Welcome And Daily SKO Invite

Chris Grainger 0:57

Welcome to The Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, meet episode time. Let's get into it. Okay. So scripture of the week this week is Proverbs 15, verse 22, which says, without consultation, plans are frustrated. But with many counselors, they succeed. And guys, I unpacked that verse at length in a spiritual kickoff episode. So go one back in your podcast feed. Check it out. We do that Monday through Friday. I know it sounds like a broken record, but I'm just telling you guys this is a big deal. Monday through Friday, we do a daily SKO. We don't put it anywhere else. We don't put it on YouTube. It stays within the Lion Within Us. It's a great way for us to serve you. And also gives you access to our prayer request space where we have a weekly prayer call on Mondays. Okay. So, guys, all this is free. This is a great way to get connected. And we are even doing a free gift for you guys right now. If you want a free gift from the Lion Within Us, and this is something you're going to really enjoy. I'm telling you, I'm not trying to blow smoke. This is a cool little gift. We're going to hook you up with it. Go to the linewithin.us, start your daily spiritual kickoff, and then get and claim your free gift, okay? All right. This is going to be a fun one, fellas. Don Ross, he's the founder of Manhood Tribes. Okay. So Don has served as a pastor, ministry leader for a couple decades, and he's worked with men in a many different settings. And he and I got connected and just uh it just made sense. He's pretty close to me here in Raleigh. Uh great guy. He loves outdoors. Uh just a fun dude to be around. And he's going to unpack the whole idea of what a tribe would look would look like for you. Now, for us at the Lion, we talk about the Lion's Den, right? But what Don does is a lot is just a different approach where they're getting together in person on a consistent basis. And he kind of gives a framework, framework for what works well for them. So, guys, check it out. It's going to be a great conversation. I know you're going to enjoy it. Again, he lives in Raleigh. He's got two sons. Uh, and he also says he has a slight addiction to Coke Zero. So have some fun with that. All right, guys. Enjoy this conversation with Don Ross. Don, welcome to the Lion Within Us. How are you doing, man? Thanks, Chris. It's good to be here. Excited to have you here, brother. Yeah, me too. Anytime I can get Carolina guys on, that's a good day. Absolutely, man. This is a good place to be. Somebody was asking me the other day, like, man, you know, where should you move? I'm like, there's only one answer to that, man. North Carolina. Like, that's it. So let's it is really fantastic.

Don Ross 3:16

My wife and I have lived kind of all over, and uh, we love being here in North Carolina.

Chris Grainger 3:20

And you're kind of central, right? You're you're in Raleigh area, right? Yeah, we're in the Raleigh uh kind of metro area, that's right. Yep. Yeah, we're not too far from you, man. So looking forward to this one for sure. Hey, before we get into it, like tell us something fun about you, Don, that maybe not many people know about, man.

Don Ross 3:36

Uh gosh, I could pick from a number of things, but um, let's say uh one is that I am an absolute water bug. Like I I love uh the ocean. I love uh going to the mountains and being in the rivers. Um I love whitewater rafting. I'm trying to get into kayaking. So I love just kind of like simple kayaking, but one of my goals over the next few years is actually to get into whitewater kayaking uh and and kind of learn to pick that up. So uh yeah, I I I love the water.

Chris Grainger 4:05

Hey, brother. That's cool, man. You know, and another another plug from North Carolina. I think North Carolina should start paying us, but anyway. Right.

Don Ross 4:14

Hey, man, there's a definitely a good place to be for all of those things. So uh that's one of the reasons that I love being here.

Chris Grainger 4:21

Love it, love it, man. Well, well, yeah, let our listeners, some of our listeners may not know who you are. So give us a little bit of your testimony and your background, buddy.

