Opening And Verse Of The Week

Chris Grainger 1:43

Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, meet episode time. Let's get into it. Okay. So Genesis 3, verse 12 is the verse of the week. It says, the man said, The woman who you gave me to be with me, she gave me from a tree, and I ate. Love that verse, man. It's all about deflection, brother. Deflection. So anyway, fellas, watch if you want to have a better context of that verse, how to simplify and apply it to your life. In the SKO episode this week, the spiritual kickoff, I took some time to unpack that. So it should just be a one back in your podcast feed, back up one. Listen to that one. Okay. So hopefully you'll be encouraged by it. And again, if you enjoy the spiritual kickoff episodes, we do them Monday through Friday at the Lion Within Us. So go to thelionwithin.us. Start your daily spiritual kickoff. Go ahead. It's free 100%. Gives you access as well to our prayer request area of The Lion Within Us. So if you if you need prayer, if you need support, if you need encouragement, hey, we're here for you. We'd love to hear from you. Okay. All right. So this conversation is a good one, fellas. It's Nathan Clarkson. Uh, he's the author of I'm the worst. He's an award-winning actor. He's a Netflix film filmmaker. Uh, he's a best-selling author. So hopefully you guys are going to enjoy this one uh conversation with him. This is a book that he just had that came out called I'm the worst. Full disclosure, we were having a little bit of uh some technical when he would talk. Uh it was a there was a lag. It was hard to record on my end. So we didn't do the lightning round. I just was was frankly, it was just I was trying to uh to manage the conversation the best I could to give you guys something meaningful to listen to. We got it right now. You'll hear you won't it you won't hear anything on your end. Hopefully, that's gonna impact your experience. But uh that's why we don't have a lightning round on this conversation. He's a great guy. Uh he's out of New York. He also uh he's back and forth between LA as well. But uh hopefully you're gonna enjoy this conversation with my friend Nathan Clarkson. Nathan, welcome to the line within us. How's it going today? It's going good. Thank you for having me. Oh, I'm I'm excited to have you here for sure. And before we dive into too much of the meat of the conversation, share something fun about you that maybe not many people know about, Nathan. That's a good question.

Nathan Clarkson 3:59

What do I what do I want to share that I uh that I'm okay with everyone knowing? I'm kidding. Um something that people not might not know about me. I, when I was a young man, uh, before I was a filmmaker or an actor, um, my dream in life was to become a magician. And so something not a lot of people know about me was that I'm actually pretty good at uh both close-up magic and stage magic. And in fact, I can juggle knives and torches. So that is a that is a something that's a fun fact about me that not many people know, but it is true. I wanted to be a magician, and I'm still pretty good.

Why “I’m The Worst” Matters

Chris Grainger 4:33

There you go, man. That's great. You have to show us a trick sometime. I'd be happy to. That's great. That's great. Well, let's let's kind of get into it. Uh you I've definitely got a copy of your book here. I'm the worst, you know, and you when you open the book, you say that you're the worst, and that's okay. You're the worst too. I love a statement like that that uh just kind of hooks us from the beginning. So what what what led you to a project like this?

Nathan Clarkson 4:58

Yeah, this was uh a project that was many years in the making. It was in the making before I knew I wanted to write it. Um, you know, I spent a lot of my life vacillating from two extremes. Um, and one of them being, you know, I'm kind of uh I have an image of what many people think was a you know what is supposed to be a good person. I was I'm the son of um a Christian best-selling author and a pastor. Um I went to church. I uh uh post uh uh I write about this and there. I post verses upon my Instagram profile. I study theology, I have a podcast where I talk about faith, I make Christian movies. Um, you know, for all intents and purposes, I'm what um the image of a quote unquote good guy is, a good person. And yet I've been acutely aware for most of my life uh that right beneath the surface of that veneer um lies a lot of fractures and failures and fears and doubts, um, mistakes, uh, and just all around darkness and messiness that's kind of right beneath that veneer. And, you know, part of me wanted to convince the world that I was good, but part of me wanted to convince myself that I was good and didn't have all that kind of messiness that was hiding right beneath the surface. And I found um that I would work for a while. I could I could pretend that I didn't have that brokenness down there, that mess. Um and it worked for a while, but the longer I did that, the more those fractures grew, the more um that sickness got worse. Um, until eventually, and there's been multiple moments in my life where I've had to become uh kind of face to face with the reality of myself, my darkness, my my flaws, my um shortcomings. And that was something I had run from um for a long time. And I employed a lot of different tactics, and I've talked about that in the book, uh, and ways to avoid that. Um, because underneath there is a fear that if I did, if I came in contact with the the darker parts of myself, that um there are a few terrible things that happened. One, that I might not be loved, that I would find out that I'm not worthy of love or relationship. Or maybe I'm not worthy of telling a good story with my life. And that's something I wanted to do. Um yeah, there's a real fear there. But I think the fear ultimately, if you're gonna sum it up, was that if I faced those dark and broken parts, it would be a wall that would stop me, that would kind of overtake me and um uh ultimately uh overcome uh me and my story and my desires and my and my need to be loved. What I found was it wasn't a wall, it was a bridge. And it wasn't the end of my story, it was the beginning of my story. That when I actually uh confronted and looked at my mess and admitted, quote unquote, I'm the worst, just like Paul did, that actually God, that's where God met me. And that's when he kind of began to work on redemption of my life. That was the beginning of my story, not the end.

