Welcome And Scripture Kickoff

Chris Grainger 1:43

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders, God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, fellas, meet episode time. Let's get into it. Okay, so scripture the week this week is Revelation 21, verse 5. It says, And he who sits on the throne said, Behold, I am making all things new. Not some things, all things new. So, guys, that scripture is the SKO, the spiritual kickoff episode. This be our last podcast in your podcast feed, but just go back one. Took some time to unpack that at length to hopefully help you simplify and apply it to your life. Quick reminder: we do this Monday through Friday at the Lionel within us, guys. We love doing this. We love taking God's word, sharing it, and helping you apply it to your life. That's what it's all about. That's truly being discipleship one-on-one. This is what we do. So look, the daily spiritual kickoff is something we just want to give you. It's a free way that we try to serve. There's also a free gift you get when you join the daily spiritual kickoff. So there's way, there's lots of ways and lots of value there. It also gives you access to our prayer request space. And every Monday, we have our prayer warrior huddle. So, guys, if you just if you're looking for some guys to come alongside to pray with you, to just be an encouragement to you, just to speak life to you, and without any worries of this world of types of judgment or anything like that, fellas, this is what we built the Lion Within us for. Like there's no outsiders, there's no people uh from from the like you have to you have to opt in, and once you're in, we're gonna take care of those inside, okay? So look, thelionwithin.us is our website. Head over there, start your free daily spiritual kickoff. I'd love to see you there, okay? All right, now for this episode, it's gonna be a fun one, though. It's talking about being kind of Christian. So we brought in uh our brother Roger, uh Roger Ross, okay? So he's a native of Cambridge, Illinois. Uh uh he served as a pastor in before in Texas, and this had just a really fun conversation talking deeply about discipleship and how do we move from kind of Christian to truly being serious about Jesus. Okay. So Roger is just uh he he he unpacks a lot of good truths here. We spent a fair amount of time unpacking grace and also uh glory. And what does that look like for Christian men, particularly for guys who who who need to have that time alone with God? Well, when that when it hits and we can't get that time, or maybe the evil one's attacking, Roger gives a great tips and advice on how to put that into practice into play. Okay. So look, super fun guy, had a lot of fun with him. So enjoy this conversation with Roger Ross. Roger, welcome to The Lion Within Us. How are you doing today? Good. Thank you, Chris. Great to be with you. Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to this time with you. We always like to start by just sharing something fun about you, maybe that not many people know about, sir.

Roger Ross 4:40

Well, uh, I'd like to uh do a little scuba diving. Uh back in the day when I was uh going through college, I was thought I was gonna be a marine biologist. And so the only thing that's left from that is the fact that I like to go scuba diving in warm blue water, and I have a 75-gallon fish tank uh in the living room to remind me that uh that was a passion of mine and still is. Oh wow. How often do you get to go scuba diving? Uh not very often. Uh I did actually a couple weeks ago for the first time in about four years. Uh, but um but I've been doing it for 10 years or so now and I really love it. Okay. Okay.

Chris Grainger 5:16

Now you're I'm assuming you're head, your head you said warm blue water, so where are you going when you do that usually?

Roger Ross 5:22

Uh well, uh either to a place like Hawaii or the Florida Keys. Uh this last time we went to Belize for the first time. So uh someplace that I'm gonna be able to see coral and pretty fish, and it's gonna be warm.

The Book’s Big Idea

Chris Grainger 5:37

There you go. There you go. Well, we'll we'll we'll take anything warm here. It's it's a cold winter we're dealing with right now, that's for sure. Yeah. All right. Well, this thank you for spending the time with us today. And I love your book, Kinda Christian. I love the title, first of all. So, how'd you come up with the title Kind of Christian?

Roger Ross 5:56

You know, we spent a long time working on that. I can't, we had hundreds of titles, and we finally kind of came down to that because we're looking for something that that would help people to get a sense that, you know, there are lots of folks that are open to the Christian faith, lots of folks that uh, in fact, that this the this younger generation, the the generation Z, they're they're called worldwide the open generation. They're just open to all kinds of things spiritually that may or may not include Christianity as uh as a first priority. Uh, but what what what I uh what I really wanted to communicate was that there's more to being a Christian uh than uh what we culturally talk about in our uh in our American society. You know, we we have a uh a lot of people in in uh America that uh I would say would be good people, they would check the Christian box if they're asked, but but they feel like something's missing. They may or may or may not go to church. Uh they uh but yet deep down they wonder if there's something that can fill the emptiness inside. And you know, they they may have a lot of experience with church at some point in their lives, and they just kind of gave up on it. Um but there's still something that's that's stirring inside of them, and they're curious, like they they're spiritually wondering about what could possibly be true, what could actually uh lead me into a life that's more genuine and authentic, and that's what the book is really for. It's really to try to to grab hold of folks that uh have that spiritual curiosity but don't know what to do with it and where it could lead. Right.

