Welcome And Scripture Focus

Chris Grainger 1:09

Well, welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, this is your fun Friday, and the best part of the week, the member spotlight. So I'm getting ready to have a lot of fun with this member for sure. But before we get there, the scripture of the week is Romans 1 16. Okay. Talked about that verse at length. For I'm not ashamed of the gospel, for is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first, and also the Greek or the Gentile, depending on your translation. Guys, I unpacked that verse at length in our spiritual kickoff episode this week. So go back. It should be two back in your podcast feed. Check that out. And then we take the time to simplify and apply God's word in the SKO. But the cool part is that the Lion, we do it Monday through Friday. We call it the daily SKO. So this is a freeway guide. We serve you so we can give you an encouragement. Just we take a little bit of scripture every morning, and how do we help can we apply it to our life? And guys seem to really enjoy it. So you have access to that, you have access to our prayer request space. We have a weekly prayer call, and it's just some really cool things that we're doing in the lion. And by the way, guys, this area of the lion is growing by leaps and bounds, and God's got his hand on it. So it's an easy way to get plugged in. It's a free way to get plugged in and just kind of see what we're all about. And now we'd love to serve you there, and hopefully we can connect with you. So thelionwithin.us is how you get started with that, fellas. All right. So let's get into the fun part of this episode. That's that's my buddy Joseph. So, Joseph, what's going on, brother?

Joseph Hart 2:37

I'll just enjoying this beautiful day. We're starting to see some sunlight, some warmer weather in Ohio. It's not frozen over anymore, and uh looking forward to some springtime. Man, you got that right.

Member Spotlight With Joseph

Chris Grainger 2:49

I am so ready for that. I mean, when this comes out, we will we will be in spring. But man, at this time right now, we're recording at the very beginning of March. And man, I am I'm over this winter, bro. I'm I'm over it. But now you're getting into the dirty muddy season for your horses. That'll be a little bit different. Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. I can deal with a muddy horse. It's just a frozen one that makes it challenging. But anyway, so I love how you said that we can deal with it. You mean your kids can deal with it and wash them horses down. That's right. That's right. We're gonna all suffer together here on the farm. You know what I'm saying? So that's right. The good Lord gave you helpers, right? That's right. I got I've been able to use my the automatic uh gate opener my wife made about three years ago. He's getting to be real good at that for me. So train them in the way they should go, as the Bible says. Open that gate. That's right. Open that gate, close the gate. There you go. That's a that's an expensive gate opener, but uh it is a pretty cute one, too. But anyway.

Joseph Hart 3:49

At least they don't rust.

Chris Grainger 3:51

That's right. That's right. Well, man, like I I love these episodes because guys listening, even guys within the lion, they get to hear the testimony of of so many of those that we're walking with. And I and we've been walking together for several years now. But before we kind of get to the lion part, man, just share with our listeners a little bit about your testimony, Joe.