Chris Grainger 7:51

So was this like this this this moment? Was this a season of life? Like how old were you when all this started kind of coming to the to the surface and you knew you need to be?

Nathan Clarkson 8:00

Yeah, you know, it's been a it's been a series of moments because I'm not good at learning lessons. Um, you know, I I try to get better, but it's been something that's been somewhat cyclical in my life. And I get a little better every time, get more wisdom every time. Um, but it's something that I have found myself over and over again having to do is keep on coming back and oh shoot, I'm doing it again. I'm trying to convince myself and others I'm the best. I need to go back to it, acknowledging and and reckoning with and dealing with all this mess. And so, but you know, I'd say the first time that I really kind of had one of those moments was probably as a young teen. And I kind of talked about that in the book. I talk about some of the very first times that I realized that I wasn't a good person. And I'm not saying I wasn't a valuable person, I wasn't an image of God, um, there wasn't goodness in me, but I am saying I realized I wasn't quote unquote that image of what I wanted to believe about myself. I wanted other people to believe about me that I wasn't good. And that was a difficult, difficult um series of moments, but particularly that that first one was that was pretty rough as a kid, you know, in his in his teen years, really, oh wow, I am not as good as I thought I was. There's a great song that I grew up on. It's called We Are Not as Strong as We Think We Are by Gun and Rich Mullins. Um, and that song has spoken to me throughout my life as you know, we keep on believing we're strong and good, but over and over again, um, we have to come to face and realize we are not as strong as we think we are. That's a scary thing, but it's uh it's a good thing when we end up there because God meets us there.

Chris Grainger 9:30

100%. 100%. I I'm I'm super curious from your take on this as well, because I know so many guys. Actually, we agree that we're sinners in need of a savior. Like we go, we get it, Romans 3.23. But emotionally we still operate like we're just good guys, man. I'm just a good old boy. What why do you think that gap is so hard and can be so stubborn for so many guys?

Facing Flaws Without Losing Hope

Nathan Clarkson 9:48

Man, I think one of the things that uh means the most, and that and so many guys, uh including myself, are reaching for and striving for is um we want to be capable. We want to um be strong, we want to be enough. And when we get even a hint of we might not be, we might need help. Um we might have shortcomings or places um that that we are weak in. That's you know, there's all sorts of cocktail of emotions that goes through, but you know, shame you can creep in and guilt and that feeling like we're not enough, that we're not um deserving of goodness. You know, I that I've uh I remember a friend told me I don't feel like I deserve goodness when he was chasing some some darker parts of himself. And I think that's what a lot of guys go through, including myself. I think we feel like, and if I have to look at that, I have to look at my best, and I'm worried I'm gonna that vision of me, the people around me, are gonna see me and they're gonna say, he's not enough. He doesn't deserve goodness, he doesn't deserve love, he's he's lacking, and we have those emotions of shame and guilt and frustration that come in. So I think that's why a lot of us guys uh it so resist having to face that stuff. We want to be strong, and it's hard to admit we're not.

Chris Grainger 11:03

What's the step for to to facing it or steps to you know walking in that honest and that trueness?

