a thing. Now, we had a couple, we worked with marriages in crisis, and we just finished one of our workshops yesterday. It's towards her three-day intensives. We had a couple there, and uh they'd been married 11 years, and and uh uh she was 32, he was 35, not that that's particularly relevant, I just happen to remember that. And uh he had had an affair. They're both Christian people, very much involved in the church. He'd had an affair, and she doesn't want to forgive him. Uh she's like, I'm hurt, I want to move on, how could he do that to me? And they were in our workshop, not because she was there to reconcile the marriage, but because of the fact that they still have three children together, and it's like, you know, how are we going to co-parent this? So let's go to the workshop and learn some principles about how to get along with each other. And and there she was on the last day in tears, because I'm so hurt. I don't want to forgive him. I don't want to move on yet. Yet I know God wants me to forgive him, but I don't want to reconcile to him. And so what we do is we teach them a series. It's actually a five-step kind of thing. We use our fingers to teach it to them. We teach them a process to go through. And if you go through this step, this is, and and and I'm gonna give very briefly first ease. That's what this finger does. You've got to learn how to talk to each other again first, where that there's no acrimony, no fussing, fighting that you can actually talk to each other calmly. And then explore, and we give them different things they have to explore about each other and about their relationship. Won't get into all that now, but explore steps very, very important. The things you need to talk about, the things you need to look into. Once you can be calmly talking to each other again. And then the next one is explain, which is all right, now this is where you're basically gonna start saying, how are we gonna deal with these things we found in the explorer here? How are we gonna deal with this? And that's kind of where they negotiate. Like, okay, how are we gonna deal with that? And sometimes it's not negotiation. Uh one guy, for example, said when she brought the kids back for my my three days, or actually the eight weeks when he she brought the kids back for my week, I could smell the alcohol on her breath as she pulled up and let the kids out. Well, that's not negotiable. It's like you you will not drink when you have the kids in the car. And you will not drink when the kids are with you. And so we teach them how to do that. You know, how do you make the absolutes and the things you can negotiate on, how to negotiate. And then over here is engage, and that's when you make a decision as to what you're going to do. And over here is excel, and that's okay, here's how you make it last for the rest of your life. Now, we spend an hour and a half explaining that, and I just gave it to you in two minutes. But there's actually a process because what we have discovered, Chris, if a couple just moves back in together without figuring out how to repair some things, fix some things, it often goes badly because they wind up making some. Pretty serious mistakes. And if they know how to do it, then they can. But the keys, some of the keys absolute and total honesty. Transparency. You can't hide anything. Total and complete transparency. Understanding that there will not always be perfection. That that one of you is going to get mad one day out of the blue for apparently no reason and it's going to be a bad day, just because some of those emotions pop back up, and you're not going to let the fact that occasionally things don't work well in the whole process. It's just part of the process of getting past the pain, the hurt, those kinds of things. And learning how to make a commitment with each other and learning why. And we actually teach people from the psychological world. There's ten different reasons to be committed to a person. Let's help you examine what those ten reasons are. And understand that sometimes, on some days, the only thing that's going to hold you together is commitment. Because some days you're going to be going, I don't know if I'm going to do this or not. But commitment. Commitment can take you to the next day. So there actually are processes for all those things. And those processes are very biblical in nature. And they were. Now, you say some of the guys are saying, man, that sounds great, but my wife won't do that. Well, don't try to force her. Forcing her is going to lead to more and more problems. But if you can help her see how this will benefit her, if you have children, how it'll benefit the children, and if she still cares for you, how it'll benefit you, you can you can actually get this to happen. We have witnessed Chris people forgiving things that you'd never think anybody could forgive. Ever. But forgive it, heal and move on and have great lives together. We don't typically get on the radio and say this, but if a couple can get past a major trauma in their marriage, the marriage is almost always stronger, stronger than it was before that happened. Now the reason I wouldn't get on radio or television and say that's because some dummy is going to go, well, dang, I love my wife. I think I'll go have an affair so we can love each other more. You know, some guy would interpret it that way. No, no, no, no. If it's an affair or whatever it might be, your your marriage is not going to be stronger because of the affair. It's going to be stronger because of what you learn about yourself, about each other, about how you can get past bad things. And so often, Chris, particularly if it's a wife, but I've had husbands ask me the same thing, because the wife can be the one who strays or does the thing that causes the problems. And so let's just say it's a wife. Well, well, I'm thinking of one right now. Her husband, who was a minister, got arrested. He was breaking into cars at the YMCA and stealing computers and selling them. And uh, yeah. Well, he got caught, got arrested. For some reason, his church fired him. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so she was asking me, should I try to work this out or not? And I said, here's the question. Is he a good man who did a bad thing? Is he a bad man who did a bad thing? If he's a bad man who did a bad thing, you're not going to change him. Only God can do that. But if he is a good man who did a bad thing, then he's worth rescuing. Well, he's not a good man right now. Well, if he's doing something bad, I know he's not a good man right now. But is that good man still in there? If so, he's worth rescuing, bringing back to God. And and Chris, I'm sure you've seen this. You're a man, you've been around, you know life. People who have strayed and then come back with a true conversion, I mean, total yielding of their hearts to God, don't become perfect, still have their flaws, still some days find themselves tempted, but they're not the same people anymore. Right. Much better, much better than they were before. Because they've unfortunately learned it the hard way.