Growing Up In A Cult

Drifting From God In Young Adulthood

Joseph Hart 4:12

Yeah, I'd love to. Man, my story starts a long time ago. So we really I grew up in a different situation where I didn't realize it at the time, but but throughout the years, I realized that I grew up in a cult. And growing up in a cult, you don't really know. You're just in it. Like that's just normal life for you. So uh, you know, just some close-knit families. We just kind of did life together very, very closely. And it was a really good thing for a while uh until the leader of that group unfortunately passed away and his son took over, and then it just kind of became a self-guided mission in his life. You know, he believed he was hearing things that the Lord was telling him to leave his wife uh for a younger woman. You know, I don't think that's the Lord, but uh that's what he was hearing. He was teaching other people that, you know, if you don't have faith in God, which means quit taking medicines, you know, that the good Lord's blessed us with. And maybe he was, but maybe he wasn't. But some of these people died. Uh and there's a lot of things that kind of just came down, and my my mom just she's like, something ain't right with this. And so uh she took us all five kids in the middle of the night. My uncle came from California, took us out, and and we ended up living in California for a little bit uh until my dad left and things kind of reset there. So it was an interesting foundation that started in faith, it was that I believe was was of God uh after doing a lot of conversations with a lot of people over the years. And through that whole process, we just grew up in a broken family, and we ended up coming back to Ohio and and my my mom and my dad never quite really healed from it. Um, so big, big gaps there, a lot of a lot of just brokenness, a lot of curses and generational boundaries that just held on to our family. A lot of things like depression, uh, anxiety, just just different like emotional disconnect. Like so sometimes like if this resonates with anybody, but really like not feeling emotions because it was the a way to cope, it's a way not to feel hurt or pain, to not think about things. And and so that was kind of a coping mechanism for for most of us kids, five of us kids, as as we kind of learn to grow up a little bit in life, just a little bit differently. Um never thought anything of it. You know, we we grew up a bit on the poor side. You know, I I remember many uh struggles going through school and and just wondering why things were different than other kids. But um, through it all, I I just I know God was there. Uh I know that there was just things that didn't make sense. I know that there was um a guidance. There's too many times throughout life that it's like, man, this doesn't this doesn't add up. You know, there there has to be a God out there just because some man decided to to interpret his own will and really distort what what God is doing in our lives doesn't mean that I I should keep a separate relationship with him. So really kind of off and on, just questioning life, questioning God, like what is my purpose in life? And uh life was strange, but I I moved out quite a bit earlier than than most people and just hanging out on friends' couches, kind of going and doing life on my own, kind of created a a bit of a hardness, but a sense of pride that I can do anything on my own and nothing's gonna hold me back. And so it created motivation in a way, but it created selfishness because it was like, look at me, look what I look what I was able to overcome and accomplish, not contribute any of it to God. But he's sitting there watching, you know, the the whole time he's just waiting. You know, as a a good father loves, you know, if you if any of you have kids and and they're a bit wayward, you know, sometimes you just look at your kids and they're like, nothing I say right now can influence them because they just they're gonna be so self-indulged, but just watch and protect and pray. And so I felt like the the good Lord was was doing that with me and just watching over me. So uh I really really didn't get back into church as much until probably around 1718. Uh and I felt like God was called me back to to church life and really started growing closer uh to a youth minister. So I went to Johnson Bible College for a uh a retreat down in Tennessee. Beautiful, just loved it. Um and really just felt like God was calling me back to do something more and be connected. And I just felt like that was the first time I felt like, okay, the Holy Spirit, like that's actually a real thing. Like if I submit and I ask the Holy Spirit to to guide my life and I pray about everything as the Bible instructs and says, you know, that's a good thing, that might be it. So gathering a little bit through through some of that, um I'd say it challenged me. Yeah, I started seeing things a little bit differently. Um, but life took a little bit of a turn for me. Again, you know, Satan doesn't like to sit still and he doesn't like to people to to really develop and and go into the path that God created. And so I I actually had ended up signing up for going to Johnson Bible College, but ended up not going instead. Um really I knew what God was calling me to, but it was uh kind of a seeking my own will, if you will. And so I I canceled it and decided to just go to business school instead in Akron uh university and things, yeah, I started getting into drinking, partying, doing some of those things, and you know, the the things that the world say, this is fun, like go out and party, this is what you should do. You know, this is fun. You know, you're hanging out with people, you just feel energized, and and it really wasn't about the drinking, but that was just a way to let loose, if you will. It's kind of what the world says, and it was like, man, um wasn't great. Wasn't great, unfulfilling. You know, sometimes you wake up after a binge and you're like, man, what was I doing? Was this worth it? But then going back out again next week, you know, just because you're hanging out with friends, that's what your friends want to do. Like at some point we've all been tempted with that. But uh I met my wife in high school, and so we were college or high school sweethearts at the the end. She was wanted to be a nurse, and then I was I was a welder, so I wasn't really uh a good kid. Had some great bad influences, if you will. Uh so really enjoyed it a hands-on technique, so it was it's very man, I can tell you, like my wife just she she gives a whole new perspective. We don't have almost anything in common in in common whatsoever. So she's she's just cool as a cucumber. She's very organized, she follows the rules, and and she like if I if I could think of somebody who's like almost like perfect in life, like that would be her, like that she's the the model for that. And and why she she fell in love with a a wild child like myself, I still don't to this day. I don't think she has a good judge of character. That's her only flaw, if you will. Um, so that that that's what keeps her from being perfect, if you will. But she she really encouraged me, and we we both were pretty much, I wouldn't say really super connected with God on an intimate level. Yeah. Of God. Um I was still partying and doing something on the backside, but never really kind of started getting away from it and and really just wanting to pursue her a little bit more. And so after high school, we we I was like, man, yeah, I gotta lock this up before it gets away from me. Like everything else in life changes, and everything else kind of leaves in life, and and you kind of leave feel like abandoned in most cases. Just that's how I grew up. And so I was like, man, we gotta lock this up. So proposed her and we got engaged. Uh I was right out of high school. So probably would have been graduated in May. And so by the end of end of that, we were engaged, um, probably the end of 2013. So it was uh very, very interesting and very quick. Um and we never we didn't like each other's churches, so we really just didn't understand, you know, we were just shopping for a church. Like, ah, I didn't really like that one, you know, oh your music's not great on this one. Like I it just felt felt so superficial. But at the time, like we were just picking and choosing, like, you're gonna go buy a car. Like, I don't like this color. I, you know, I don't like the way the this engine sounds, kind of thing. And and so it was right, yeah, it just different. And so I we ended up settling on a church that was a larger church that you could go sit up in the grandstands and learn, just sit in a corner and not really you just do your Sunday thing, you know, show up to church. Yep, yep, that was a good message, good worship music, and kind of head out the door as as soon as possible because we got we gotta go beat the Baptist to the to the local Mexican joint, you know what I'm saying? And uh no offense to anybody, but hey, that that's what we did. I'm not even joking. So we're first in line, so we can get some food for lunch. And that's what we focused on. We didn't have great influences in our life because we didn't put good influences in our life, so we really just aligned those people that we thought are the same with, never really challenged ourselves. And oh man, we got so we got married in 2015, so we're engaged for about two years. And it was I don't really ever remember thinking about like what does God want me to do? It's more like how could I how could I put God where I wanted to in life? You know, if if something goes bad, I'll I'll I'll pray about that in in quietness alone. Of course, I would never pray out loud. That would that's just uh that's not for me. Just not for me. I remember getting married and looking back now, my wife and I talk about it, but we we actually uh she had a a family friend within the family that was uh a a pastor and a woman pastor who had been divorced, and you know, she never really had a successful marriage, and it like I didn't think anything of it, but my wife's like, well, it's family friend, we should just have that person marry us, and I was like, Yeah, sure, whatever. I what do I care? It's fine. Um something that we kind of both a little bit laughed today. Like, we got married by a pastor who it was a woman, and she was divorced within like the first year of marriage. Was that like the race thing to do? So, like, we didn't really go through like counseling, if you will. Like we we we like met up a couple times and like talked through some things, but just like didn't didn't do the right things and we just didn't know better. We're just two dumb kids. And we we laugh about it today. It's like man, that was just probably a poor choice and and not knowing what we we didn't know.