Nathan Clarkson 11:09

Yeah, I think one of the things I'd say is you can run from it, but it's gonna get you one way or the other. So it's better to do it in a place in a context of um love and support and accountability um and wisdom. Um, you know, they talk about in in uh groups that deal with addiction about hitting your rock bottom, you know, what's your rock bottom? And the reality is we can only pretend to be strong for so long before we're gonna end up having to face that darkness. Like I we like to talk about. In a couple of the stories in my book, I talk about where I where I didn't face it and end up, it came and found me, you know. But I think there's a few ways that I've found that even though it's really difficult in my own life, my own story that have been really helpful for me. One is when you put yourself in a context and a community of other guys who are practicing this, who are doing this, all of a sudden it's not so scary. You know, you're sitting, you're sitting around with other people who care for you, who who have maybe shown a history or or a um uh a pattern of unconditional love and presence in your life. And all of a sudden, when you watch them base their own darkness and you're in a you're in a context of that's happening, all of a sudden it's not quite so scary to do that. Another thing is, and this is something I think a lot of guys actually know the know the reality of, you know, any guy who's tried to uh get stronger or learn a skill or anything knows that um continuancy matters, that uh making something a practice in your life matters. You know, there's in more liturgical kind of historical church settings, there's a thing called the Meopulpa where every week um there's the church gets confesses together. And you know, I talk about in the book where you beat your breast and you say, My fault, my fault, my most grievous fault. What's amazing about that is it's a weekly thing where you're you're having to come face to face with the ways you failed that week. And one, you're doing it in the context of other people. So there's, I'm not alone in doing this. You know, I'm not, hey, everyone, look at this guy, he messed up. We've all messed up. Um, but also there's a practice that when you practice that and implement that in your life of facing uh your darkness, if you work out that muscle and it becomes something that becomes more second nature. So yeah, placing yourself in a community in the context where other people are doing that, all of a sudden it's uh it's gonna feel a lot more um safe to do that. And then making it a practice in your life, you get better at it, you get braver at it. You know uh kind of an aspect of you just have to, you know, the water's cold, but eventually you're gonna have to jump. Uh uh, and when you do, it you find that wow, it's um there's actually healing um and wholeness uh on the other side of that jump.

Chris Grainger 13:45

So so where is the the place, the community that you're talking about? Because I when I talk to a lot of guys, you would think the natural answer is church, but church is not usually the right answer. So I mean what what what is it? Where where do they go to find these these types of conversations and engagements?

Steps Toward Honest Living

Nathan Clarkson 13:59

Man, that is the million-dollar question. It's something that I have, I I I wish I had an easy answer. Hey, man, there's this group that is perfect for everyone. Um, you know, and I wish I could say it's church. Church is um a beautiful thing that that it was, you know, set up, but it's also full of imperfect people. And unfortunately, the church doesn't always provide what we need as a part of accountability and friendship and connection. And so it's not as easy as just saying go to church. You're totally right. Um, you know, this is something I'm still trying to figure out in my own life. I have spent many years um searching for and inviting people into my life. And, you know, I have just a few close friends, and it's taken, you know, uh decades to find these close friends, not only to find them, but to forge relationships and and be faithful to those um those friendships in a way that they n now serve and and have a strength that serves me and them well. Um, it's tough. It's tough to find friends, particularly in this modern age. Um, you know, one of the places I'd say, if you, you know, if anyone out there is listening and they feel like, man, I can't find anywhere. I've tried to find friends, I've tried to go to church, I've tried groups and this doesn't work. One of the very first places I try is, I know this is funny, and this is not, you know, the end, this is just a beginning. But um, for a long time when I didn't have people in my life, when I didn't have those mentors, um, I allowed people who were wiser and stronger and smarter, more spiritual, more experienced than me to mentor me through books. And so if the very starting point is to pick up books by people who are wise and uh and to listen to podcasts like this one, um, that's an amazing starting point. And um eventually you need to move to where you know you are being known and you know other people, but inviting voices, even through books and podcasts and other things into your life that can start speaking wisdom is a perfect place to start. And then maybe, you know, step out of your comfort zone. And um what I feel like I've noticed a lot in uh people these days is that there's kind of an um an expectation that someone else will start it or do it or invite or reach out. And you know, we might have just to be the guys who reach out and say, Hey, do you want to grab a cup of coffee? Hey, um, I really liked what you had to say about this. Or I noticed you're doing some cool stuff on you know social media. You want to meet in person sometime, we might have to be, again, uh the the ones who kind of jump into that cold water um and invite relationship into our life. And it's not gonna turn out perfect every time, but you know, it is a numbers game. The more people you interact with and connect with, the more likely you're gonna find those friendships that will be of service to you and last um a lifetime and and help you. And that's something I have found. Um it took a while, but I have um over the years of choosing to reach out and choosing to try to be faithful, um, have found close friendships that have really helped me in my walk.