Chris Grainger 50:05

Where does repentance come in? Because I mean that's when I look at Al's story and I even hear your story, and sometimes when I'm talking with guys, the the repentance is is not there. And I and that and I try to tell like for me, based off everything I've learned and seen and God has shown

Repentance Means Full Responsibility

Chris Grainger 50:22

me, until repentance is there, then you know that's that's reconciliation is not possible. And I don't know.

Joe Beam 50:30

Brie woe wholeheartedly, 100%. Is it Psalm 32 where David talked about the fact that it felt like his bones were breaking, it felt like he was his strength was sapped as in the heat of summer. What he's describing is depression. And then he says, I acknowledged my sin. And then in Psalm 51, after he sent with Bathsheba, he says, I did it. I did it. And Lord, you're totally justified in everything that you do here. As you know, the baby died and some other bad things happened. Lord, you're totally justified because this is my fault. I did it. When people take responsibility for the behavior, full responsibility, without making excuses. That's why I kept saying earlier, those things did not excuse what I did. The only reason I look at them is to help me understand how I got into that situation. But they didn't excuse what I did when I owed a. And and when you make confession, never do it with qualification. Well, yeah, I did that, but you know, it's because that doesn't, that's not true repentance. We had a mayor here in Nashville of years ago. She was sleeping with her chief bodyguard. She was married to another man, he was married to another woman, they were sleeping with each other. She got caught, and of course, the scandal and et cetera. And here's what she said to people. Well, I made a mistake. I wrote an article about it. She didn't make a mistake. She knew what she was doing. Exactly. She knew what she was doing. Making a mistake, that's like I hit the wrong key on the keyboard. That's a mistake. That's right. You didn't make a mistake, you made a choice. And you made a bad choice. Now, it it probably was not the first choice. It was built up to, like we talked about earlier. But well, one of my friends was going to confess before the church a sin that had hurt the church, as well as his own family. And he said, Okay, Joe, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get up and say, I made a mistake and I apologize. And I said, Don't you dare. First of all, it wasn't a mistake. You knew what you were doing and you did it on purpose, and you didn't just do it once. And apologize, in my opinion, is a pretty weak word. He said, Well, what do you think I should do? Well, if it's from the heart, you get up and say, I sinned. There's no justification for what I did. I am so very sorry. And I ask if you can, if you will, please forgive me. You confess it. That's what and and and and but you have to repent. It can't just be confession. Because as you know, Chris, there are people who've manipulated with so-called confessions that weren't based on genuine repentance.

Chris Grainger 53:31

100%. Yeah, I mean they're they're saying what they think the other person wants to hear versus a true heart. A true heart, you know, turning giving it to God and and confession. So 100%. And I mean, what do you think for guys that that repentance and and I almost think I think I want to ask it this way, almost like when I talk to guys these days, we don't we don't acknowledge acknowledge sin. It's almost like we just have these struggles or these errors, these hurdles, or headwinds versus just calling a a duck a duck. No man, it's a sin, bro.