Chris Grainger 15:28

Um so so we laugh about it now, but it was just like okay.

Marriage Without A Foundation

Fatherhood And Emotional Numbness

Addiction And A Marriage Breaking Point

Real Community Through Small Group

Wholeness Counseling And Deliverance

Joseph Hart 15:33

So kind of fast forwarding there a little bit. Um, three months after we got married, she she got pregnant, and uh, you know, that was uh like oh crap. Like turns out, guys, birth control isn't 100% effective. So who would have known? You know, and so we're like, well, what do we do? My wife is a nurse, she's making 18 bucks an hour, I was making like 11 bucks an hour, and it was like uh literally like a month before that, I was like, hey, you know, you don't need this extra disability insurance or whatever that covered like maternity leave or something. I was like, you know, we can save like 20 bucks, maybe 40 bucks a month, so 20 bucks a paycheck, and just cut that out of out of your level and we can pocket that money. And so, right, you know, me and me and my wisdom here, you know, like relying on my own understanding, if you will. It's like, you know, we're gonna save 20 bucks, 40 bucks a month, you know, we don't need that. So cut that out of your options and cut this out, and we're just gonna grind it, baby. We both had just gotten cars that we were just financed, and so we, you know, we were we're getting ready to do the the high life, if you will. And it was like, the good Lord is like, hey, I'm gonna trade something up. And at the time it was just like, man. So we found out she got pregnant, and I was like, man. I just remember going, like, Lord, like, what is this? Like, we can't afford this. Uh, we're not gonna be able to do the maternity leave. I and just went and talked to my boss. I'm like, hey, can I get a raise? And if you give me a dollar raise today, and if I save that raise, it may cover us throughout her whole maternity leave of three months. And I remember, and I sat down with him and he's like, we just don't do raises until the beginning of the year. I'm sorry, nothing we can do. And I was like, okay, all right, so we're not gonna make it. Um we had moved into her parents' basement apartment and then looked at like selling my truck, and just like it was like a whole degradation of who I was. Um country boy. So I, you know, I do enjoy a good truck, it just feels good. But uh I remember my my wife got my uh we bought my wife's car, her high school car from her parents, and it was a red Chevy Aveo. And if you don't know what that is, it's it's like worse than a Prius, man. No offense to anybody driving a Prius out there. I mean, you're you're cool, you're cool, all good. But it was like a humiliating thing for me to go to this, like we called it the beep beep car. Just like, I don't think it even had a horn. Just had to roll down the manual window and yell out beep beep, you know, kind of thing. And I just remember going, like, well, we had to keep her car, so we had a safe car for the kid. And I was just like, man, this this is embarrassing, you know, but it was it was so humbling. And so, like, all along, I I wouldn't say I was close with God by any means. Um, but through that, my wife and I, we really just we through the pregnancy, we really struggled a lot because we didn't have a good foundation going into our marriage, didn't know the right questions, didn't know how to communicate. You know, I came from a family where, you know, the parents, if they ever communicated, they were just yelling at each other. And uh, or my dad was yelling at my mom, my mom would just take it. And so um it was kind of that's that's what I learned. So if you wanted to get something through her head, you just had to yell at her. And that would just get her to listen. You know, that's that's what I understood. That's a learned response. And and she, as I watched my mom just be quiet and shut down, I just expected her to do that. And sometimes she'd fight back at me and she's bullheaded, I'm bullheaded. And so it's like, what are you doing? You should just be quiet. And so like we we just like didn't know what we were doing. Just kids, ridiculousness. Oh man, just looking back now, I just I think it's kind of funny like how how naive we were, and and we thought we were adults, we thought we were mature, if you will. So um God humbled us yet again, you know, leaning on my own understanding again. And so sold the truck, drive the beep beep car. We had a a boy and I remember in the hospital just going, like holding him and not feeling anything. And it was like everybody told you, oh, you just it just changes everything. It's a miracle. And once you hold that boy, everything in your life will change and you'll just feel different. And I remember holding him and going, I don't feel anything. Really? It's just like, yeah, I'm just very emotionally numb. And very emotionally numb for my wife, too, and just poor communication. She she felt like she couldn't trust me, opened up to me. And I never saw it. And that's one of the most heartbreaking things in my life that that I have regrets about. But you know, you learn from the the junk in your life. So it's kind of like just just in a bad place. I mean, my wife had really bad postpartum, and I didn't know what to do. Uh, I didn't have any mentors in life, didn't really have anybody I could connect with, didn't talk to my dad. Um, him and I just had a bad, bad relationship, and still to this day, we don't really talk, and uh it's unfortunate. But I really never really trusted anybody and never opened up to anybody. So it was just doing life on my own because that's what we're supposed to do as a man. Just plate it up and and go and take it on, blow up every once in a while if you get too much steam, but just go be the gladiator in life and just take it. You know, that's what we're supposed to do. So I left my wife just lonely, feeling isolated, and we were just uh my son was colicky and so just couldn't keep anything. So couldn't keep anything down, and so we we ended up going to formula, and it was like the most expensive rice formula, something that that he could keep down. It had to be the pre-mix, couldn't be concentrate or powder, none of that stuff. He would just pick it up and wouldn't have any food. And so, of course, no money, living on 11 bucks a month or $11 an hour income, you know, just trying to survive and get through some of this stuff and poor decisions left and right. Her family was just amazing and supported us uh by formula for us occasionally and just just help us out. Um, we ended up actually going on on uh food stamps for a little bit there, and that was super humiliating for me because it's like we came from food stamps with living with my mom for a long time, and it was like I'm never gonna go back to this. And it was like just a humbling thing again to have to ask for help again. And so super embarrassing, but it was like it's what we needed is to survive. Oh man, like the the Lord has just been so good. And so uh after that, I just tell you going to