Chris Grainger 16:45

Oh, that's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that, Nathan. And guys, we're gonna take our first break. We'll be right back. Let's just say it out loud. Marriage is one of the greatest gifts that God can give a man. And one of the most consistent places where we can feel unsure of what we're doing. Even the strongest marriages have moments where you look at your wife and you think, you know what? I love you. I'm so committed to you. But right now, I have no idea what I should do next. And that's why we launched something new inside the line within us community. It's our very first support group. And it's for husbands. And we're calling it committed and occasionally confused. This isn't just a place for men in crisis. If you're there, hey, you're welcome. This is for any man who refuses to coast and wants to take his marriage from good to great. So inside, you'll find an active chat and a feed and honest conversations and brotherhood that says, hey, you're not alone. We've been there. Let's bring this to God and grow. And we're also doing a monthly couples night where your wife is invited because we're not letting the world set the agenda for our home. Now, if you want access to this support group, it's very simple. Go to thelionwithin.us and join the Lions Den. Okay, that's the LionWithin.us. Start your 30-day free trial of the Lions Den community, and boom, you have instant access to the committed and occasionally confused support group. We'll see you inside the den. So I I am curious, Nathan, you know, kind of getting back to your to your book here, and so many guys, I know for me as well in the past, it's easy for me to see the problem in other people. Right. And and identify that in them. And and it can even be sneaky, you know. So I'm curious, what's from your standpoint, what are some sneaky ways that this shows up for uh really guys in their Christian walk?

Nathan Clarkson 18:42

Yeah, you know, it's amazing how good us humans are at seeing the uh the mistakes and shortcomings of others while being so bad at seeing our own. And this is something that Jesus was dealing with 2,000 years ago. You know, nothing must have much has changed about humanity. We like to imagine we're all uh uh, you know, because we have iPhones that we've come so far, but humans are exactly the same, you know, and that's why he's telling this parable about uh the spec and the log, and um, because it was relevant, you know, it was relevant for him to sit there and say, hey, you are taking specs out of other people's eyes, whether it's a log in your own. And that's as relevant then as it is now. And I think it's actually even now, it's become way easier um to take the specs out of other people's eyes because we sit on our phones, our computers, and social media, and we are exposed to everyone's mistakes all day long. And what this does in us is it creates this kind of sense of, okay, well, I'm not that bad, you know. At least I'm not him, at least I'm not them. Um, I haven't fallen like that person. You know, whenever I have committed a sin in my life, one of the very first things I do, and I can track this as I think back, I can track to I start looking for other people who are worse than me and uh to make myself feel better. And I think this is a natural human thing that's been going on forever. Um, but the supernatural thing that God asks us to do. Um and I noticed that in Jesus and all basically all of his interactions and scripture, he basically always asked uh the person who is sitting in front of him to stop blaming and looking around at the other people who who might be at fault and looking inside of their own heart and experience and story um for the ways that they needed uh help and redemption. You know, we even see it in Genesis, right? What's the first thing Adam does? Hey, it's this woman, it's this woman you gave me, right? And um, it's a natural human proclivity, um, but it's it's something we have to um fight if we actually want to invite God's healing hand in us. But uh yeah, it's tough. I get it. I still, after my I still, I'm super judgy and petty, and I have to thank God that he reminds me, hey, you need some grace and forgiveness too, man. And so it's a it's a practice I'm still trying to implement and learn in my own life. Um, but it's hard, you know. For humans, it's that's just you know, we have this proclivity towards looking at others instead of looking at ourselves.