Don’s Story From Medicine To Ministry

Don Ross 4:28

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, so I'm Don Ross. I'm uh I'm the founder of Manhood Tribes, and uh I'll explain a little bit about what Manhood Tribes is. But uh to get there, probably I should back up and uh and just share a little bit about kind of where I came from. I've I've uh I've worked in a ministry career of some kind for uh pretty much my entire adult career, so 20, 20 plus years now at this point, but didn't really plan on that. Uh actually went to college planning on being a doctor and uh had a really kind of a transformative process in college where I had got involved in a college ministry and God got a hold of my heart in some ways that I really just fell in love with him and uh with doing ministry with others and made some decisions at the end of my time in college to say, I think this medicine plan is a good plan, but it's really more of a plan that's about me. And I really need to try to follow God where it is that uh that he's leading and what it is that he wants of me. And that became really clear that that was not into medicine. And so instead I've decided to go into ministry. And I started out working in uh college ministry, actually worked for the ministry that I had been a part of in college for a little while, met my wife there, and uh we got married. We did that for a number of years, and then uh left that. I went to seminary and then started working in churches as a pastor for a number of years. Really, in all of those places though, whether that was uh with college students or on staff at a church, I find myself just kind of drawn towards working with men. And whether that was actually my job or not, uh I just I just kind of began to see like, you know, whatever that we were doing ministry-wise, there was a real need for working with guys. Like guys seemed to have some unique needs that were not always being well addressed, either by churches or by ministries. And uh and I just began to develop a heart there. Some of that was out of my own story, uh, out of kind of having grown up, you know, very similarly to a lot of guys uh in my age and stage of life, um, having grown up with a uh, you know, boomer generation dad who was, I would say, kind of like physically present, but not really emotionally or relationally present, you know, kind of saw his role as dad as being a provider and not much else. And so I grew up with a lot of questions of what did it mean to be a man and was I a man and how would I know if I was one? And, you know, just a lot of kind of like confusion really around all of that and kind of a longing for uh looking for more just in the whole area of what it meant to be a man and masculinity and all of those things. And the more questions that I started to ask, the more that I realized lots of guys around me were asking the same questions. And so that was really, I think, some of what drove me to the place of saying, okay, I think we as churches and uh as ministry leaders can really do a better job of working with and for men to be able to help serve them in the way that they're trying to walk with Jesus. Because notoriously, uh churches tend to be really bad at doing anything for men at all. Uh and that was kind of my experience, like both trying to do it myself and just being a part of churches, was just sort of watching, like whether it was men's groups or men's events or, you know, you name it, just the things that uh we were trying to do for guys either weren't working or uh guys were just kind of repeatedly telling us, either verbally or by just not showing up, hey, I'm I'm just not interested in this. Like this, this isn't doing anything for me. It's not helping me, it's not something that I'm really motivated to show up to. So kind of over time, um I had invested a lot in uh for most of my time in church ministry, I was uh basically like a small groups pastor or community pastor or something along those lines. And so I, you know, I knew a lot about small groups. And so that was where I really tried to sort of invest my energy and say, I think probably we could do a better job at building what a what a really good men's group looks like. And so that's where I really started to say, okay, I I think I just want to take a stab at that and try to figure that thing out in particular. What would it look like to build a better men's group? And so actually about uh seven, seven, eight years ago now, I started working on this new model of uh what I call, I now call a tribe and uh really trying to create that. And so uh I started up my own tribe seven years ago. It's uh it's still going now. Um, and uh it's been one of the most transformative experiences of my life. Uh it's a group of guys that I absolutely love and couldn't imagine doing life without. And uh yeah, after doing that for a few years, began to really just sense the Lord telling me like it was time to help other men be able to figure out how to do that as well. And uh, and so yeah, that's when I actually made the decision to kind of step away from full-time church ministry and try to figure out uh how I could begin to do this in a way that served other men in their local church context and kind of whatever way I could be a help. So for the past several years, um, I have been kind of doing uh manhood tribes as sort of a side hustle thing, trying to get this up and off the ground, helping men build their tribes. And uh, and I work full-time now in digital marketing, believe it or not. So uh a radical shift from church ministry, but something that's helped me to kind of pick up some skills uh to help men in the in the digital space. So it's been a good thing.

Chris Grainger 9:38

Well, I mean, digital marketing, you're just trying to get attention and awareness, brother. And that's hard to do with guys, man. We don't we don't is hard to do, it's really hard to do. Man, hats all to you. I mean, that that ministry component. And I can't believe you said churches don't do men's ministry well. I mean, come on, bro. Are you kidding me? I'm just just being facetious here. But but it's like Saturday morning with the sausage biscuit and like sitting around listening to some former football player who used to do blow off of hookers and like that. I just don't relate to that, man. Like, like I just we've all been to that event though, right?

Don Ross 10:10

Every one of us. Yeah.

Chris Grainger 10:11

And it's like, wait a minute now, I'm pretty sure that's not uh say anyway. I just hats off to you for recognizing that and for taking the step. And I mean, love how you call it tribes too, brother. So I mean, what is a like give us a breakdown of what a tribe looks like, like number of guys, and like what what is that how does that feel?