Chris Grainger 7:35

Well, I mean, the timing of the book is pretty good. I mean, there's lots of people who are thinking are leaning in now and and starting to to peel back and recognize there's more to this world than the things this world has to offer. So, I mean, do you think your timing of it is pretty good? Obviously, the for the message?

Roger Ross 7:52

Yeah, actually uh I I have gotten a lot of good response from folks about this. Uh they uh they've said that it it actually is hitting them where they really wanted uh to kind of scratch the itch, so to speak. Uh and uh I've uh I I've found that that you know it's this is the book that's actually helpful for people that are kind of on the outside looking into the Christian faith, but also uh a lot of folks that maybe have been in church for a while, but it just hasn't clicks for them. You know, they they may know the Christian faith, they may know the Christian story, uh, they maybe even believe in Jesus, but they don't always know how to follow him. Right. And so this this really provides like a six-part uh spiritual path uh to help people be able to make that journey into uh a deeply devoted disciple and live the life that Jesus genuinely invites us to live.

The Fear Behind Holding Back

Chris Grainger 8:47

Right. Well, I mean, what do you think is the initial hurdle that so many people have spiritually to move from that hesitation to you know not being kind of Christian, but being all in? Well, anything from your research or just talking to people that that really is a common theme.

Roger Ross 9:05

Well, there's uh there's a fear of a loss of control. We all have that fear. You know, there's uh there's a fear uh that they'll become something that they don't want to be, uh, that somehow uh they'll they'll become bizarre or uh unacceptable to their friends and neighbors, that uh they'll become somewhat in someone that they don't even recognize themselves. Uh and that's actually completely the opposite of what Jesus wants to do in our lives. He wants us to uh to wants to help us become more of who we were actually created to be uh and uh live more fully into uh that designed us to be. So uh so that's that's a fault. It's a very real one, and it keeps people uh kind of with their arm out and step arming God in a sense, uh, so that they uh don't lose what they have uh spent a lot of time trying to build up in their lives.

Chris Grainger 10:02

Right. Right. And you you mentioned a a lot in the book around passive faith, moving from that to active discipleship. So, I mean, maybe explain for a listener out there who's who's okay, what fundamentally, what does that look like, you know, up in the life if it's uh being applied correctly?

Defining A Disciple With G6

Roger Ross 10:20

Yeah, that's a good question. Uh maybe it would help if I uh talked a little bit about how the book came into being. Uh uh. I've been a pastor, been a pastor for most of uh my adult life. And uh I in the last church that I served, uh we kept having people that would show up, and uh our our general mission was to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world. And and we'd have newcomers show up and they'd say, Hey, love that whole transformation of the world thing, but what's a disciple? There you go. And we're like, we're like, everybody knows what a disciple is. You know, it's it's a little of this, it's a little of that. We know one when we see one. And that wasn't very helpful. Uh so finally I got the other pastors together and I said, look, we we got to come up with a better answer than this. This is ridiculous. So I said, how hard could it be? Let's just take three weeks and knock out something, and and then then we'll be able to actually answer people instead of uh kind of fumbling around. Right. Eight months late months later, we we finally had something that we could bring to our leadership team and uh talk to uh a variety of people within the church to say, look, this is what we think it really means to be a disciple. And it was a much uh larger, deeper, more fully orbed uh approach uh to discipleship than we had before because we hadn't actually done the work. We haven't hadn't gone gone down and wrestled into our guts and wrestled with scripture and tried to figure out how would we actually define this so that someone could get it and live it. Uh and uh we actually kind of came up with three major characteristics. You know, a disciple would love God, would um uh would launch community and unleash compassion. Those are the kinds of things that that disciples do. But then there were six marks of a disciple, and they all kind of started with the G's, we can call them our our G6 network. Uh and those G's are glory, the glory of God, glory, grace, group, growth, giftedness, and generosity. And um we believed if if someone uh were to live into those six Gs, and each one of them has an inward experience to them and an outward expression. I so um so there's something that happens inside a person, but it also is seen outwardly in the way they live their lives. So those six things uh were a part of our overall process, and that became our discipleship process in that church. So then when someone came up to us and said, What's a disciple? We actually had a good answer. Right. And the three the core three beginning it was love God, unleash, go through those three those three or more times. Yeah. Yeah. Uh love God, uh, launch community, and and unleash compassion. Okay.

Chris Grainger 13:13

And by doing that and then going through the six Gs, did that start clicking for your church members?

Roger Ross 13:19

So it actually really did. So this we we first came up with this in 2014, 2013, 2014, and then kind of uh shared it with the entire congregation in the fall of 2014. Uh that I I'm not serving that church anymore. That church is still using uh this process, this process, and found it to be very fruitful. Hundreds of people have been through it at this point uh in that church. Uh and uh now we're we're just kind of spreading it out because I kept having these conversations. I I work now as a as a coach and uh consultant with pastors and church leaders and their leadership teams and and some nonprofits as well. And and I uh in in my conversations with pastors around the country, uh we keep having the same kind of conversation. I I would say, well, you know, tell me more about what's going on at your church, and and uh I'd say, well, what's what's your mission? And uh broadly speaking, everybody's mission has something to do with making disciples of Jesus, right?