Where To Find Real Community

Chris Grainger 20:56

I'm curious too, because you you write in the book. If you are vulnerable and you and you go to the places with of honesty that most people won't go, that that that you'll stand out. But I'm curious, why do you think that honesty has become almost like just such a rare commodity these days? And I just feel like it's such for Christians, this should be just so easy for us, but it's not. It's it's like, no, I gotta bring my first, my best. Like I got to bring this fake version of me. And I can't be too honest because then that shows the kinks in the armor. And it's like, wait a minute, bro, I think you're misreading everything here. So how do you combat this? What what what advice do you offer here? Yeah, this is a tough one.

Nathan Clarkson 21:31

I think right now, and always, particularly right now, again, just with the technology and the social media and the way we live our lives, performative living feels almost like it's what most of us do now. It's been kind of like the norm that we kind of have to perform and put on a facade. And we've always been doing this. I think even now it's even more hyper um kind of uh uh uh concentrated in the way we have to go about. And I think the reason we perform, and there's a myriad of reasons, but one of them, one of the big ones is because I think underneath that performance, at least for me, of trying to look good, of trying to look like you have it all together, um of trying to look polished and smooth is because we're worried that if people saw what was beneath, um, that they wouldn't love us, they wouldn't accept us. And one of the primary needs of a human that God has kind of wired into our hearts is to be accepted, to be loved, to be in community, be in connection. And we worry that if people saw who we really were, we would not be loved, accepted, um, held, um and that's a really scary thing, or respected, whatever it might be, but the those are that's a really scary thing to face. Um, and so we opt for performing, so something that can be loved, accepted, respected, used, whatever it might be, whatever the deepest desire of our hearts is. The problem with this is when we perform, we offer that um facade, that mask. The mask and the facade are the things being loved, not us. And so we never actually get to experience true and deep love as long as we are living behind that mask and that facade. And real true freedom, like I argue in the book, is admitting our flaws and our failures and our cracks, the reality of ourselves, and then experiencing God's love in the midst of that. And so we're wow, I'm fully known with all my stuff hanging out there, I'm still fully loved. And all of a sudden, there's a freedom that happens when we take that leap.

Chris Grainger 23:29

Insight there. Thank you so much for sharing that. And and you're also you're somewhat in a in the public light, and you get a lot of people following you, and and I'm sure you're not immune to cancel culture that's out there, but. Particularly a cancel culture for the from a Christian worldview. And from a you got real accountability. So what does that look like if we want to hold people accountable, but we don't want to be cancelers and condemning, you know, how what where do you see Christians getting this wrong at, Nathan?

Nathan Clarkson 23:56

Yeah, this is a this is a great question because the you know, I think people fall on two different sides. Either we cancel no one and just let terrible behavior continue, or we are nitpicking, judging cancelers who just cancel everyone. And I think, you know, um uh humans are bad at finding the middle ground and finding the way, and luckily God is good at that. Um, we tend towards extremes. Um, you know, and the extreme that we've seen for a while is kind of this uh uh mob mentality, cancel uh total um uh total just kind of how do I say it, reputation killing of a person. And I think that's something that the world has offered in response to bad behavior, right? Because we see a bad behavior, a toxic thing or a terrible thing happen, we go, something needs to happen. And the world says what you do is you just throw rocks until it's dead. Um and not I'm not talking physically, I'm talking, you know, uh kind of reputationally. Um, but I think that when we look at scripture, one, we come uh we can't come away without the realization that we more or less all deserve to be canceled, whether it's for our actions or for our thoughts, we are all sinful. We all have fallen short of the glory of God. And that's a real humbling thing. And so that makes us um check ourselves before we start throwing stones. But number two, like I said, absolutely we need to hold people accountable for bad behavior and for that hurts people. The difference between the way the world does it and the way that um God does it is you hold people people accountable because you desire to bring them to restoration and redemption. And so much of the cancel culture that we've seen in the past years was just a cancel them and now they're done. And there was no chance or opportunity for redemption, for um forgiveness, for restoration. And I think that's an uncomfortable but true and beautiful thing about Christianity is we have to go through that process with both ourselves and anyone who has um destructive behavior, which is um you have God is always offering us, um, if we acknowledge our destructive behavior and show remorse and ask forgiveness, um, that there is a way forward towards redemption and restoration. And I think that is the way of Jesus. And it's um difficult for people, um, you know, because we have vengeance in our hearts, we have anger in our hearts. And what it is the way of Jesus is to when you when someone, either uh us or someone else, acknowledges, asks for forgiveness, shows true remorse and true change, that and true desire to change that God is willing to restore and redeem. And that's kind of um difficult news for a lot of people, but it should be good news for all of us because that means when we are um eligible to be canceled, like we all are, every single one of us, that there is a way forward um for it that will offer us redemption and restoration. Amen to that. Amen.