school full-time, working a job full-time, working sidework as much as I could, just was never home and available and left my poor wife alone most of the time with this baby. So it just really drifted us apart so far. Didn't really know each other. Um, had some issues with my siblings, and one of them kind of ended up coming to live with us for a little while, and and we had some more issues with that. So it was just like a place where my wife couldn't trust me, that I wouldn't pick her over my own, you know, family, my siblings. Um so I just did super destructive in my life uh in my pursuit to save everybody else. I wanted to help and serve everybody else. Uh that's one of my gifts of serving, but it was it was toxic. Satan use that gift for evil. And so you distract me constantly on wanting to help other people, even to the detriment of other people that I really mostly cared about and should have been honoring and respecting with my wife. Honestly, if we wouldn't have had her son, I think we would have been divorced. I mean, I told her many a times. I was like, I I could be better off without you. And those cold, hard words that you ever want to say or hear, but I said them very low, very low. And so I had a very uh regretting rate. So uh my wife, she stuck it out. She really put up with me and really stuck it out and just prayed. You know, she'd pray quietly and just kept doing my thing. Um kind of moved on, went into sales, did better in there, got a little bit more money over the years, and then decided to build our own house. And um working full-time, another job, building a house, going to college full-time. I was probably sleeping a couple hours a day, if that. Some days I didn't. And so uh became uh became an alcoholic, actually. So I I quit eating as much and I would just drink, drink to keep going because it wasn't like super bloating and heavy on you. And so that was just something I slipped into pretty quickly and became addicted just to drink every day and uh drink before college classes just kind of like keep you up and keep you going, kind of thing. And it was just try to medicate, if you will, just anything to do to keep going, keep moving forward. Very desperate. And remember just hitting a a place in life in 2019. You know, we finished the house, I finished college, and just looking back and not caring, caring for anything. And I remember my wife looking at me one day and she's like, you know, all of the sacrifices I've had to do, and you're not even gonna take a minute to celebrate building a house or doing anything, doing all these things that we've accomplished. And it just like hit me like I don't really care. And like, why should I care? Why should I like celebrate with people or why, like, why? And we had a dark spot and I think we were right about the end of it. Um through it all, you know, like because you're not in a healthy marriage, right? So ain't no woman wanna be intimate with a man they she can't trust, she can't love in a sense, who doesn't love her and fulfill her first, as as you kind of learn in the journey of marriage is like really serving your spouse and and creating a safe place of intimacy where they can open up and be intimate with you. And so through that, develop some addictions there too. Um, pornography addiction, lust addiction, all these things that that kind of pile up. So really just stacking on as much as any person probably could, I guess. Uh the only thing I wasn't doing was drugs. Right. And uh that was one place that I never went to and very grateful for the Lord for for keeping me from that. But uh we were at our wits end, and I remember going to a somebody invited us from our church. We we gotten into a small group that they really just poured life into us from church, and we got connected and we felt like we were actually part of the church, and we weren't just trying to rush out right away, say that church ended. And that small group really just like there are other couples with babies that that just understood struggles and related and just loved on you. There's other people struggling with different things that you could contribute to and help, I'll say it. Just loving that somebody actually like cared for us would check in on us. Um probably the best way to put it. So we just loved our our church and we started getting connected that way. And my or one of them had invited us to like a men's group, and so I went. It was kind of like they were talking about like being honest and being truthful with your wife. Like if you can't even like leave your phone out upside down, it has to be on your pocket or whatever it has to do. Like, if you can't even do that, like there's something wrong, you're hiding something from your wife. If you have bank accounts that she doesn't know about or she doesn't have access to, it's like you guys can't ever be intimate. You can't ever trust each other enough if if you're hiding something. If you can't just truly like be exposed to your spouse, there's something wrong. And as the man of the house, you have to lead this through because you are responsible for your family. I didn't really quite understand it at the time, but it changed something in me. I started thinking a little bit differently, like that I am responsible for my wife and our relationship, not her. I'm sitting here waiting for her to step up, her to initiate, her to do all this stuff, and I'm telling her how bad she is and how horrible she is at doing it. Um, but not creating a safe place for her to actually want to do it. And I'm supposed to be the man in charge of leading that. That's what a man is. Um, didn't didn't quite register completely, but now looking back, I understand it. And I wish I could say, like, I initiated everything. I started changing things in our life, but I didn't, unfortunately. My wife did. So she went and she ended up seeing somebody at our church what we call wholeness. It's like a it's like a super counseling session. We're really like open and we ask the Holy Spirit to reveal things in your life, like that's holding you back. We go through generational curses, like things that have happened to you, and just open up all this stuff and just ask for forgiveness and bury things that you have opened up in life that that are connected to you because it's a spiritual battle. This isn't just about flesh and blood. It's very much so a spiritual battle. So we have this wholeness at our church. And my wife went and uh she had she had pretty bad anxiety and depression, and she went and just it changed everything. I I gotta see her not fear everything, not have all this anxiety, and and just she became beautiful. Like just just a different glow about her. She was free. She like the burden was like lifted off of her, and she wasn't just like full of anxiety and like crippling anxiety, if you will. And anybody that's had a wife or uh somebody very close with with crippling anxiety, it's it's hard to watch them because they're just like it's like self-destructive. They just can't get up and can't go and they can't do anything.