Chris Grainger 14:17

Right.

Roger Ross 14:18

So uh uh so I'd say, well, um tell me about that. Uh if that's if that's your mission, do you have a common understanding at your church of what a disciple is? And they'd say, Well, no, no, we don't have that. I said, Well, do you have some kind of pathway to make a disciple? And I say, Well, no, I'm gonna get a membership class. Nah, that's not it. So, so basically what you're saying is your mission is to make disciples, but you don't know what one looks like and you don't have a pathway to make one. So, how's your mission going? Right. Right? And uh and I have a great compassion for people like that because that's that was the situation that I found myself in in the last church that we were serving. So that's why we had to kind of dig down and figure out a way to approach this so that we wouldn't get stuck in that same pattern.

Sexual Integrity Support Group Message

Turning Principles Into Practices

Chris Grainger 15:13

Right. Wow. That's that's incredible. So look, we're gonna take our quick first break, guys. We'll come back and keep digging in with Roger. It's time to stop battling pornography, lust, and temptation alone. We're done sitting on the sidelines, seeing shame win, and hearing from guys that are fighting private wars with no backup. So we decided it's time to fight back. We have our sexual integrity support group, which is a confidential space inside the lion's den for men who are ready to step into the light and pursue real freedom. This isn't just for guys in crisis, by the way. It's for any man who's tired of the cycle, who's tired of living in secret, who's tired of saying this is gonna be the last time. Look, most guys don't need another app or some rules. They need some brothers to come alongside them to say you're not the only one. This doesn't define you. And freedom is possible. So look, inside our group, you're gonna find a confidential, judgment-free forum to engage and ask questions. You'll have honest conversations without commendation. And you'll also have a monthly call with a trusted guide. So look, this isn't just about stopping pornography. It's about becoming a man of integrity, a man aligned, a man who lives in freedom, not secrecy. And you don't have to clean yourself up first to come. You just have to step in. So our sexual integrity support group is found inside the lion's den. And you can start that today with a 30-day free trial. So if you're ready to stop fighting alone and need that extra support, start your 30-day free trial right now at thelionwithin.us. That's thelionwithin.us, and step inside the lion's den. So I am curious, Roger, as as you as you roll this out, you got six G's, got a framework. How long does it take when you were putting this together to walk someone through to get to a full understanding of what a disciple is?

Roger Ross 17:23

Yeah, it so it's it's an iterative pro iterative process. Uh so what we did uh uh initially was to do like a seven or eight week uh sermon series, actually. Uh and then uh we connected that with the class uh that people could participate in, but we we staggered it a little bit. So we would have uh I think it was maybe three uh of the initial uh messages before we started the class so that they got a chance to kind of get a taste and and understand where we were going, and that gave us a chance to promote the class. And so then then it was uh kind of a uh almost a reverb. You're hearing it on Sunday morning, then then you're hearing what's going on in the class and getting a chance to discuss it and and take it in. You know, my experience uh of uh people being able to grow is that uh it doesn't really go through a person's heart until it comes through a person's lips. But you have to actually say it yourself. Say the words. You can exactly, exactly. You can hear somebody else say it, you can agree with it, but it doesn't actually touch you on a deeper personal level. You've got to process it, you've got to say the words, right? And so that's why the the class time, which we would then break into small groups in a lot of that class time, to give people opportunity to actually say the words themselves and process it on a deeper level. Uh and then uh there'd be people that go through that class, you know, uh more than one time, uh two, three times, uh, because uh it it takes a while to wear a groove. You know, if you haven't done any of these things, is because it it's not just about uh principles, it's about practices. Each of the Gs uh has specific practices that go with them, spiritual practices. Uh and uh if you haven't done those kinds of things before, it takes a little while to implement those in your own life, kind of get the hang of it, uh, and allow them to uh really start to do the work that they can do on a deeper level in your heart. Right.

Chris Grainger 19:36

I mean that kind of led me because I was getting ready to go there. So you go through the class, you get the fundamental knowledge, you speak the words, but then it has to turn to the action. So I guess is there a mentorship component of this as well that you think is important to really walk it out?

Roger Ross 19:53

Yeah, so the actually the people that uh that embrace this the most deeply are people that were in uh either like one-on-one mentorship classes or groups rather, or in smaller groups where they said, hey, you know, we're gonna take this and uh hold each other lovingly accountable for practicing some of these disciplines that are new to us that we've never tried before. Uh, and then just see how they work in our lives. Uh because uh, you know, I you know, my experience is that the spiritual disciplines, spiritual practices are self-validating. If if you do them, you'll understand why Christians have done them for centuries. Uh they they just have a power to shape us from the inside out.