Chris Grainger 26:39

And I and I love also in your book how you you you you put tribes, you define tribes, and then you also define community. And there's a stark difference between the two. I never thought of it that way. But do you mind just kind of explaining that a little bit? Because I think that mindset that for me that was a helpful reframe. And I really appreciate that that you took the time to to unpack that. But I think it'd be helpful for our listeners.

Sneaky Self-Righteousness Online

Nathan Clarkson 27:02

Absolutely. You know, I was looking at um kind of just some anthropological um articles and and realities throughout history of how humans end up coalescing together, what brings humans together, uh, and kind of research for this this book, in particular this chapter. What I noticed that most um sociologists and anthropologists and historians talk about who look at the patterns throughout history, is that humans gather together basically for two different reasons. And one is a tribal reason. One, and this is what I kind of define in the book, the the tribal um uh response and connection of humans is a response to a perceived threat, right? Something's gonna hurt me, something's going to uh come and attack me. So I need to coalesce with other people. And that's a tribal response. It's the it's a defensive response of people getting together. Um and it's one that is, and it's so there are communities where they're there are people that are formed out of fear, right? Um, and so there's a defense, oh no, we're gonna be hard enough when we get together. And that's those that those groups are formed out of fear, and I think that is very human and very natural. Um, we have a lot of fear, but you know, one of the things that God says is fear not, and that we can't live in fear and ultimately um living defensively towards the world and living um out of fear is going to be ultimately detrimental um to our psyches, our souls, and our hearts. And the other way that humans get together, humans group together, um is what I call the communal way, which is um a community is marked by a shared love, a shared worship. And we see this in things like Comic Con, right? You know, all of us love superheroes or whatever it might be. Um but there's but rather than facing out in fear, a community faces in in celebration and worship. And that's what the church was created to be. Um that we we come together and we celebrate, we love and we worship something together, and that is what creates the bond. And so I think that when we're uh interacting with and engaging with and thinking about what groups we want to be a part of, one of the questions that might be really important for us to ask is is this a group that is um gathering around a shared love, a shared beautiful thing, a shared celebration? Or is this a group that is gathering around a shared fear and is is defensive towards um and and is based around uh you know being scared of something rather than loving something than celebrating something? Um I don't know about you, but I'd rather be a part of a group that um that the heart of it is celebrating, loving and worshiping something. That to me brings so much more life to my heart and soul.

Vulnerability Versus Performance

Chris Grainger 29:34

100%. 100%. Well, thank you for unthanking that. Thank you. Phenomenal job. One of the best parts of the book, but that that I enjoyed for sure was that that definitely differentiation between those two. So hats off to you there. And guys, we're gonna take our last break. We'll be right back with continuing our conversation with Nathan. If you're tired of going at it alone, we understand every man needs wise counsel, but finding it can be quite the challenge. That's why we build our leadership masterminds. This isn't just more content, guys. It's real discipleship with a consistent rhythm. Small cohorts of no more than seven guys, honest hot seat sessions, and biblical counsel that turns good attention into active. You'll get accountability, clarity, and a circle of brothers who would challenge you and carry you on. We open up new options regularly so there's room to find the right fit. It's not always easy, but it is worth it. The first step is simple. Take the leadership mastermind assessment. No pressure, no hype, just thoughtful questions to help you see where you are, where God is leading you, and whether this is a good option for your next step. Hey, if it's a fit, we're gonna follow up with details. And if it's not, we'll point you to resources to help you keep growing. Either way, you move forward. So if you're ready to take the assessment, head over to thelionwithin.us slash mastermind. So that's thelionwithin.us slash mastermind to get moving today. So I am curious, Nathan, your take on this. Because when you hear, you know, we all fall short of glory to God, we're we're sinners in need of a savior, you know, some guys can translate that that we're not good. You know, I'm just not a good person. And that can be if you if it hits on the wrong ears and with the wrong heart, it it can be depressing to hear that. So how do you suggest we communicate that truth in a way that it doesn't leave people in despair, but in instead it puts it points them towards hope. So any any any thoughts there?