Chris Grainger 29:57

Yep.

Meeting God As A Lion

Joseph Hart 29:58

And it's it's so hard because there's nothing you can do. It's a battle within, and there's nothing you can do to help them. So I watched her break free from that. It was like, whoa. And she encouraged me. She's like, you need to go this. It's like, man, I don't know. I'm not gonna go meet with with a a woman at our church, you know, who's who's on our church staff who does this wholeness. Like, I'm not gonna do that. That's that's weird. No chance. And and uh she kept pushing at it. And I again I just saw consistency over time of her improving, getting better. And I was like, you know what? All right. So I made an appointment, so scared. I was like, called the church, make an appointment. I'm like, they're gonna judge me. They're gonna know when they're scheduling that I'm gonna go see this lady and they're gonna know I have problems. They're gonna know. And it's like I'm so worried about people knowing that I wasn't like had my life together and just wasn't wasn't the case. And nobody, nobody knew, nobody said nothing. And if they did, I don't care today. But uh went through this session, and mind you, these sessions are probably like three hours long. Uh just there's a lot to unpack, and sometimes you go back for maybe once or twice, maybe three times. Went to the first one, and it was like six hours long, and it changed my life. It was like the weight lifted off my back. It was like I could see clearly, it wasn't a burden anymore. Like I lived in such a dark cloud of just like frustration and anger, and it was no longer there anymore. And it was like whole, I'm delivered from this bondage. And just wild. It just wild. And so first session, I end up going to six sessions. Like that's how I had a lot of baggage packed up in there. Wow. Um, so it's just a lot of generational curses, things that my my dad did, uh family issues being part of the call, like just so many things that like you just don't know. And it was it's kind of crazy. Like, God gives us all gifts. And so I'm gonna be very careful on how I'm gonna say this. But like when you have an encounter with God and he reveals himself to you because you're seeking them out, it can look in so many different ways. Um, just how he shows himself to you. Some people it's through reading, some people it's through visions, uh, when they're sleeping, dreams, maybe during the day, it could be all sorts and arrays of things. Like maybe God even shows you things like personally walking out through life. You know, there's there's just stories of everybody's different. And so I want to be careful that nobody listens to this and like, well, why doesn't God show himself that way? And it's like, you're not me, I'm not you. We're all gonna have a different encounter with God, and what that looks like is completely different. So just emphasis on that. But through praying and really seeking God and like taking the time and being with somebody who is a leader in this area of prayer. Um, they have so uh this this wholeness counselor, she's she's praying, and then there's an intercessor behind you, so you're not alone. And and that person's like, they have the gift of vision as well, and so they can see things like God does reveal things to us. So I remember like my eyes closed, all of a sudden I could see stuff. It was like almost like I like right in front of my face, but my eyes are closed and I can just like see, and it was like, What is this? And she was explaining the things that I could see. She's like, Look to your left, do you see that? And I'm like, Yeah, and I would explain like what I'm seeing, like I'm seeing like a tree, and she's like, What's up in the tree? And like just different things, and it was like this is weird. Like, I'm trying to stay away from this weird stuff because like that's what I came from. Like, I ain't about this cult stuff, and it wasn't, it was just like God revealed himself to me, and it was just a beautiful moment for me to be like, okay, this is this is legit, like this isn't just mumbo jumbo, this isn't the things that you read about, and like these crazy people that see things and do whatever, it just became real, just became real to me. And so through all that, God revealed himself to me in the form of a lion, which was like super cool. I was like, that's weird. Like, I always thought God was a man. And it's like, well, he can be anything, and he's God, and so I I thought it was interesting. So I became on this pursuit to like search and seek out God, and so I felt like after leaving some of those sessions, it was like, okay, God, I see you as a lion. That's who you are to me. You are powerful, you're strong, but yet soft. You know, I can I can go up and hug you, I can, I can do these things, and it's like it's just very real to me. And so that's how I see God when I when I see God in connection is is in the form of a lion. And so like God would lead me through so a bunch of things, and like so I would see a lion here, and it was like, okay. Like, so I kind of plug into that, and I just would be like filled with this fear and different things. And then one of the craziest things is I was listening to podcasts, I think I was listening to some Ramsey podcasts or something like that. And and uh saw podcasts with the lion on the and I was like, that's weird, the line within. Okay, started listening to this dude, and I was like, this dude makes sense. Like this, this is kind of what I need. So I started listening to the Line Within podcast, and it kind of all wrapped up into here, and it's like this is where I was called to be. Uh and so I'm super thankful for for that and have been in the line for I don't know now. It's been a couple years.