Chris Grainger 20:42

When do you when you look at the men that have gone through that course and the and the men that you've worked with in the past, what do you think is the spiritual practice that guys struggle with the most? I'm just very curious. Is there something that just keeps popping up for you?

Roger Ross 20:55

Wow, that's a great question. Uh actually, uh one that I found to be really difficult for men, because men tend to be doers, uh, is solitude. You know, it's just being with God, you know. Um uh Psalm 46, 10, you know, be still and know that I am God. Uh men really struggle with that because uh a part of uh of uh uh the first G glory uh is practicing solitude, spending time alone with God so that you can hear from God. And men uh sometimes struggle with that, uh oftentimes struggle with that because they like to be active, they like to be doing something, like to be accomplishing things, and it doesn't feel like you're accomplishing anything when you're being. But you know, a scripture doesn't say do still. It says be still. Yeah. And that's a challenge for us.

Chris Grainger 21:53

What do you think, guys, the challenge is we think that means we're being lazy?

Roger Ross 21:58

Yeah, that we're not being productive, yeah. Uh that the uh there are all these things that we should be doing, that we're in charge of this or that, and we need to get to it. And uh and actually uh the the being part uh of solitude is uh having uh a plate like a creating a chapel in your heart to be able to be in the presence of God all the time throughout your day. This is a 24-7 thing, this is not you know just a few minutes here or there during a day. Uh and uh to create that chapel in your heart where you can have that ongoing solitude, it does take some specific time where you are cultivating that.

Chris Grainger 22:40

Right.

Roger Ross 22:40

Uh and uh and um and it just it takes a commitment on every person's part to be able to do that, man or woman, uh boy or girl. Uh it just takes a uh a commitment to spend that time alone with God, to to hewn out uh essentially that chapel in your heart, so that you can continue to be in an attitude of worship and praise and and be to the presence of God, you know, day by day, moment by moment, not just occasionally. Right, right.

Grace You Receive Then Give

Chris Grainger 23:17

I I'm curious, the second G being grace for guys, I know for me, sometimes I feel like I got two cups of wrath and and God forgot to put the grace in me, you know, when it w when it when he was when he was mixing me up. So any tips for guys who struggle with that grace component, anything that you felt that you have found has been helpful for guys. Who struggle with extending grace?

Roger Ross 23:44

Well, there's a a combination of things that are going on here. One is um receiving grace, and the other is extending it. It's very difficult, very difficult to extend grace to others if you've never personally received it. So to personally receive grace, uh my experience for that with with regard to that in my own life and and other men that I've talked to is oftentimes you you you just about need to come to a desperation point. You you you you kind of need to come to a place where uh you you've tried everything you know how to try and it hasn't worked. Right. And then you finally, uh at at uh perhaps a a pretty down point in your life, you finally turn toward God and say, okay, I need something that I can't produce on my own, that I can't make happen, that's not within my power. I need you to do something that I can't do. And that's oftentimes when grace shows up in a powerful way in a man's life. Right. Right.

Chris Grainger 24:51

Wow, that's incredible. That's great. And I and I meant to ask you as well on the solitude piece. Practically speaking, for a guy who struggles with that, what what would be a step one? Just a just a small hurt, a small little win that they could do to start, you know, practicing grant uh solitude.

Roger Ross 25:10

Absolutely. Uh this is uh a great question. It comes up a lot, actually. Uh and uh we all have phones or sometimes you there's a little timer on your watch or whatever. Do you set set a timer set a timer for five minutes? Okay. Uh and uh and in that five minutes, and if that's too long, uh start with two. Uh and uh in a short period of time, two minutes, five minutes, whatever it is, um, pick a word or a phrase and just say it silently to yourself over and over again. It could be something as simple as Jesus. And you just say it silently, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. So it helps you. I just did this this morning uh for uh about 25 or 30 minutes. Uh I I just uh picked a word or a phrase and just said it silently to myself over and over again. And I'm just like everybody else. Like I have all kinds of thoughts bombarding me, you know, things I've got to do today, people I need to call, emails I need to send, texts, all that kind of stuff. Uh and uh yet if I do that over time, what will happen is I'll come out of the surface slush uh that's way up here, where I've got all these things yapping at me and trying to get my attention, and I'll eventually go down to a deeper place. And this for me, I I always set the timer to begin with for 20 minutes, because oftentimes it takes that long for me to get to that deeper place where I'm no longer distracted by all the stuff uh on the surface, and I can be in that that place that's really wed to God, that place that's deep within us.

Chris Grainger 26:46

Right.

Roger Ross 26:47

That place where we can actually uh speak to God and listen to God and hear the words of God. So for me, uh when I'm uh in that place, like uh just recently I was uh doing this, and I sensed the Lord saying to me, Stay with me. And so that became the phrase that I was would use over and over again in my mind. Just stay with me. Stay with me, stay with me, which is very much like what Jesus says in the 15th chapter of John, abide in me. Right, right.