Nathan Clarkson 31:48

Yeah. I think of the Damascus Road. Um, I think of Saul coming in contact and and and uh being confronted with really, really difficult. I mean, he's it you know talks about in Jesus' faces and they're like, Why are you persecuting me? He shows him he's murdering and killing uh people and he's having to come face to face with this the terrible things that he've done. And I think that when we are kind of facing our own Damascus roads, admitting we're the worst, right? There's this fear, and I and I've had people talking about this book, and there's kind of a fear of the title that if I do that, then I'm just gonna hate myself and end up in self-hatred and shame. And that's not what I want. That's not what God wants. Um, we acknowledge our our our our shortcomings and failures, and that's not where we stay. Meeting where the worst is not the end of the story, it's the beginning. You know, we again going back to going back to Saul, um, what did God do? When he faced his worst, God then picked him up and basically began his story as one of the most influential um writers of scripture and founders of the church um changed the world. So when we're like like Saul, who ended up becoming Paul, when we actually face our um stuff, it's not for the sake of just staying there and wallowing in shame and and self-flagellating and hating ourselves. No, we face it so that we can actually begin our story. This past year, um, the past uh four or five months, this I I went through this um time where for the first time in my life I experienced some pretty, really serious health stuff. And there was um stuff I'd been running away from for a long time and kind of ignoring, and it caught up to me in really, really big and major ways. And I had always been someone who didn't like going to doctors. Um, I didn't want to be poked and prodded. You know, that was something I just kind of avoided for a long time. But because I did, I ended up having to uh having these kind of major health issues come on. And then all of a sudden through this fall, I was at the doctor like every week for months. And I found that I started loving it. And I found that for the first time in my life, I actually wanted to go to the doctor because I started associating the doctor with the place that I was going to become well. It wasn't the end of my story. It wasn't the, it was actually the place where I went and it would be uncomfortable, it'd be painful. I had things shoved down my throat and things shoved in my head and all sorts of uncomfortable stuff. But all of that was for the purpose of actually healing me and bringing me restoration. And I think the same is true in our lives. We can run away from the sickness that's uh in our hearts, the brokenness that's in our souls. Um, but when we actually go to the doctor, um, he's actually, it's not where we, it's not an ending place, it's actually beginning of healing. And so when I I hear guys, I worry about, well, what if I meant I'm the worst and I'll have to face all this shame and and and stuff and it'll be game over, right? No, that that is where you get the game begins. When you can actually finally deal with your stuff, that's when we get to begin a new story, begin to expand redemption, begin to expand restoration and healing. So admitting you're the worst isn't the end.

Chris Grainger 34:55

So how about the guy out there who's listening, Nathan, and they're they're maybe they're exhausted, but they're trying to be to to to to perform, right? They're trying to to do the best they can to be the guy. Do you have any simple advice on moving forward a type of to the type of freedom that you're talking about here? Because I think that is so important because it can just it can wear out guys these days, that's for sure.

Accountability Without Cancellation

Nathan Clarkson 35:16

Yeah. Well, first, I'd say you're not alone. I still fight performance every day. I still find myself slipping back into it and trying to craft what other people and myself will think about myself. So I get it. I I get that proclivity. Don't beat yourself up for that. You're in the you're in a boat with a lot of a lot of us. Um, but it's exhausting, as you said. It's tiring. And it's um it's not a way to spend your life is performing and pretending. Um, a way to live your life is in true freedom and true um love and acceptance. And the way the ways we do that, it's easier to said than done. I don't pretend like it's just like this one, two, three thing. Um, but the ways I have found in my life um that have kind of begun that and opened that door to me experiencing more and more of that um honesty and authenticity where I don't have to reform is be in the word. I know that sounds so simple and so cliche, but the more you're in scripture, the more you're gonna realize how much God loves you. And the more you realize God loves you, the more confident you can walk around the world and be honest with yourself because you have that knowledge of the unshakable and love no matter what. And so the more you can be in scripture and understand God's love for you, um, the more you can actually um confidently reckon with the stuff um that used to be scary too and actually face it. Um the other way we talked a little bit about it earlier is surround yourself with um good people if you can. Um uh show you longevity and presence in your life, uh, who are willing to walk that road with you and who you can watch, you know, uh people around you, you can watch their facing their own dark stuff. So it's not as scary when you do. And you can kind of rest on that confidence of, hey, they're doing it, and and um I can do it too. Um and if you can't do that, at the very least, um continue to listen to podcasts like this, read books by wise people who can speak into your heart, who can put different voices into your head. Um, so those are just a few ways that I really encourage people that do who are looking to walk in authenticity and and kind of put down that performance facade. Um, those are a few ways that that have really helped me do that in my life.