Chris Grainger 36:03

Yeah. Yeah. It has.

Joseph Hart 36:07

It's been a couple years. But I I I'll always remember that.

Chris Grainger 36:12

I was just saying it's been great, man, because you've been I have found through our friendship and relationship it's developed, but it's your your story. You know, you're just an encourager, but you had to go through some stuff. And I think that's why you love people the way you do right now. It's is because of the the steps you you went through in the pursuit. He was he was pursuing you the whole time. And I just you're you're one of my chief encouragement officers, that's for sure. And and I just man, it's uh I didn't know some of the details though. I mean, I really didn't know, but I mean I I'm just so uh appreciative for you being honest and and and and open just just to share that because I know it wasn't easy.

How The Lion Strengthens Men

Joseph Hart 36:57

Appreciate it, thank you. I always say too much grace given, much is expected. And it's it's interesting being married to somebody who's I mean, like I I kid you not, like she don't she didn't break the rules. She is a rule follower to the T, and if it even looks like it's close to the line, she's like, not gonna do it. I'm like, how far how close can we get to this line? You know what I'm saying? So we're complete opposites. But it's interesting being married to somebody like that because we see things completely different. She's like black and white, and I'm kind of in the gray a little bit in most cases, but just how much grace I've been given is just overwhelming. It's just so much joy in it. We've had these conversations where she's like, Well, I don't feel that. And it's like, I mean, I'm not gonna go tell you to break the rules and get more grace. Like, that ain't a good thing either. Like, that's not you can't tell people that stuff. But I'm kind of like, I just feel so much blessed. You know, there's just so much forgiveness and grace that I've been given that I get to give that to other people because I mean there ain't nothing special about me. I mean, the good Lord's just forgiving me and giving me grace. So it I find it very easy, kind of like what you said, is to be happy and joyful and encouraging because I've just been given so much that I don't deserve. And so it sometimes it's hard for her to see things like that because she's like, that person should just be following the rules. And I'm like, maybe it's just a dude. Like they just messed up, that's all. She's like, but that's breaking the rules. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. So it's very funny that we have these conversations um through the years. The line has just been fantastic for me. It's been there for me through some major changes in my life. Absolutely major changes. So just coming out of that that place of healing when I was connected with the line, it was like starting life over again. It's like, okay, Lord, like you humbled me, broke me down. I chose to broke myself down. I should say that. I'll just put that. Um so humbled me and really got to choose to build this life with God instead as an ultimate sacrificing glory to God with other people, which is cool. It's like for the first time, I'm actually like asking people for help, asking people to teach me things, and then confirm it with the Holy Spirit. Is this good? Is this right? And take little things here and there and really just build upon a good foundation. One of one of the verses that God's really connected with me over the years is Matthew 25, 21. It talks about the parable of the talents, and God's given us all talents, and what you do with those talents, you're going to be accountable for at the end. Right. And that plays into so much in our lives. You know, what are you good at and are you doing that? And so many people feel unfulfilled because they're not operating in their talents, they're operating what the world says is good money or whatever, and they're just not finding joy. And the line is there for me to kind of help me guide me through that. Uh I say the line, and there has been a lot of good people, but I definitely say a big thanks in connection with you, Mr. Granger himself. I mean, I I met you and you were short-haired Till Billy. Now you're now you're sophisticated, long-haired. Uh it's it's beautiful, but it it's it's funny, you know, how much I was reflecting on this when I was trying to think about, you know, what to even say during this. Um, like, how has the line really impacted me, my life and my family, and and what am I supposed to do? And I so I looked through all the aspects of my life when I when I really started reflecting over the last couple of years in every major part and everything of my life. I've really connected either with you or somebody within the line. I was thinking about like when I first started, like financially, we I put myself and my family in another pickle, if you will. Um, my wife wanted to be a stay-home mom, and and I was like, Well, I want to make you happy, but we can't financially do it. And so uh trying to do different things, and it's just like, yeah, we're just not gonna make enough. So I remember talking with you and Adam Rushing, like, how do I get my budget together? Because we were spending way too much on going out to eat and me trying to say yes to my wife all the time. And it was like, I gotta say no. And Mr. Rushing is very clear on no, he's very much a black and white dude. I love my my my Adam Rushing there. He's he's very black and white. Just like, no, why would you do that? It doesn't make financial sense. I'm like, what? Um, so uh got on the Dave Ramsay and and you guys really encouraged me to go through a lot of that stuff and guide me into right financial decisions. And now I do the Dave Ramsay-ish. Yeah, you're not great, but we're doing better, right? Um marriage, I mean, looking at my wife and and leading. I've learned a lot from you and just like how you do anything is how you do everything. So, like, serve your wife. You know, that's what a true leader means. You know, I watched my dad do it the wrong way, and so I didn't have a good example. And so talking to you guys, and how are you guys handling this kind of thing and learning to lead? I mean, I know you've had you've had some struggles, man. I mean, you've you've had uh a previous marriage that didn't work, and and there's there's a lot that I learned through your your sharing of all that stuff. Um being a father, I didn't know how to do that. And and like I said, I didn't even like feel the emotional tie. And all of a sudden, you know, when I found that wholeness with God, it was like all the emotions kind of came flooding back and it was super overwhelming, but it was like joy. It hurt. There's a lot of hurt, but it there's a lot of joy in learning to forgive first completely unlocked my life. And if there's somebody there that you haven't forgiven, like, how can you be forgiven? The littlest things. And so, like, learning to forgive was was huge. I remember going through a summit talking about forgiveness with you, and it's like, man, if there's other people that I haven't forgiven, I haven't forgiven my own father. So, like, how could anybody else forgive me? Could God forgive me? And until like taking that step of forgiving my dad for everything allowed me to love and to move forward in growth. So I appreciate that. And then I can't tell you how many jobs I've had the last couple of years, but man, brother, you've been there for them, all of them. I've had an interesting rocky career, and it's been fantastic. But going for sales and you leading sales in the past and just all the roles that you've had and how much input you've had in my life of just like, how do I negotiate? Like, you know, what's a fair rate for this? Can I can I tell the company that I'm interviewing with that I want to make X amount of money? And you're like, yeah, go for it. Like, this is what I've seen, and like giving me that confidence to be like, I'm not out in the ballpark, I'm not overreaching where I might lose the job. So it's so helpful to have a mentor like you just, you know, like go in there with confidence, but don't walk in there asking for something. Show them like what you're bringing to the table, what value you're bringing to the table. And then uh over the years, you know, just been able to step into some leadership positions and like how do you lead people? How do you serve people? And how do you work with owners who are you know difficult at times, you know, and and working with other leaders, you know, that you're supposed to work together with and the trials to go through that. So just very blessed to have you and and many guys. I remember talking to Marcus a lot too, and you know, all of you guys and and Jeremy as well, and just like the summit sharpening iron was was probably one of the best things that I've ever been through in my life. So many times of struggles that that y'all just it was like, Oh, Joe's talking again, he's got another problem. Uh but I love growth and and y'all were just super, super cool to to teach me.