Chris Grainger 27:24

But that purposeful time. Right. That's purposeful time that you're that you're blocking out, no distractions. I'm assuming you do this in a quiet place where you're no notifications are coming at you or anything like that to actually be able to be still.

Roger Ross 27:38

Yeah, so that's exactly right. I mean, in in that situation, usually I do that, you know, early in the morning because it's I'm less likely to be distracted by something at that point. And uh if I've got something with uh an on-off uh button on it, I turn it off. Right. Um, I mean, I uh that's why I actually use uh the the timer on my uh on my watch instead of on my uh phone because the phone has too many other things that could go off on it, right?

Chris Grainger 28:06

That's right.

Roger Ross 28:07

Uh so the timer on my watch, I mean, it's it's only that timer that's gonna go off on me at a certain time, and I'm good with that. And you know, uh when I when I'm out on a personal retreat or something, I don't need to uh set a timer. I mean, I can do it for 20 minutes or for two hours, doesn't matter because I'm on a personal retreat. But but uh on a day-to-day basis, uh it helps me to know, okay, after 20 minutes, uh, that gives me a gauge as to whether I need to stop at that point or keep going based on where I am in my own personal um relationship with Jesus. Have I gotten to that place of deeply poised center? Because that's where I want to live from.

Fighting Distraction And Pushback

Chris Grainger 28:55

When you try to start a practice like this, because he's I feel like the enemy is not gonna go down without a fight for any guy who wants to start a practice of solitude. So what can they expect it from so far as pushback and then how can they, you know, uh overcome that and fight back?

Roger Ross 29:12

Uh you will absolutely get pushback, uh, because uh this is uh this is a practice uh that is transformational uh if you engage in it over time. And so the enemy uh does not want that to happen in your life, guaranteed. Uh so uh there will be all kinds of excuses and distractions that will try to keep you from doing this. And so one of the best ways I know uh to mitigate some of that, at least, uh, is to find a regular time and a regular place where you can do this each day. Because if you have to hunt and peck uh for the place you're gonna do it and the time you're gonna do it every single day, that becomes a barrier to you actually doing it. And because something else will come up, you know, somebody else will claim that time, you know, um something that you didn't expect will all of a sudden show up and you'll have to do this instead of spending that time alone with God. But if you've if you've got that time set aside, you know when it's going to be, and you know the place where you're going to do it, you've you've got the chair already picked out, then you're more likely uh to engage in that practice on a regular basis.

Chris Grainger 30:23

Right. Right. I mean, you have to go on the the offensive here and and build those standards and those boundaries up. I mean, that's what I've found for sure.

Roger Ross 30:32

Yeah, I mean, intentionality is so incredibly important. Now, once you get to, I mean, let's say you you you've got that pretty well nailed down. You you know the time, uh, you know the place, and you're in an uh a regular rhythm with that. Still, when you get there, there will be all kinds of uh uh basically what I call a bombardment of distractions. Uh you'll have all these thoughts about what you need to do today, what you forgot to do from yesterday, oh, I've got to I've got I've got to deal with that. Today I had that very experience. Like uh I I started, like I wasn't even a minute into this time of solitude, and I had this bombardment. It's like, oh, I've got to remember to do this right after right after I get done with this, and uh, or should I go do it now? Or, you know, like you have those those kind of back and forth thoughts in your mind. And so one of the things I've learned to do with that is I either keep a little uh like a sticky note and a pen next to me. And if one of those things just is bombarding me and I can't get it out of my mind, I'll just write it down. I'll just stop for a moment. So I just write that sticky note and and then uh and I'll go right back because I'll I'll know then whenever I'm done praying, I can uh I can have that thing on the sticky note right next to me and it won't be forgotten. Right. Uh sometimes I even use my phone, just uh make a note on my phone uh really quickly, you know, and then just get right back to it because I know it won't get lost, and then therefore it stops distracting me.

Church Hurt And The Forgiveness Barrier

Chris Grainger 32:04

That's a great point. Great, great tip right there. Guys, we'll be right back with Roger. So I'm I am curious, Roger, on kind of going back to your kind of Christian. Maybe there's some guys listening and they're like, yeah, I'm kind of Christian because the church I went to, you don't know the stuff that I heard, or maybe they were maybe they were hurt in some way, or maybe the the pastor was, you know, has fallen and he's and they just like, you know what? I just don't know if I need this church thing. Well what would you say to a guy like that who's who's kind of on the fence and said, Man, I think kind of Christian is okay.