Chris Grainger 37:19

Thank you so much for sharing that, Nathan. And and highly enjoyed this one, guys. Definitely encourage you adding this to your library. Nathan, where can they go get a copy? Where do you want to send them to?

Nathan Clarkson 37:28

Yeah, the book's called I'm the worst, and it's available anywhere. Books are sold, Amazon, Marge Noble, and at your your local bookstore, you can have it ordered in. Um yeah, and if you want to get in touch with me, go to NathanClarkson.me, check out my podcast, see overthinkers, or read my books, watch my movies. I love hearing from people. So um uh yeah, thanks so much. Well, it's been an honor today. Anything else you'd like to share, Nathan? Oh man, um just know that uh as you're if you decide to take this journey of admitting you're the worst, um, know that I'm the worst too. We're all the worst, and it's a it's a beautiful, wonderful journey, and that God's gonna meet you there, and that uh there's a story for your life on the other side of that that's uh beautiful and good and adventurous and and redemptive and restoring. So I encourage you. Uh I'm doing it, and I encourage you to join me. Amen. Amen.

Chris Grainger 38:14

Thank you so much for your time today, sir.

Nathan Clarkson 38:16

All right, thanks for having me.

Tribe Versus Community

Chris Grainger 38:19

All right, guys. Well, hopefully you enjoyed that one. So the question of the week this week is where have you stayed silent instead of leading? Okay, you know, sometimes it's easy to stay silent. Sometimes we need to step out front and lead. And I'm gonna tell you what, too often we'll we're trough, we're trapped in that, uh, we're caught in that trap rather, of not taking action when we know that we've been called to do that. So we just be careful here. Do an audit, do some reflection, think about that. And if you feel like, you know what, you've buried your head, head in the sand for too long on certain topics. Hey, there's no better time, of course, correcting right now. Okay. All right. So, guys, thank you so much for listening. Come on our fun Friday now. This is our member spotlights. That's what's coming up on Friday. Hopefully, you're gonna enjoy that one. I know you will, because our members are awesome. And we'd love for you to connect with us at the lionwithin.us. Hey, join a daily spiritual kickoff hop on the weekly roar newsletter, if anything. That's the easy way to get connected. Uh, you get some some reflections each and every week. Daily uh I mentioned a daily spiritual kickoff. Our Lions Den community is a great way to get plugged in with us as well, fellas. And then put an application for a leadership mastermind. It's not for everyone, but it could be for you. And you'll never know until you take that assessment. And that assessment, if even if you don't move forward, it gives you a lot of resources just to have some self-reflection to know how to make the uh make the most and what areas maybe you need to work on. Okay. So hopefully you guys enjoy that stuff. Again, we're doing a lot of speaking in 2026. If we can help you out for some of your men's events, or if you just want to talk about how the lion within us can come alongside and support you and your group, reach out. We're here to help, okay? All right, guys. Have a great day, great weekend, or great rest of your week, rather, as we go into. Hopefully, we'll see you on our fun Friday episode. Get after it, stay strong, and just keep on leasing the lion within. If you're tired of going at it alone, we understand every man needs wise counsel, but finding it can be quite the challenge. That's why we build our leadership masterminds. This isn't just more content, guys. It's real discipleship with a consistent rhythm, small cohorts of no more than seven guys, honest hot seat sessions, and biblical counsel that turns good intentions into active. You'll get accountability, clarity, and a circle of brothers who will challenge you and carry you on. We open up new options regularly so there's room to find the right fit. It's not always easy, but it is worth it. The first step is simple. Take the leadership maximum assessment. No pressure, no hype, just thoughtful questions to help you see where you are, where God is leading you, and whether this is a good option for your next step. Hey, if it's a fit, we'll go follow up with details. And if it's not, we'll point you to resources to help you keep growing. Either way, you move forward. So to ready to take the assessment, head over to thelionwithin.us slash mastermind. So that's the lionwithin.us slash mastermind to get moving today.