Why Men Disengage From Church Groups

Tribe Pillars Manhood Camaraderie Freedom

Don Ross 10:27

Yeah. So uh in terms of you know, the just the like structure of a group, it's not gonna necessarily feel tremendously different from you know a men's small group or men's Bible study that you've been to. It's probably about five to eight guys that make up a tribe. So it is still kind of a small group feel. But in terms of the actual like format and uh, you know, content of what we do in a tribe, that's where it gets radically different. So um I would say, I would say a few things. And I'll give I'll give you a little bit of context here before I kind of give the specifics on what we do in a tribe. One of the things that I began to notice is I started looking at, you know, why is it that church small groups were working really well for women, but not so much from men? You know, what was the deal? Like every church or ministry I was a part of, we had twice as many women's groups as we did men's groups, you know, at least um well more women involved in groups than men overall. And I just started to kind of ask those questions like, why is that? What like, why is that the deal? And uh what I began to see as I kind of, you know, peeled back the layers, looked under the hood, uh, was that the the model of a church group is really built around the felt needs of women. So and by felt needs, I just mean like the things that live on the surface of like what are motivators for women versus motivators for men. Women are motivated by things like getting together just for social interaction, right? They they enjoy being together just for the sake of being social. Uh, women are motivated uh and they feel like they've accomplished something when they learn something. So women enjoy study, they enjoy discussion, they enjoy learning information. All those things are good. And you can look at uh any other kind of study about our education system at the moment as well that shows why girls are doing better in school than boys are, it's you know, for a lot of the very same reasons. Women are motivated and feel like they've accomplished something when they learn things. Uh, women are also more uh emotionally oriented than guys are. That doesn't mean that guys don't have emotions, that we don't need to know and understand our emotions. It just means that uh women tend to be that that kind of lives on the surface for them. It's a place where it's a little easier for them to interact is around emotional topics. And so a lot of our church groups are built around these things, right? They are built around the idea of doing some kind of a Bible study or a book study where the goal is to uh read and engage with written material and to learn things. And the, you know, that's that's basically the goal is to access and acquire new information. Um, it's also kind of uh built around like having some kind of an emotional experience from that, like I feel inspired or I feel encouraged or I feel comforted or, you know, whatever the emotion is. Uh it's really kind of, you know, those are the outcomes that we're looking for from those kinds of groups. All of these things are, they're not bad, right? There's there's nothing wrong with any of that. They just aren't the things that really motivate men. They're not the felt needs of men. They're not the things that uh encourage men to want to get together. And so that's where I really started to kind of look at like, well, what are the things that motivate men? You know, like what are our felt needs? What would we want to get together for? Um, and they're pretty simple. They're things that you, you know, can like probably pick off the top of your head if you think about it. You know, guys are oriented towards action. Like we like doing things. And if guys get together, it's usually for the sake of some kind of action or activity. We like to be doing something in the way that we interact. Now, that doesn't mean that guys can't get to the place of deep-hearted discussion. We absolutely can and should. And I think that's an important part of what it looks like to interact as men. We just don't start there, right? That's not the chief motivator or the felt need for us. We don't have this like deep hunger to say, I need to get together with some guys and really talk through some stuff. For most guys, that's that's just not how we're wired, you know. But if it's like, hey, I'd I'd love to get together with some guys and uh we're gonna grill hamburgers. Okay, like there's some, there's some actual motivation there of like, okay, that sounds fun. You know, that sounds like something to do. Well, we'll be doing something while we talk to each other. There's there's a little more uh interactivity there around the activity. Um, it it starts to become a place where men are more oriented and engaged. Men also really enjoy challenge. We want to be challenged in things in a way that we can start to see results in our lives, that we see things changing for us. Um and men in our relationships, we really like to build trust. So over time, we want to find guys that are like us, that value the things that we value, and that we are sharing experiences with guys that we can trust. And when we build those things, we continue to come back to those kinds of relationships. When there's trust between men, uh, those are the people that we're gonna really gravitate towards. So anyway, all of that laid out uh is really just kind of foundation work. That's just to say, uh, you know, I looked at men's groups and said, there's not a single group that I know of that's built around those things, that's built around action and activity, that's built around challenge, that's built around trust, right? None of those things were present. So that's where I started to say, okay, what would it look like to build a group around those kinds of things? And that's where I came up with the idea of tribe. And so tribe actually has uh what I call three pillars, and we focus on like three main areas of a tribe. Those three areas are manhood, camaraderie, and freedom. And so these are the things that we uh we kind of work on uh every week in one way, shape, or form to be able to say, as men, we want to be growing in what it means to be a man. That's what you know, manhood is all about. We want to be growing in camaraderie. That's the that's the trust component. That's the you know, building those kinds of relationships with each other. And we want to be growing in freedom. That's really the spiritual aspect of the group, is to say we want to pursue Christ in a way that we are becoming more freed up to be the men that he has created us to be. So whatever things are holding us back from being that kind of man, we want to try to figure out uh how to be able to take those things to him so that he can provide freedom to us to become those things. And then we have ways, and we can talk about more of that, but we have ways that we go after all three of those things and how to be able to make those things happen in each other's lives. Um, but yeah, that's kind of the main components.

Break Sexual Integrity Support Group

Chris Grainger 16:36

Man, that's awesome. So so thankful for you for kind of breaking that down for us, guys. We're gonna take our first break with Don and we'll be right back. It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying this is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without condemnation. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography, it's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30-day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30-day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thelionwithin.us and step inside the lion's den. You recognize the need and now you're feeling it. But I also like to get very practical with our guys listening. Like when you say when you say manhood for guys are getting together, um, are we doing pull-up contests or something like that? What's going on? And may and also just clarify for this tribe, we're not doing like cutting our wrist and rubbing blood together, right? That's not part of it.

Don Ross 18:49

There's none of that.

Chris Grainger 18:50

Okay.

Don Ross 18:50

I mean, I guess if you wanted to, you could, but no, that's not uh it's not a requirement.

Chris Grainger 18:57

Well, yeah, I mean, the well, how about the the manhood component? Like what what would I mean, how does that look like on a typical engagement? Maybe even for like an early group as they're getting started.