Chris Grainger 45:01

Well, I mean that's what it's all about, right? It's serving each other and encouraging each other, and it's hard to find. That man, it's really hard. And I think God's got his hand on it. And and I don't know, Joe, there may even be a guy listening who's like, Man, Joe's story is resonating. Uh I but I don't have that counsel. I don't have that Banner Brothers. I don't have that that personal board of advisors. What would be your encouragement to him to check out at least what we're doing at the lion? May we may not be the answer, but we could definitely be somewhere that maybe could help him find what that answer looks like. What would be your encouragement to that guy to take some action right now?

Humility And Asking Better Questions

Joseph Hart 45:39

Yeah, the best best thing you can do, man. I'm just gonna look at you guys straight in the eyes here and just tell you, be humble. Ask people what are the right questions to ask. That was something that I always spent a lot of time telling people what I was doing or what I had overcome, but I wasn't asking questions. Hey, what if you were in my position, here's what's going on, what would you do or what questions would you ask? I remember so many times talking to you, Chris, and you're like, well, why don't you just ask them what their expectation is? And I was like, well, no, no, I can't do that. I have to anticipate. Just like you don't have to, you can be humble and you can just, I don't know, ask. So like give that freedom to somebody else to speak into your life. Hey, what questions should I be asking? You know, because we all can become selfish and we can all become sometimes we maybe even just just not thinking that we're worthy enough. So what do people see in us in ways that they've overcome that could help us overcome and be moldable? So just again, it comes back to that humbleness, just being open. Um, I so when you do that in that vulnerable state, you know, that that's awkward. But also like learning to pray. Like, holy spirit, I just want you to fill my life. I want you to guide me in everything and ask, like, Lord, should I do this? Yeah, make it abundantly clear for me, or or tell me like, just give me the eebie jeebies. And I'm like, no, I gotta stay away from that. That's not good. If you will. And just ask it's the right questions. But seek and you will find. I mean, it says all over the Bible, seek and you will find. And so put yourself out there, be vulnerable yet again. You know, you're not gonna die. That's the beauty of the line. At least you can post in the chat, you can post prayer requests, you can post your sins, and that's that's one of the best places is you gotta to get to a place of healthiness and environment where you can grow, you need to walk away from the sin and surrender and bring all that dirt out. You know, like Satan's wanting you to stay in that dark mansion, in that dark building that that you're locked into. He's got a hold on you.

Chris Grainger 48:03

Right.