Joe Beam 54:05

Like it's a big thing. It is good for you. I'm glad you're doing that, brother. We live in a culture where nobody wants to take responsibility. Right. And and have you noticed, though, that particularly young among young men, uh, a lot of them are flocking back to church. But the churches they're flocking to are churches that are very um liturgical, very organized. Like, for example, they're they're flocking back to the Greek Orthodox or things like that. And you say, well, why? What they're looking for is structure. They're looking for a sense of what's right and wrong. And and there are many evangelical churches who have abandoned that. Well, you know, and they want this is right, this is wrong. I want to do what's right, I don't want to do what's wrong. And and that's a that's a thing that's beginning to happen, particularly among young men, is a phenomenon. Now, young women as well, but not nearly as much. And evangelical churches, of which I'm a part, obviously, um, if if we don't stand up and talk about sin, which interestingly we don't. Our sermons are basically about how to live better lives, which are which are good. But but where's the thou shalt not as well as the thou shalt? I'm with your brother. Sin's sin. And and we've got to be not mean, but true. Right. Right. I bet you do that, don't you?

Chris Grainger 55:51

Oh, I mean, I oh you have to because I feel like everything thing these days is so watered down, it's so seeker-friendly. Uh I mean, it's all grace, and I get the grace part, but it's also a truth part, and we gotta uh stop running from that and and recognize it now. And I'm I've talked to so many guys, Joe, now, I mean, God's blessed it, but it's like, you know, after a third or fourth time of you telling me that your issue and you felt you fall again, I'm like, wait a minute, bo, this let's really dive into what's going on here. Like, you know, no one's making you click on Pornhub and spend an hour where you should be spending time with your wife. So can we just call out it's time to buckle up and be a man and stop hiding behind these excuses? And those conversations usually they run, you know, they don't last very long. And either they're gonna recognize it or they're just gonna leave. Quite a few of them do just leave. But uh, I mean, I just I think this this this coddling has gotta stop. Gotta stop.

Joe Beam 56:48

Yeah. And in the using the words of uh rock and roll, there's a highway to hell but a stairway to heaven. That's it. It's it's a matter of, my friend, of we've got to be telling people the truth. And not I don't mean to be mean about it, but sometimes you've got to be very direct. Like that's just wrong. Right. And if you keep doing that, here are the consequences. Here's what's gonna happen. Which is what happened to King David, as you know. Well, God's not gonna make you die for what you did. Right. But you're gonna pay fourfold. Hmm, the baby died. Uh, one of his daughters got raped by her half brother. Her full brother kills that half brother. The half brother comes back and starts an insurrection. Fourfold. There are always consequences. And when David in Psalm 51, he basically that's what he's saying, God. He said, You're you're blameless in everything you do about this. Right. I cause this. It's not you. I cause this. There are consequences to my behavior. Man, that's repentance. Right. That's repentance. Right. I bet you could preach one in an amazing sermon on Psalm 51 and David. I'd love to hear you do that.

Chris Grainger 58:06

Well, you just have to you have to stand on it. You gotta stand on the word, and you gotta keep bringing guys back to it. And we've got to stop abdicating our responsibilities here. And you know, and I hear so many guys come to me too, and this kind of as we get towards the end, they keep telling me, Joe, they're like, How can I win her back? Like, I got I gotta do something. How can I how can I win my wife back and or my girlfriend back? And you know, and they they had this hurt, and my feedback always 100% of the time, and you correct me if I'm wrong, is like stop trying to win her and you be the man that God's called you to be. Like if you just figure that out, bro, then that is gonna because it sounds like to me that's what work God worked on you in that time. You didn't win her back immediately. You had to work on some Joe issues, and then once that got corrected and she saw the fruit of that, and she were connected to the vine, then that drew her into it to a pot to reconciliation and acceptance. But just like it's not a man, I can't throw a ball down the field and just expect that to be the pass that wins her back. And so I and I feel like guys are looking for that shortcut versus like, no, this is a huge issue, fix that first and then let God do what God does.

Joe Beam 59:12

Amen and amen. That's good stuff right there, brother. Amen and amen.

Chris Grainger 59:17

Well, at least I'm not. You heard it from Dr. Joe. He says I'm not crazy. So anyway, fellas.

Joe Beam 59:23

Well, well, we we may both be crazy, but I'm agreeing with you 100%. And we tell people all the time stop trying to save your marriage. Look at you. We tell people that all. Now we have like 1,200 free videos on YouTube helping people live with various problems in their marriages. I like it. YouTube.com slash marriage helper. Right. Over 1,200 free videos. But none of those are gonna make any difference if people don't do what you just said. That's right.

Chris Grainger 59:53

Well, Joe, I knew this was gonna be awesome. I'm so thankful for you just taking time to come back on. And I know you've already I'm sorry, go ahead.

Joe Beam 1:00:02

No, I I appreciate you inviting me.