Five Marks Of Manhood Explained

Don Ross 19:07

Yeah, so uh manhood is really kind of like that's the easiest place for us to start is uh to be able to say, hey, look, you know, in light of where things are at in our culture right now, there's so much confusion around what does it mean to be a man? And so we just wanted to provide kind of a really clear and simple, if not definition, uh at least just kind of a framework, you know, something to be able to say, here's kind of the goalpost that we're aiming for when it comes to manhood. And so we use something that I call the five marks of manhood. Uh, these things are just traits that have been true of men pretty much throughout history and in nearly every society in the world. They are not necessarily what make you into a Christian man or a biblical man. They are just the things that have been true of men everywhere. And so we kind of say, like, these are the things that men are meant to exhibit, and we want to figure out how to do those things well. So at just a base level, they're really simple things. Uh, the five marks of manhood are strength, courage, skill, honor, and allegiance. Okay, so very fundamental, very foundational things to uh, you know, what it means to be a man is basically to just exhibit those traits. And the good thing about each of them is that you can get better at all five of those marks. So wherever you feel like you are starting from today, that doesn't have to be kind of where you're stuck at for the rest of your life. If you're not feeling particularly manly today, uh learning to grow and get better in the five marks will help you be able to become more of a man and to exhibit more masculinity and confidence in your manhood uh in your life as you continue to grow. So the way that we do that is we create what we call manhood challenges. So once a month in our tribe, we actually have a manhood challenge night where the guys all get together, and this is a little more of a uh fun, kind of lighthearted night. We get together and we actually plan uh these kind of challenges that we are going to do for and with each other. So each guy has to pick one of those five marks and say, this is an area where I know I need to grow and I need to get better. So maybe it is particularly uh a guy's recognizing like I haven't really prioritized strength in my life. And so I've got to do something to uh work a little harder at that. I need to either get back into a rhythm of making uh, you know, strength and conditioning kind of a part of my daily routine, or uh, you know, I've got some kind of physical challenge that I want to prepare for and I need to kind of develop a training routine in advance of that, uh, you know, whatever it is. Um, a guy just kind of saying, like, I know I need to accomplish this thing. Um, and maybe it's just that like, you know, a guy wants to be able to say, I, you know, I've I've kind of been uh a little bit lazy and I'm just sort of sitting around on the couch. I really would love to be able to be the guy who can get out and run a 5K. So he's like, okay, that's my manhood challenge. By the end of the month, I want to be able to run a 5K. Or maybe it's, you know, depending where you're starting from, by the end of 90 days, I want to be able to run a 5K. So his challenge then is to, you know, kind of create the regimen that's gonna help him be able to get to that. And then some other guy in the tribe is gonna be his partner in making that happen. And maybe that's a guy who's either like, you know, gonna be his running partner as he trains, maybe it's a guy who's just kind of helping him set his uh training regimen and kind of holding him accountable to doing that. It can look different ways, um, but it's getting involved in helping a man be able to grow in any of those areas. Uh in my tribe, just recently I had we had a guy who um he created a courage challenge for himself. He's got a uh teenage son who's getting ready to graduate high school. And as a dad, this guy was kind of realizing like there's just some conversations that I feel like I probably ought to have with my son, some things I'd I'd love to pass on to him in terms of kind of manly wisdom that I've probably neglected a little bit because I've been insecure or uncertain about how to be able to offer that kind of stuff to my son. But I don't want him to graduate high school and To move out of the house without me, you know, having had some of those conversations. So his courage challenge was to be able to have those conversations, to actually pick a time to, you know, meet with his son, take him out to dinner, talk through some of those things. And then, you know, uh, he has an accountability partner who's working with him to say, what's that conversation going to look like? What do you need to talk through? What's the goal of the conversation? What are you hoping your son is gonna take away from being able to do that? So it's just pushing him to the place of like, hey, this is something that wouldn't come naturally to me, but with a little bit of accountability, uh, I can grow in the area of courage. So every guy, every month has a manhood challenge as a way of just being able to get better at being a man. Mm-hmm.

Chris Grainger 23:35

Mm-hmm. Now those challenges, so it sounds like, so it's are you guys as a group doing the same challenge together, or does everybody have their own challenge and you're and you and you guys are independently supporting each other as they work through it?

Monthly Challenges With Real Accountability

Don Ross 23:49

Yeah, you can do it really any way that you want to. And uh probably most often it's each guy doing his own challenge and then somebody in the group partnering with him. Uh, but sometimes we'll we'll take a pause and say, okay, this month everybody's gonna do the same thing. You know, we've got some kind of skill challenge that everybody needs to work on. Or uh, you know, I mean, sometimes that's crazy and fun, and sometimes it's uh intense and difficult, and it just kind of depends on where the group is at. Uh, you know, sometimes it might be, hey, we're we're all gonna do this like uh, you know, mud race thing together. And so that's gonna be our manhood challenge, is training for that and and working towards that event. Um, and then that becomes something of kind of like an adventure and a shared memory as well. Um, but you know, there's there's all kinds of ways to be able to build it.

Chris Grainger 24:29

So how do you ensure that this group doesn't form into a bunch of yes men to sit around and affirm each other?

Don Ross 24:36

That's really good. Uh so at the end of the month with those manhood challenges, we actually have a process where we go through it and uh and we say, like, hey, did you complete your challenge or not? You know, we we we have a little book where we uh keep track of here's what your challenge was, here's how you'll know if you completed it. And then we've got to go through and actually examine like, did you meet your goals? So it's meant to be a challenge. And we say that, like you don't get to pick something that's uh not actually a challenge for you. And uh, and then at the end of the month, you know, we kind of evaluate together as a tribe, did you meet your challenge? Are you worthy of the, you know, the recognition of saying, yes, uh, I I completed my challenge. So uh it's not just a like uh, hey, good job, man, you know, participation trophy kind of thing. Um it's uh it's meant to be a real sense of accomplishment in terms of, yeah, this is we're we're growing, and here's here's the examples of how that's actually happening.

Chris Grainger 25:25

What about like the uh, you know, I'm just thinking about forming a group and trying to get it going. And we all we always talk about red flags, and I think we spend too much time sometimes thinking about the red flags, but what but like what are the green flags that we should look at in another man and what and how he's leading his family, loves his wife, shows up at work, stewardship. Like what should cause I mean, you don't want to have I'm assuming you do you want some sort of selection criteria on this. You can't just be open to anybody. You got I mean, or else, you know, there's no telling what's going to get in. So, like what what is that, what does that process look like? Or am I being too critical?