Roger Ross 32:37

Yeah, this this is such a real thing. Uh I've talked to so many people uh that have been hurt by the church, uh that that have been disappointed uh by the church, uh disappointed by leaders in the church and pastors in particular. It's just it's very real and it's painful. Uh and I get it because it's happened to me too. Um what what I would say uh is that um certainly people that follow Jesus will let us down at times. But Jesus will not let us down. Uh Jesus has never let us down. Uh and so what I would suggest to anyone who's who's really struggling with that, there may be some forgiveness issues that they need to um, you know, start to work on and resolve in their own hearts, uh, because bitterness is a real thing and it can keep you from being able being able to move forward in your own spiritual life. And if you've been hurt and you haven't been able to forgive, uh then that will be a barrier to you being able to grow deeper into your relationship with Christ. It's just it's just a fact. Right. So forgiveness is a a beginning point for many of us uh when we've had some level of church hurt. Um but I I would also say there are authentic Christian people out there. And there are churches that are healthy churches uh that uh are uh able to provide the kind of Christian community uh that you need at this point in your life. I mean Jesus I mean one of the things that that um uh is a deep conviction of mine is that Jesus didn't say go therefore and make Christians. You know, he was really clear about what his disciples were supposed to be doing. They were supposed to be involved in disciple making, and there's a big difference between being a Christian in our culture and being a disciple of Jesus. Right. And many people got uh, I think, caught up in the idea that if I I can just, you know, kind of uh raise my hand and uh walk the aisle and uh okay, I'm a Christian, uh, and uh then I'm done. That that's it. I've I've crossed the line of faith. Actually, that's just the beginning point. That's in in the marathon of life, that's the starting line. Right. Uh and then as you live your life of faith, it's the long run after that, and that's the discipleship part. And that's actually when it gets good, uh, when you actually run the race. Right.

Chris Grainger 35:25

Yeah, it's at the beginning, it's more just like fire insurance, you know, this trying to stay out of hell. Yeah. You know, and that versus the the true abiding to what you were talking about earlier, and maybe speak to the spiritually mature. Like we got a lot across the board listening to a lion, from the guys who are not believers to early believers to guys who are pre-mature in their walk, because they come to us and they tell us where they're at. So maybe for the mature Christian who's who's been walking for a long time, and maybe they're getting frustrated or they're they're running at, they they get out unpatient at times with trying to help their Timothy's, the ones that they're trying to nurture along. What words of advice or or encouragement would you offer them to not get frustrated, to not lose patience, but to keep trying to help cultivate and grow people in their own discipleship journey?

Making Disciples With The RIVER Path

Roger Ross 36:15

Yeah, that's uh another great question. You know, um uh a sign of a disciple, the the clearest sign of a disciple is that that person is making another disciple. Right? If someone is not in the process of making another disciple, they probably haven't gotten to the point of true discipleship yet. Uh and uh for those uh those that are listening that are in the process of making disciples there, that's that's a part of what they understand their life to be. Uh that's that's one of the things that I actually talk about at the towards the end, uh, I think it's maybe the eighth chapter. Uh it's talking about um uh how to uh how to reproduce disciples, how to multiply disciples. Okay, I think uh for disciple making uh to be able to to enjoy uh and uh get the the full benefit uh of making a disciple of another person, um there's a process. And I can kind of came up with a process that I call river, uh to use it uh as an acronym. It starts with relay and then invite, visualize, encourage, and then release. So uh when a person uh is relaying, what they're relaying is uh what God has done in their lives, how the Holy Spirit has shown up in their lives. And um and they relay that both um by teaching uh and by example, uh, and also by communicating in some way the power of the Holy Spirit through them to others. And as that happens, oftentimes you'll see the light uh kind of show up in a person's eyes, like, oh my gosh, that's that's more of what I want. That's that's exactly what I've been looking for. And so then you invite the person into a closer relationship with you, you know, whether it's one-on-one or a small group, and you just spend some time with that person on a regular basis, you know, every week, every couple of weeks. Uh, and uh there's there's a time for diatribal, which is a Greek word, which means basically just to rub off, you know, that the the Christ that's in you would rub off on other people as you're together. Uh that's exact exactly what Jesus did with his disciples, right? And then and then uh visualize is when you have a chance to say to the person that you've been spending time with, you've gotten to know that person, then you have an opportunity to say, This is what I see in you. You have uh uh one of those I see in you conversations, and you do essentially the work of a prophet, and you look into their heart and say, This is what I see in you. In this case, this is what I see in you, Chris. You know, I I see in you this heart to reach men, this heart to help men connect with Christ on a deeper level. And it's so important to you that you rearrange your life in such a way so that that men can have a deeper, closer walk with Christ. And it's inspiring. And there's there's more uh that Jesus wants to do in and through you as you go down this path. Uh and that's the kind of uh visualization that you're doing for others. You're you're you're helping them to see something in them that they may not be able to see in themselves. And oftentimes when you do that kind of thing, they'll be like, Me, really? You see that in me? Absolutely, I see that in you. And for the first time, they're beginning to see the work of God in them that was there all the time. They just were unaware of it. Right. And then you encourage them, right? You give them the chance uh to uh try out those things that uh you just shared with them is something that you visualized with them. Right. So you uh, you know, this might be something that you could do with them together, uh, some kind of ministry uh that you could do together and give them opportunity to actually practice the very things that uh you both agreed upon. There was something inside of them that God's trying to pull out. Right. And then lastly, of course, you release them, you know, to release them to do ministry and do the same kind of thing that you just did with them with somebody else. Right. That's that's a that's a multiplying uh experience. And when you when you see someone go through that process and then they're starting to do that with someone else, that's incredibly satisfying. Yeah. I mean, that that's like wow. This like this is has this has real mojo to it. This this this is an expansive movement. Right. Love that, love that.