Chris Grainger 1:00:04

I I think you're a cool dude, man. I appreciate that. My wife thinks so too. You know, that's how I got

Lightning Round And Final Warnings

Chris Grainger 1:00:09

her. But uh That's great. But we do have a fun, I'd like to do another quick little lightning round with you, uh different than the one we did last time. So I just have like to have a little bit of fun with you at the end. So if you're willing to play, we'll jump right into it. Okay. All right. Well, coffee or tea. What what's your what's your go-to, Joe? Coffee or tea? Is it what you said?

Joe Beam 1:00:30

Uh-huh.

Chris Grainger 1:00:31

Coffee. Coffee, coffee, man. All right, mountains or beach.

Joe Beam 1:00:35

Mountains. Mountains? Okay. All right. Uh, what's one word your wife would use to describe you? Caring. Caring? Okay. What's what's the best decade of music for you, Joe?

Chris Grainger 1:00:50

Best decade of music? Yeah. 60s. 60s? Okay. What's your old guy? You're an old guy. What's your who's your favorite from the 60s? Who what who do you like to look at?

Joe Beam 1:01:04

And 60s, even into the 70s. For example, I'm I'm an Eagles fan, and they really came along in the 70s. But I'll say 60s and 70s, but I I still listen to a lot of 60s music, man. There you go. What's hard? I've got to listen to the 50s doo-wop.

Chris Grainger 1:01:20

Oh, there you go. There you go. So, what's what's harder for you? Uh, counseling couples or airport travel? Oh, working with couples by far. That can be challenging, right? Yeah. Oh, be.

Joe Beam 1:01:37

So what what's your favorite comfort food? Favorite comfort food? Yeah. Ice cream.

Chris Grainger 1:01:43

Oh man, let's go. I love ice cream. Is there a flavor? What's your flavor, Joe?

Joe Beam 1:01:49

Uh, I like the uh rocky road kind of stuff. Right, right. Or cookies and cream, you know, something like that. There you go.

Chris Grainger 1:01:59

What's the most underrated marriage habit? Most underrated marriage ta tactic? Habit. Like a like a habit in our marriages. What's the most underrated one if you think?

Joe Beam 1:02:12

Being there.

Chris Grainger 1:02:14

Being there.

Joe Beam 1:02:15

Just being there. Even if you're not even talking, if you're sitting next to each other on the sofa, you might both be reading. But just the just being there has an amazing effect on people. Okay. Okay.

Chris Grainger 1:02:29

What do you hope the guys listening, and and maybe even the ladies listening to this one, Dr. Joe, what do you hope they remember the most from our conversation today?

Joe Beam 1:02:41

There's always vulnerabilities. And and and there are always possibilities. But you've got to prevent ever getting to the probability. Because once you get to the probability, those things become more and more powerful. And once you get those brain chemicals involved, like dopamine, the closer you get to the temptation, the more difficult it becomes to resist. Therefore, and we didn't really say this, but therefore, be filled with the spirit. Be filled with the spirit. I wrote that.

Chris Grainger 1:03:14

I wrote it right here: vulnerability to possibility to probability. I'm on this book here for permission. I like to use that.

Joe Beam 1:03:21

Absolutely. And then reality. Oh, there you go. Reality. I'll tell you what, I'll send you a PowerPoint of just that one slide. How about that?

Chris Grainger 1:03:30

I'd love it.

Joe Beam 1:03:31

I'll email it to you.

Chris Grainger 1:03:32

I'd love to have that. And and and where, Joe, I mean, I know this book. How old is this book, by the way? Getting past guilt. Oh my goodness. It came out in the 90s. In the 90s. Okay. So around the same time, we're pretty close to seeing the unseen then.

Joe Beam 1:03:46

Yeah, seeing the unseen was first. It came out first in 94. I think that one came out first in 98.

Chris Grainger 1:03:53

But was it was it called something different? Because I feel like Al told me it was.

Joe Beam 1:04:06

And so we changed the title so people would understand what the book was really about.

Chris Grainger 1:04:10

Okay. Because I know in in the in his uh in the movie Faith and Forgiveness, the original title was the one that out, you know, the actor was holding. Okay. Gotcha. So where where do you want guys on I know you're doing some great work right now, where would you point them to connect with you and the wonderful things that you build at Marriage Helper and all the things that you're doing, Dr. Joe?

Joe Beam 1:04:33

Well, it would be simple enough to come to our website, Marriage Helper. That's marriagehelper, marriagehelper.com. Okay. And we have all kinds of resource resources. And if you want to look at the videos, youtube.com slash marriage helper.