Selecting Men And Building Overlap

Don Ross 26:04

No, I it not at all. Uh there's kind of there's there's like two levels of that that I I kind of help a guy think through as he's thinking about starting a tribe. Um, one is just kind of the like base layer of, you know, who do you need to gather around you and how do you be able to do that? Because, you know, if we're honest, most guys are starting from a place of, I'm not sure I've got one guy that I can invite, let alone, you know, five or six other guys that I could try to pull into doing this tribe thing together. We're living in the most isolated era of masculinity that we ever have. Um, you know, trying to build that kind of a tribe is is really hard for most guys. So I that's where I tend to say um you want to try to grab guys who are like you in some kind of ways and that you're gonna have overlap with them in more than one place in life. So maybe it's, you know, guys that you are uh, you know, you go to a church with, um, but you've got something else in common. It's all guys that are kind of oriented around fitness, um, or it's all guys who are dads with kids who are about the same age or kids who go to the same school, or you know, it's all dads who uh, you know, work in finance. I mean, just, you know, whatever it is. Like you've all you've got some kinds of similarities with one another uh that would say, yeah, this is gonna help our lives overlap. Uh I've seen some tribes work really well where it's like we all work out at the same gym together. So there's, you know, there's ways where we're going to bump into each other and other parts of our lives than just uh, you know, what we do when we get together as a tribe. And that kind of helps set the stage for uh if we've got some natural overlap, we're going to be a little more committed to one another and actually be able to last as a tribe. So that's kind of just the like base layer. The second layer, um, if a if a guy is fortunate enough to be able to say, you know, I'm I'm at a church where there's a lot of guys involved. I've got good relationships. I'm, I might, you know, kind of have my pick of the litter here. What, what should I be thinking about? Uh, that's where I really say to a guy, you want to try to invite guys into your tribe who are men that you want to be like. So you're looking at their lives and you're going, that's the kind of life that I want to be living. They're uh, you know, they're they're growing in their faith. They uh they have a solid and maturing home life and family life, they're successful in their career, uh, you know, whatever it is that you're kind of like looking at them as a man and saying, I that's that's something that I want to be able to emulate. You know, they're uh maybe they're in shape or they're financially successful, or uh, you know, they've written a book. Like, I mean, you know, you can pick whatever you want to. Um, but those are the kinds of things that, you know, inevitably you're gonna become like the men that you surround yourself with. And so the guys that you choose to pick in to be in your tribe um are gonna help shape who you become as a man. And it's it's good to think about those things as you're choosing them.

Chris Grainger 28:53

And I guess maybe this so this question is so I have I have Cherokee in me on my on my mom's side. So I'm literally going to the Indian tribe thinking. And in an Indian tribe, you got a chief. So do you guys have is there is there a chief?

Don Ross 29:07

Yes, so the leader, we call the leader of the tribe a chief, yes.

Chief Leadership And Calling Out Sin

Chris Grainger 29:11

Okay, got it. So so he's he's setting the tone. Now let's say um, because I've worked with so many guys now, I get to see this on a pretty regular basis. Let's say you you know you got a tribe going, you're the chief, or maybe you got a uh several other guys in the tribe, and you're you're seeing this guy who's in and and he's just falling short. Maybe he's not let's just take this example because I see this one a lot. Yeah. Let's say you guys are out for breakfast and you're having breakfast at a restaurant together, and you notice that this guy is making uh he's eyeing the waitress a little bit too much, and he's maybe making some off uh offhanded comments about what she's wearing and what how she's looking, and this dude is married. Um how's that addressed? You know, what and and what does that look like when you have you know really uh a confrontation that needs to occur in a healthy way? But I'm just curious, how how do you guys you know go about you know managing that?

Don Ross 30:10

Yeah. So, you know, that's one of the places where I would really encourage the chief to be able to have a conversation with that guy, probably initially like offline, outside of the group, just him and that guy.

Chris Grainger 30:21

Right.