Roger’s Turning Point Story

Chris Grainger 41:05

Love the acronym. So, guys, go back and listen to that part. I'm curious for you, Roger. Kind of Christian, what where was that point in your discipleship journey when you said, you know what, I'm done with being kind of Christian, and you leaned in.

Roger Ross 41:20

Uh well, it's actually a two-part story. Um, when I was 14 years old, uh, I really struggled with uh whether I uh had any kind of relationship with God whatsoever. My high school, Sunday school teacher, Sharon Rust, uh kept saying to us, you need to invite Jesus into your heart. Well, I you know, I I didn't know what that meant. Um I'm 14 years old. I'm like, you know, this this sounds like having a personal relationship with your toaster. Like, I don't know what you're talking about here.

Chris Grainger 41:47

Right.

Roger Ross 41:48

And and yet I got into a desperate point in my life, uh, even at that young age. And so one night uh in the privacy of my own bedroom, uh, it was late at night, nobody else in the house was awake. Uh, I just prayed my little heart out. Uh, and I just prayed, you know, Lord Jesus, if if you're real, if this is the real thing, if this if there's something to this, I just invite you to come into my heart. And I prayed that over and over and over again. And then, boom, like I had the kind of spiritual experience, the likes of which I had no idea a person could have. Like there was kind of classic, I know now, but uh it was like a bright light, and uh there was just this power of the Holy Spirit that was filling me to overflowing, and it felt like 10,000 pounds were coming off of my heart, and it was just it was amazing. Uh like I had no idea something like that would happen. And for the first time in my life, I knew that God was not a principle or precept, but God was a person, someone I could know, someone I could love, someone who loved me. Uh, and that was a game changer. But I didn't have a group of people or even an individual who could disciple me after that. And so uh I kind of slipped away. I mean, it was very real. Uh to this day, it's a very real experience for me. But I kind of slipped away through the rest of high school and I got to college and got into a group uh of other college students that actually discipled me and mentored me, and that's where the turn took place. Okay. So it was it was it was not really the conversion point, it was the discipleship point that turned me from kind of Christian to someone who was going to be serious about my faith.

Lightning Round And Final Takeaways

Chris Grainger 43:43

Right. Well, it definitely it sounds like you made the turn and you kept running the running your race, and this is incredible. So we always like to have a little fun at the end, Roger, with the lightning rounds. If you want to play, we'll jump right into it. Absolutely. All right. Well, what's what's a habit? You mentioned scuba diving early, but what's what's another habit that you enjoy doing for fun?

Roger Ross 44:05

Uh I'll have to admit that I enjoy golf. Uh I've I have a weakness for it. You have a weakness for it, huh? Yeah. I hear you. I hear nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong. What's your favorite food, Miss Roger? Uh my favorite food uh would have to be pizza. Uh it's also not a good thing for you, but I enjoy it. Gotta go with it. That's it. How about your all-time favorite movie? All-time favorite movie? Yeah, actually, that's that's not uh not hard for me. Raiders of Lost Heart. Wow. I always have to go way back for that, but uh, that's that's an all-time favorite.

Chris Grainger 44:43

Nothing wrong with that. So if you could have a superpower, what superpower would you have and how would you use it?

Roger Ross 44:49

Oh, wow, that's a great question. Uh, I think I would do the superpower of flying. I would love to be able to fly. I just think that's so cool. When when I see other animals that can do that, I think that's so cool. Uh and I uh and I I would just use it to get around. Uh I don't know what else I would do with it. Uh you can only fly for so long if you're a human, I guess. That's right, that's right. Well, when you think about God, Roger, what's your favorite thing about him? Grace. Oh man. The grace of God. Uh the grace of God is uh so incredible, so undeserved, so powerful, so transformative. It's grace. Now, when you think about the evil one, what's your least favorite thing about him? Least Favorite, like everything is least favorite. Um you know, he's a deceiver. Jesus says he's a deceiver. Uh and so uh the father of lies, he's always lying to you. And um and uh being able to to discern lies from the truth. I mean, uh Paul talks about how uh how uh Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Right. Uh and um so often uh I've been deceived by that angel of light who wasn't an angel at all, it was a dark angel really. Uh and um that's maddening to me, uh the the deception, the lies. Yes, 100%.

Chris Grainger 46:24

Roger, what do you hope the listeners remember the most from our conversation today?