Chris Grainger 1:04:48

So that's the primary two places you want to send them. Okay. That's right. All right. And we'd we'd love to help. Dr. Joe, anything else you'd like to share today?

Joe Beam 1:04:56

No, Chris, thank you. I appreciate what you do, man. I think you're genuine and real, and that's the key. That's the key to everything. Authenticity.

Chris Grainger 1:05:05

Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you for your time, guys. Thanks for listening to this one. Come back next time. Guys, I told you it's going to be a great one. I'm so thankful for Dr. Joe for coming back on again. So thankful for Al for recommending it, this conversation again. This one matters. They all matter. Let's just

Resources, Question Of The Week, Closing

Chris Grainger 1:05:22

be honest. But this one, fellas, for the marriages that are out there that are battling, that are on the verge of just giving up, this matters so much. So the question of the week this week where are you allowing shame to keep you isolated and silent? Because that shame, fellas, could be what's holding you back from actually repairing what needs to be. Okay. And look, if you need encouragement, if you need help with that, this is what we have the line within us for, guys. We've built this platform to bring guys together to be a source of hope and encouragement for each other. But it only works if you lean in. And guys, you get that at thelinewithin.us. You can get all our resources there. Daily SKO, the Lion's Den, the Leadership Mastermind. We have lots of new things coming up. Maybe you want to get a copy of Unleashing Your Lion Within, the book on Amazon. If you don't want to read the book, you can listen to it. It's on Audible version on Amazon. So we have lots of ways we can connect with you on that, fellas, as well. Or open up the Bible app. Just simply open the Bible app up. Search for The Lion Within Us. And guys, there are so many plans right there at your fingertips, ready to walk with you, ready to serve you no matter where you're at in life. Okay? So, guys, all that stuff matters. Go to the lionwithin.us, support us. Donate to the show. We have the 501c3 set up, fellas. This is the Lion Within Us Ministries. We want to serve and help and equip others to be the men that God has called them to be, He intends them to be, but we can't do it without your help. Because I firmly believe that when men step up and lead the way that God intends, everything improves. It just gets better. So we need your support in that fight. It takes resources, it takes time, it takes commitment, and we are committed. So the lionwithin.us is where you find that, guys. If you listen to this podcast, please give us a rating and review. Make a comment if you if you watch it on YouTube, make a comment. If you're if you're on Spotify, you can actually comment on Spotify now. Please, I'd ask you to comment on Spotify. That helps the algorithm, that gets it out in front of more and more people. We engage with those comments, each and every one of them. So we need your support there. Okay, guys? That's it. Other than that, come back on Friday. We have a great member spotlight. I'm so excited for you guys to get to meet this member. He has an awesome name, by the way. Haha, I'm going to tell you what it is, but check it out. You'll see it on coming up here in a couple of days. So thanks for listening. Thanks for hanging out. Guys, have a great day. Fight for your marriage. And if you need to learn some of these resources, go get this book, Getting Past Guilt, Embracing God's Forgiveness from Dr. Joe Bean. All right, guys. We'll see you next time. You th only see The Lion within. It's time to stop neglecting the body that God gave you. And we're done making excuses and watching discipline slip. So we decided it's time to rebuild strength the right way. And we have our Health Stronghold Support Group, which is a dedicated space inside the lion's den, specifically for men who are ready to stew their bodies with discipline and purpose. Look, this is not just for guys trying to lose weight. Let's just clear that up. This is for guys who know that energy affects you how you lead, your habits affect how you lead your family, and discipline affects your calling. And most guys don't need another workout plan or some extreme diet ideas. They need a stronghold. They need to have a place where they can hear other men say that I fall into. I want consistency, not shortcuts. So inside our health stronghold, you're gonna find real conversations around physical health and discipline, honest discussions about habits, setbacks, and progress, and encouragement for men pursuing strength. This comes with a monthly call with one of our trusted guys as well. So look, it's not about vanity, it's about stewardship. It's a place to train without shame and pursue strength without comparison. You don't have to impress anybody. You don't have to have it all figured out. You just gotta show up. So the health stronghold is found inside the lion's den. And you can start a 30-day free trial today. So if you're ready to stop drifting, head over to thelionwithin.us. That's thhelionwithin.us. And hop inside the lion's den. Start your 30 day free trial and get started today at thelionwithin.us