Chiseling For Freedom Through Prayer

Don Ross 30:21

Yeah. And and just kind of start there and say, Hey, I think here's here's something that I think I'm noticing. Like, help me out. You know, is it like, am I am I seeing this correctly? Is this really good what's going on? Uh, and and hopefully, you know, by the time uh you're at a place where you're addressing that, there's already some trust built within your tribe. And so being able to bring up a conversation like that uh, you know, isn't uh isn't out of place. Right. And then from there, it's a matter of uh, you know, trying to begin the conversation of saying, hey, this is something that we need to figure out how to address within the context of the tribe. Like we we need to fight for you. We need to help you be able to grow in this area. Let's talk about what that looks like. And so there's usually a couple ways that we go about that. One is, you know, like I talked about with the manhood challenge. We would probably encourage that guy uh in some way to uh choose some kind of a uh allegiance challenge or an honor challenge. Um honor is about doing right by the men around you. And so, you know, we would say, hey, you're probably not living up to the values that our tribe really holds. Like you're uh you're treating women or you're uh mistreating your marriage, you know, in some ways that we would say are not in keeping with who we are as a tribe. Let's help you figure out how to reshape those uh your actions so that they're a little more in line with the values of who we are as a tribe. Uh or it might be an allegiance challenge, which says, like, hey, you're uh, you know, the way that you're using your mind and your thoughts, um, the way that you're using your language doesn't reflect your allegiance to Jesus. And so what can we do to help you uh develop that allegiance to him so that you're thinking of other women as his daughters, you know, being able to see them and treat them with the dignity and respect that they deserve, and being the kind of man who does that out of allegiance to Jesus. So those would be some of the like manhood challenges that we might design. Um, but then the the bigger kind of framework that we would go into is uh, you know, I talked about the three pillars manhood, camaraderie, and freedom. That third one is freedom. And uh, and this is really kind of like probably what we spend the most time on as a tribe. We have a process that we call chiseling. And this is really our way of being able to help a man find freedom in Christ. So this process of chiseling is uh is really just about saying, let's let's dive into where God is at work in your life and see how we as your brothers can fight for you to help you be more of the man that he intends you to be. And so we would use this chiseling process uh to really kind of uh have him share more of what's going on there, like what do his thoughts actually look like? Uh how has this uh you know problem been a problem for him in the past? What's it looked like? How has he struggled with it? You know, we try to get the whole picture of what's going on there. We do a lot of what we call exploring, asking a lot of questions, uh, really digging in there. And then we end the chiseling process uh with something kind of unique. So, you know, most guys and most men's groups in particular might do a lot of those kinds of things, but where they tend to end up is in the things that men are really naturally gifted at, is that we try to fix things. We try to offer really good advice. You know, we just try to solve another man's problems by our own collective wisdom. And uh inevitably that's going to come up short. You know, if if a man could solve his own problems with quick fixes, he would have already done so. And so we try to say, no, we're we're we're just gonna short circuit that process right from the start and say, we're not gonna end with advice. Instead, we're gonna end with listening. So we spend our chiseling time listening to God in prayer. We just kind of take all that we've learned about the man, all that's going on in his story, all that he's facing in terms of his challenges, where we've identified that he's not free, where he's looking for validation as a man in places that are the wrong places to look for that, where he's believing lies about himself or about God. I mean, we take all of that and we take it to Jesus and just invite him to speak to us. Uh, and he speaks in a number of ways, whether that's through scripture, whether speaking directly to us in prayer. Uh sometimes, you know, guys in our group might get uh images or ideas, impressions that he's kind of speaking to them through the spirit of ways of being able to say, here's what I want you to offer to this man to help him be able to find the freedom that I have for him. And that process, uh, probably more than anything that we do as a tribe, has been really just revolutionary. It is transformative. To watch a guy be able to receive things from Jesus through his brothers and see that begin to really reshape who he is as a man uh is really incredible. So we would do all that, and we call that uh we call that fighting for one another. That's how we fight for each other as brothers and say, hey, we really want to value your freedom and we want to help you get there, but we're not gonna do it just by like holding your feet to the fire. We're gonna do it by holding you up to Jesus and saying, Who is this man, Jesus, and who have you made him to be, and how can we help him become the man that you've created him to be?

Break Simple Guide For Praying

Chris Grainger 35:13

100%. Guys, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back with continue with Don. If there is one habit that can change a home, it's this when a husband prays with his wife, not because it's a magic formula, but because it recenters your marriage under God's authority and care. And let's be honest, a lot of guys want to do it, but most don't know how to start without it feeling awkward. Maybe you tried it before and it felt forced, or maybe you've never tried it because you don't even know what to say. Or maybe you're thinking, Man, I'm not a pastor, I'm just a guy. And that's why we created this guide. It's our how to pray with your wife. Simple guide. It's biblical, it's practical, and it's designed to help you start praying with your wife in a way that actually feels natural. So it's a five-section guide and it gives you a simple framework to get started. Okay, it makes sure everything is grounded in scripture, and it also has a powerful PDF that you can pull up whenever you need, especially when things get off, because they're gonna get off. That's normal. So this is all about reclaiming your marriage and reclaiming the spiritual leadership reigns of your home. Because praying with your wife is one of the strongest ways to fight for unity, to build trust, and to right the ship when life starts to pull you off a course. So if you're ready, get access today at thelionwithin.us slash guides. That's thelionwithin.us slash guides. And start unleashing the line within at home by leading your marriage through prayer. So, Don, I'm I'm for you personally, you said you've had these tribes for a while. I think you said seven years. You've been working with your tribe. Like, give us some personal stories, man. Let's get real. Like, like what's been the biggest impact for you? Where have you seen some of the biggest breakthroughs? Can we I mean you don't have to, you know, change the name just to protect the innocent type of thing, but but yeah, love to love to really get some some practical what does it look like?