Joseph Hart 48:03

You gotta walk out. And that ain't easy, but there's brothers that will walk with you that have been there that as well, and you're not alone at all. But that's what Satan wants you to do. I mean, that's the greatest war strategy ever, divide and conquer. Yeah, and so he's he may have you out in a foothold, he might have you in a dark place, but it's like reach out to a brother like I'm struggling. That's all you have to say. And maybe the first brother may not get it, may not pick up the thing, but go out again. I'm struggling. And reach out and don't listen to the darkness that it's just like ah, they didn't care enough because maybe that just wasn't the right time or the right person, but try again and try again. And one of these days somebody's gonna grab on you and just be like, I'm gonna love you, bro. I'm gonna tell you what you're doing is wrong. I'm gonna help you bring that out into the light, and we're gonna kill it. We're gonna destroy that sin, we're gonna ask God for forgiveness, and we're gonna release you from that bondage that you're stuck in, whether it's an addiction, something you're battling, or just maybe it's just hurt. That you just need to be loved. And we as men, we need to be loved. We really just do. And so I I would say that be humble and and become become open, vulnerable. That's what I would say.

Chris Grainger 49:28

Love it. Love it. And you talk about stepping into the light. I mean, that's our our book of the week, guys. Is this I said, when when kingdom light shines and Joe just really unpacked a beautiful story of how he was in darkness, he steps into the light, and now you're seeing. And I get to see how Joe encourages, he speaks life into all so many guys that joined Alliance. So Joe, it's been a it's been an honor, man, just having you on and and having you unpack and share, and it's been such an encouragement to me. I just want to say thank you again.

Dad Jokes And Spiritual Passivity

Joseph Hart 49:58

It's my pleasure, and thank you. Just for all that you've meant for me in my life and just being there in the hard times. And like I say, when life happens, and it will happen. It will happen. You know, who's in your corner? Who knows you enough to say, bro, that's wrong.

Chris Grainger 50:14

Right. Well, we're uh we're honored to have you, man. Before we before we wrap it up, I got a couple of dead jokes I want to run by. Since you are dead, you qualify, man. So uh let me see what let me see which one lands best for you. How about that? So let's do it. Uh first one is what happened to two slices of bread that went out on a date, do you know?

Joseph Hart 50:33

I can't say.

Chris Grainger 50:34

I don't know. It was a loaf at first at sight. That's pretty bad. Anyway. It's all right. It's all right. I guess we're coming out of Valentine's.

Joseph Hart 50:45

It's all right. It's a little mushy. Yeah, it's it's pretty mushy.

Chris Grainger 50:48

So here's another one. So I had a quiet game of tennis today, Joe.

Joseph Hart 50:54

Why is that? Because there was no racket, man.

Chris Grainger 50:59

So all right, I like that one. You can save your kids up for that one. Let's go with that one. Yeah, we'll go with number two this week, number two this week. So anyway, so that's that's the dad joke, guys. We've been doing we do a poll every Friday, guys, but in the line for our dad jokes. So uh another just a fun way we do every Friday. And I always just like to see where a guy's vote just to see where they're wrong. But anyway, so that's just part of it. So but our question of the week, guys, is where have you been spiritually passive instead of boldly aligned with what Christ is calling you to do? So, fellas, I mean that that passivity, that spiritual passivity, you hear me talk about it all the time. We can't afford to have to just be that anymore. We gotta take, take the stand, take the lead. You've been called to lead whatever it is. It's your family, it could be in your career and your community. We all have been called in different areas to stop. We gotta stop advocating that responsibility and leaning into it the way Joe is. So, Joe, man, thank you again, brother, for sharing. Anything else you want to say before we wrap up here?

Joseph Hart 51:56

Oh man, it's been a pleasure. I that the only thing I'd say on that passivity, man, it's so easy to get distracted with our careers, whatever it might be, busyness in life. You know, God never called us to be busy, busy. But that passive place of just not praying for your kids, praying with your wife, it's brothers. If I can tell you something, it's pray, pray, pray, pray over them, for them, with them, teach them to pray. It's like handing your kid a sword, you know, that was like the hard, hard thing to get my son to pray for a long time and he's dying now, he's almost 10. And it, you know, every night we pray now, and he's able to pray out loud. But that was probably a year journey of frustration and like, why aren't you praying? You know, and it's it's like just set an example and be consistent. Amen. And pray over your spouse. And if if that brings some fear in you, like talk about it, bring it out into the light, you know, reach out to any of us. We're happy to talk it through. But pray for your wife, and it's gonna be super weird, super awkward. But it that's what we're called to do, and I'm gonna tell you it's gonna change everything.

Closing Charge To Pray At Home

Sexual Integrity Support Group Invite

Chris Grainger 53:02

100%. 100%. Well, guys, you got to hear it firsthand right here. Joe, get connected with him. Thelionwithin.us is where you find all the resources, guys. We've talked about everything today. We've talked about the daily SKO, we've talked a little bit about the Lion's Den and these the ways that Joe connects with guys. We also have our mastermind, we have our live event. We have so many ways, guys, to uh to connect to plug in. So thelionwithin.us is where you find it. Give us a rating review, and just remember to keep unleashing the lion within. It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying this is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without commendation, and you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So, look, this isn't just about stopping pornography, it's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean your stuff up first to come. You just have to step in. So, our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30 day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30 day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thelionwithin.us, and step inside the lion's den.