Roger Ross 46:30

I hope that they'll uh remember that um there's more. There's more to their life, there's more to their life in Christ, uh, there's more to what it means to be a deeply devoted disciple than what they're experiencing right now. Uh and uh that's something that God wants to give them.

Chris Grainger 46:47

Right. Well, this has been an honor. Where do you want to send the guys that are interested to connect with you, to get a copy of the book and all your resources?

Roger Ross 46:57

Yeah, so to get a copy of the book, you can get it wherever books are sold, Amazon, uh Barnes and Noble, Walmart, uh wherever you like to go. Uh but uh if you want to connect with me, uh feel free to uh you can go to my website uh at um the humilitygroup.org. Uh that's my coaching organization. Um I also you can uh if you want to, you can go there and uh sign up for my weekly uh blog. I have a free blog that comes out usually on Fridays uh and would love to connect. That is great.

Chris Grainger 47:30

Thank you so much, Roger, for that. Anything else you'd like to share today?

Roger Ross 47:34

It's just been a privilege to be with you, Chris. I I thank you for allowing me to come on the lion within us uh and um I pray God's blessings uh on this podcast. Yes, sir. Thank you so much. I hope you have a wonderful day.

Question Of The Week And Next Steps

Health Stronghold Support Group Message

Chris Grainger 47:48

Thank you, you too. All right, guys. I told you that was gonna be a good one. I'm so thankful for Roger again for coming on. The question of the week this week is what past failure are you still allowing to define you? So I don't know what that failure is. I just know one thing. It doesn't get to define who you are. And if you need help with that, if you need encouragement with that, go listen to the spiritual kickoff or just join the line within us so we can start speaking this truth to you just to be that constant reminder that you need day in and day out that you are not defined by whatever that thing is. And I again don't know what that thing is. We just got to stop giving it power in our life, okay? All right, guys. So look, thank you, thankful again for Roger. Come on Friday. We know you know on our Friday episodes, we love to share our member spotlight. So these are guys that are in the lion within us. So we would love for you to just take some time, just to hear their story, hear their testimony. It's a great way for us. For one, these guys are all awesome. Like it's just incredible guys. We want to share that with you, okay? So head over, you know, you'll see it come out on Friday. But the LionWithin.us, you'll find a link to the podcast. You can find the YouTube channel as well. Head over to the Bible app. You know, open the Bible app up. We've been blessed by God with so many people who are just being encouraged by the things that we're putting out on the Bible app on a on a regular basis. So you can open up the Bible app, you can follow the Lion Within Us, just search for that page, follow us there, all our I'm just the God stuff, all the Bible plans, 50, 60 plus plans that we have out there at this point now. God's just been blessing it. We've been leaning in, been doing the work, and he has absolutely been doing an incredible thing. So we want to we'd love for you to connect with you there. And again, the lionwithin.us is our website. If you're listening to this when it comes out, you still have time. We have our live event. It's almost in a few weeks from now, but we have our live event. Okay, so that's uh the Reclaiming the Wild Men's Retreat. Love to have you guys at that retreat, guys, talking about just barbecue and fellowship and firearms. I mean, just lots of fun stuff, fellas. So look, it happens in North Carolina. We'd love to have you come here and hang out with us. So the lionwithin.us slash events is where you get connected with that. All right, other than that, guys, give us a rating and review. That'd be wonderful if you would do that for us. And then the share lion. That's the biggest thing you can do. Just share what you have found at the Lion Within Us to someone else. Okay, just share with someone else. Send them a text message, just drop this podcast in and share it over. That's a great, a great way to spread what we're doing and get this in the hands of so many more guys. Okay. All right, fellas. Have a great day. Get after. We'll see you on our on our next episode. And just remember to keep unleashing the lion within. It's time to stop neglecting the body that God gave you. And we're done making excuses and watching discipline slip. So we decided it's time to rebuild strength the right way. And we have our Health Stronghold Support Group, which is a dedicated space inside the Lion's Den, specifically for men who are ready to steward their bodies with discipline and purpose. Look, this is not just for guys trying to lose weight. Let's just clear that up. This is for guys who know that energy affects you how you lead. Your habits affect how you lead your family, and discipline affects your calling. And most guys don't need another workout plan or some extreme diet ideas. They need a stronghold. They need to have a place where they can hear other men say that I fall into. I want consistency, not shortcuts. So inside our health stronghold, you're going to find real conversations around physical health and discipline, honest discussions about habits, setbacks, and progress, and encouragement for men pursuing strength. This comes with a monthly call with one of our trusted guides as well. So look, it's not about vanity, it's about stewardship. It's a place to train without shame and pursue strength without comparison. You don't have to impress anybody. You don't have to have it all figured out. You just got to show up. So the health stronghold is found inside the lion's den. And you can start a 30-day free trial today. So if you're ready to stop drifting, head over to thelionwithin.us. That's thhelionwithin.us. And hop inside the lion's den. Start your 30 day free trial and get started today at thelionwithin.us.