Don’s Authority Pattern And Allegiance

Don Ross 37:18

What how has it been impactful for you? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I I I'll share one of my own stories um quick, because you know, uh I I'm the chief from my tribe, but one of the things that I I love to be able to say is that you know, the chief is just as much a brother of the tribe uh as anybody is. And so it needs to be as uh uh transformative and powerful for the chief as it is for any guy. Uh I have to be just as vulnerable and open about my story as I'm expecting the other guys to be with theirs. Uh so, and it has been for me. It's uh it has been incredibly powerful and life-changing. So uh one example of that for me. When I um when I first kind of started in my tribe, one of the things that I was noticing that I was consistently having challenges with over the course of my life as a man was in my career, that I would consistently get into places where uh even within ministry, I was, you know, what you might call, you know, in the corporate world, we call it a high performer, you know, a guy who like gets things done, values results, uh, you know, is able to accomplish things, does things well. Uh that's always kind of been me. But at the same time that that was going on, uh, I was consistently over the course of many jobs and many places running into problems with my supervisor. I, you know, whether it would be uh we would just get into disagreeable relationships, or I would rub them the wrong way, or I would find myself on the wrong end of a performance review, or, you know, you name it. I mean, that like I never really got fired any place, uh, you know, there's nothing quite that bad. Um, but I consistently was having uh disagreeable and frustrating relationships with my supervisors. And so this was something that uh actually when I was uh first starting with this tribe, I had a couple other guys in the tribe who worked with me. And uh this was something that they began to notice about me, that for as well as I was doing at my job, uh I was not well liked and received by my supervisor and by other leaders at the church. So this became something that they kind of started bringing to my attention of like, hey, this is probably something that you need to really examine of what's going on with you here. Is this a pattern in your life? And the more that I looked at it, the more it was obvious that it was. So we began to really kind of develop a series of allegiance challenges to help me examine, you know, kind of my patterns there. Allegiance can and does have to do with your relationship to God as kind of your ultimate allegiance, but it also has to do with earthly authority. You know, who are you willing to follow? Uh, every man has to learn how to follow well. And that's really what allegiance is about, uh, is being able to follow authority figures, sometimes even when you disagree with them. And what I began to observe about myself is that I was not a good follower. I was not doing well uh when it came to allegiance, especially when I disagreed with my authority figures. And so uh over the course of quite a bit of chiseling, I mean, we probably went through three or four rounds of some intense chiseling with me over this particular issue. There was some deep-seated things there in terms of lies that I was believing. Uh, some of those were based in my relationships uh from my childhood, just things that I had kind of learned growing up of uh I'm gonna have to figure out life for myself. I was kind of all on, all on my own to be able to manage things. And so uh, you know, because of that, I had some relationship to authority issues that were kind of ingrained in me from an early age. And so, you know, I had to be able to take those things to Jesus and invite him to say, Hey, if you can trust me, I'm going to put you in, you know, under the authority of other people. And I want you to be able to trust them as well. Uh, that was a really freeing idea for me of being able to say, hey, I can offer my allegiance to an imperfect leader because I follow a perfect God, and that's what he's asking me to do. Uh, and so being able to kind of find that freedom has changed my relationship to my supervisors. Uh, and now in the corporate world, um, that's actually something I continue to work on. It's just, hey, what does it look like to be a good follower for my boss? Um, that I can really demonstrate that allegiance well. So, you know, like sometimes it it it's uh it's sometimes it's a uh the sort of like stereotypical things that we talk about in church men's lives, you know, like porn or drinking or your marriage is out of shape, or you know, like sometimes it's those kind of like common topics that come up. And those, we've dealt with all of those within the context of our tribe. Um, but sometimes it's not that. Sometimes it's you know exactly what I'm saying, where it's like, hey, this is a like a less obvious pattern over the course of my life, but something that has definitely impacted me in an area where I'm not free and I'm not really being the man that God is asking me to be. Uh, and by those men helping me be able to identify that and to uh pursue Jesus and finding some freedom there, it's allowed me to be a different kind of man, to show up in the world in a way that's more um honoring to my authority figures and more allegiant to Christ because I'm following him in the ways that he's asked me to be. So that's the kind of stuff that we do.

Chris Grainger 42:10

Man, I absolutely love that. Good stuff, Don. I mean, hat hats off to you for taking a step and for putting this in force. I mean, how do like you you've built, you've got this book now that kind of helps guide guide guys. So if guys are interested in starting a tribe, what would that look like for them? How would they go about that?

Book Quiz And Coaching Options

Don Ross 42:27

Yeah. So if you uh if if if you're kind of listening to this episode and you're thinking, okay, this this sounds awesome, right? How do I get started? I mean, the easiest way to do that is just to go to our website, manhoodtribes.com. Um, you can schedule a call with me to find out more information about what it looks like to start a tribe. We've got a program called Build Your Own Tribe where I coach you on how to be able to do that over the course of about 12 weeks. Uh, it's a fantastic program. You'll work with some other guys who are doing the same thing alongside you. They're building their own tribes as well. Uh, and it's a great way to just learn what that process looks like and how to be able to do it in your context. If you're kind of, you know, listening and you're going, like, I'm I'm intrigued. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to take that step yet. Uh yeah, I would recommend my book. I've got a book called How to Be a Man, and it talks about, you know, kind of all of these uh different things that we've talked about today, the five marks of manhood, uh, the pillars of tribe, and you know, kind of what those things look like. It just gives you a better idea. And it's got a quiz that goes along with it uh that uh that I call How Manly Are You. And you can actually go uh take this quiz online right now at how manlyareu.com. So uh it's really easy to remember. And uh it'll give you an idea of how you measure up as a man along those five marks of manhood. So it'll just kind of help you see like where am I doing well and where are some places that I might need to continue to grow as a man. It'll give you some resources to kind of point you to after that in terms of how to take some next steps. And it'll also just help you kind of get more information about who we are at Manhood Tribes and uh how you can continue being involved. Man, love it.

Chris Grainger 43:53

Hey, before we wrap up though, Don, let's uh we always like to do a lightning round at the lions. So if you want, if you're willing to play, we'll we'll jump in here at the end, okay? Let's do it. All right, man. What about hobbies? What do you enjoy doing for fun?

Lightning Round Board Games And Superpowers

Don Ross 44:06

Hobbies for me would be uh exercise is definitely one of them. Uh I've I've been a fitness guy most of my life. That's looked like different things from CrossFit to just, you know, finding a gym to uh swimming, uh all kinds of things for me. Um but I also am a big nerd. So I love board games. Um, I love uh fantasy fiction, uh anything that's related to Lord of the Rings, um, you know, those are those are big hobbies for me. So uh you'll probably find me at a Renaissance fair, you know, once a year or so. Uh I love that kind of stuff. Love it, man. Oh, so what's your favorite board game? Oh gosh, favorite board game? Uh that's that's a really, really tough question. Um, I probably uh uh there's probably two different answers there. One would be uh a board game that I really love playing with my family, which would be uh Ticket to Ride. That's kind of a classic. For us, that it's just you know it's a good uh kind of easy to learn board game, doesn't take too long. Um, but then I've got a group of guys that we play like uh long strategy board games that you know sometimes take four to six hours to be able to play these games. Uh and I absolutely love those. I would say um of those, uh there's one called Andromeda's Edge. It's kind of like a uh a spaceship uh space battles board game that I I really, really love. So yeah, there you go.

Chris Grainger 45:22

Okay. There you go. There you go. How about superpowers? I mean, do you like to fix the stuff and get into that? If you could have a superpower, which one would you have and uh how would you use it?

Don Ross 45:31

Uh this is one I've actually thought a lot about. Uh mine would be uh telekinesis, so like the ability to you know move and do things with my mind. Um, I just think there's uh all kinds of practical applications from that that uh would be wonderful, including uh, you know, it's uh one of the reasons I like it, it's a little bit of a catch-all. Like I could make myself fly by using telekinesis. So it's kind of like a you know multi, multi-part gift in one.

Chris Grainger 45:57

Love it, love it, man. Now you mentioned working out, you work out so you can so you can eat good. So what's your go-to food? Oh, uh Mexican food, without a doubt. That's I I'll take chips and salsa any day of the week. Hey man, there's never there's never a bad day, right? That's it. Yep. Love it, love it. What's your favorite thing about God when you think about him? Like what's your favorite your favorite thing about him?

Don Ross 46:19

Uh I I love talking with him. Like I just really love spending time with him. He's such a uh delightful and enjoyable person. And uh, I think that's probably, you know, probably an unusual thing for most guys to say about God. But uh, I just find spending time with him to be one of the greatest joys of my life. So uh yeah, I think that's that's probably how I would say it. Love it, man. How about how about what's your least favorite thing about Satan? Oh gosh. Least favorite thing is uh how crafty he is. He is so good at getting into the cracks in my life uh without me being able to see that that's what he's doing and it's him, you know, that he's up to it. Uh he's just he sometimes it feels like he knows me better than I know myself. Uh and that feels like an unfair advantage. But it's just he understands human nature really, really well. And so he's good at being able to tempt me in ways that make it feel like uh it's my fault or there's something wrong with me uh when really it's him at work, and it takes a little time for me to recognize that.

Chris Grainger 47:27

100%. Last question for you, brothers. What do you hope the guys remember the most from our conversation today?

Don Ross 47:33

You know, I hope that guys will remember that uh it is possible to get better at being a man being a man, no matter kind of where you're starting from. But the really the only way to be able to do that is in the context of a group of men. You have got to have other brothers around you in order to be able to become the man that God has made you to be. And uh and uh it's not gonna happen easily. Like our culture doesn't just naturally create those kinds of spaces for men anymore, which is why I do the work that I do, is to help guys be able to kind of build that tribe, uh, that kind of environment where you can really grow as a man and become the man that God made you to be.

Chris Grainger 48:10

Amen, bro. Amen. And one more time, where do you want to send them at to connect with you and all the wonderful things you're doing?

Don Ross 48:15

Yeah, easiest place is to start with that quiz that I mentioned. Just go to how manlyare you.com. Uh, you can take the quiz there through the site, and uh and that'll get you into our orbit at Manhood Traps.

Hard Truth Question And Next Steps

Closing Book And Keep Unleashing

Chris Grainger 48:26

All right, guys, you heard it right here. So, Don, thank you so much, brother, for sharing today. And highly encourage you guys to take that, go take that quiz if you dare. And uh, maybe some some guys are like, I don't know if I want to take that. But anyway, lean lean into it, Don. Thank you so much for sharing today, brother. Appreciate it, Chris. Great to be here with you. All right, fellas. I told you that was gonna be a good one. So thankful for Don for coming on. Question of week this week is who speaks hard truth in your life with love and consistency? You gotta have that. Again, if you feel if you just surround yourself with yes, man, you're you're setting yourself up for failure. Gotta have those men who are willing to speak the hard truth. And then here's the here's the kind of the linchpin to this. You gotta be that yourself to other people, bro. Like you got you gotta you gotta be able to be willing to be uncomfortable in other men's lives to really, if you truly love them and if you want to help serve them in a meaningful way. Okay. So, guys, check out all our resources, the lionwithin.us, daily SKO, Lion's Den. Again, leadership mastermind. That's the primary areas. Open up the Bible app. If you like the Bible app, open that thing up, check out the Lion Within Us. All the plan, we got what, probably 50, 60 plans on the Bible app right now, guys. Constantly putting out new content on a regular basis. So check it out all on the Bible app. Just search for the Lion Within Us, okay? Share this stuff out with others, connect with us on our website, the lionwithin.us. Give us a rating review, guys. That would be huge. Maybe you want to be a donor to the show, the lionwithin.us slash donate. You can help us out right there. Other than that, have a great day. We'll see you Friday for our member spotlight. Get after it, stay strong, and just keep unleashing the lion within. If you're like me, you don't need another book just sitting around collecting dust. What I enjoy is something to help guide me when my feet hit the ground in the mornings. And that is why we put together Unleashing the Lion Within. It has honest stories, scripture you can apply, and simple steps to help you lead at home, at work, and everywhere in between. So if you've been feeling stuck or scattered lately, you may find this resource encouraging. Read a few pages. Take one step and watch what God does with your obedience. Hey, and if reading's tough for you right now, no problem. The book is also available in audible version. So you can listen on the go. So if this sounds interesting, check out the lionwithin.us slash book or search for unleashing the lion within directly on Amazon. So there's no pressure here, just a resource that many guys are finding helpful. So grab the format that fits and take your next step.