Chris Grainger: 1:43

Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, fellas, it is meet episode time. Let's get right into it, okay? So the scripture of the week this week is in a book of Lamentations. The third chapter, in two verses, though, verse 31 and 32, says, For the Lord will not reject forever. For if he causes grief, then he will have compassion according to his abundant loving kindness. Beautiful verses, guys. Go back and check out the spiritual kickoff episode where I take time to really unpack that to help you simplify and apply that to your life. So it's going to be one back in your podcast feed. And also if you enjoy the spiritual kickoff episodes each week, how about Monday through Friday? Monday through Friday within the Lion Within Us community. We do this all this is a free offering that we offer up to you guys. We also give you access to our prayer request area for the Lion Within Us. So head over to the LionWithin.us and start your daily spiritual kickoff experience today. And I'm telling you, you're going to have a lot of fun with that. We don't put that content anywhere else. So it's completely behind the wall, but we give it to you, give you access to it, and we'd love to encourage you with it, okay? All right, so this is gonna be a fun one, fellas, particularly for you guys who maybe been struggling with some challenges from a childhood, okay? Or you just grew up and things just weren't exactly the way that uh you would hope that they were. Brought in a young husband and entrepreneur, you guys probably know him. His name's Patrick Morley or Pat. Uh and he was desperate to find meaning and purpose. And uh he thought there had to be more to life than this. In 1986, he started a men's Bible study in a bar. We could probably relate with that. And now he this is something he's still teaching, fellas. And he wrote the book The Man in a Mirror. Uh, so you may have heard of that, and it was named one of the 100 most influential Christian books of the 20th century. Uh, he founded that Man in a Mirror ministry impacting thousands and thousands of men or in churches and millions of men worldwide. And this is his 23rd book, is what we talk about today. It's called From Broken Boy to Mended Man. Okay. And it's uh it's so just a beautifully written, it it unpacks a positive plan to help you heal your childhood wounds and break any cycle that is in your family. So he's uh just a fun guy, very real, very authentic. Uh he lives in Winter Park, Florida with his wife. Uh he shared some recent tragedies that they've had as a family and just uh just definitely praying for Pat. But it was just I was encouraged by it. I think you're gonna be inspired by it, and uh so hopefully enjoy this one with Pat Murray.

Patrick Morley: 4:25

Well, Pat, welcome to The Lion Within Us. How are you doing today? Chris, I am doing wonderful, and uh it's really good to be with you. I just love crawling all over your website. I love what you're doing, I applaud what you're doing, and it's an honor to be on your show today.

Chris Grainger: 4:43

Well, the honor's all mine, and we're we're definitely trying. We're connecting with a lot of guys out there. And before we dive into your topic, because this is a topic I know is going to deeply resonate, tell us something fun about you, Pat, that maybe not many people know about. You're a well-known author, you've done so many great things, but what's a fun fact that uh is not so well known?

Patrick Morley: 5:01

Well, I uh a bit of a practical joker. Uh I probably won't try anything on you today, but I love a good laugh. And um something that is really startling information, but I found out uh in May that I have a 55-year-old son that I never knew about. Really? Yeah. So I had a one-night stand when I was in the army, and the woman didn't know who the father was. And so uh through DNA testing, we got connected, long story there. But he's a beautiful guy, he's a he's a believer, has a beautiful family. And anyway, uh he said, uh, would it be all right if I called you dad? I said, Well, yes. If it'd be would it be all right if I called you son? And so two things can happen when something like that happens. You can either want a relationship or not, and then if you do want a relationship, the person can be either a jerk or a good guy, and he's a really good guy, and we both uh are building a new relationship, so that's pretty, pretty fun. Wow, wow. That's pretty wild. I think you weren't weren't expecting that, were you?

Chris Grainger: 6:13

No, no, you caught me off guard with that one. So is that like one of those uh 23andMe or or type of test that you got?

Patrick Morley: 6:21

Uh Ancestry.com, his daughter, my granddaughter, because some of these words still get stuck in my throat. I have that our granddaughter, my granddaughter, and my wife and I I said, Do you want to me to call him my son or our son? She said, Oh, my oh, our son. So my wife is all in, and it's just beautiful. And I I've worked with a lot of biologicals, uh, I've been over the years who are looking for their biologicals. And so I know the the uh angst, the inner the inner feelings that men are going through. And so the spirit just really led me, uh my wife and me both to try to give our son uh everything that uh he didn't have growing up.

Chris Grainger: 7:05

So right. Right. Wow. Well, that's an incredible, incredible story. Be praying for you and your wife. Because sometimes that can be a division with the husband and wife, too. So it sounds like you guys really came together over that. That's a blessed point. Well, she's she's an incredible woman, so Amen. Amen. Mary right, fellas. That's the lesson right there. All right, all right. So, you know, Pat, you've you've helped so many millions of guys, you know, just grow in their walk with God. But when when I got the copy, they sent me the copy of From Broken Boy to Mended Man. It felt very personal, you know, very, very personal. So what what made you decide that it was time to tell your own personal story of brokenness in in this in this format? Because it it was it was very touching.

Patrick Morley: 7:50

Well, first of all, I'm I'm glad you liked it. Um it's uh it's it it's it's not really about me, it's really about you, men who are listening. But I did use my own story as sort of the frame to hang the ideas on so that it would be more applicable or more relevant. So uh when my mother died, I my my mother died when I was 53 years of age, and I didn't feel anything, I wasn't sad, I didn't cry, I didn't miss her. I thought that was pretty strange. So I made an appointment with a counselor, and over eight sessions she helped me to finally put into words all of the father and mother wounds that I had never been able to articulate. Now, part of the problem, Chris, is that my parents were, you know, I don't know if you're listening today, you might your parents might be terrible, but my parents were really nice people. Which just made it very confusing. Because I have no recollection of ever hearing the words, I love you, I'm proud of you, we believe in you, here's some things you might want to know about the other gender, uh here's some things you might want to know about God, career or work kinds of possibilities and options, educational future, none of that. And so uh when I got to high school, I uh went off the rails. I ended up quitting high school in the middle of my senior year, and joined the army, which was good. So there are basically seven kinds of well, negative parenting styles. And we can get into that later. But my parents were two of those, they were passive and permissive. When I was you know, so I was when I was dating my wife, she said, you know, I think I think your parents gave you too much say. And it was true, and so I was all over the place. But the army was good because it provided the the structure and the discipline that I had never really had. So I'll pause there and see where you want to go next.

Chris Grainger: 10:19

No, yeah. I mean, this is this is great. I mean, I think the passive and permissive, I'd love for you to unpack that a little bit because you know, the story, I mean your parents were there. Obviously, they you you were love. I mean, you grew up in a loving home. It was just very interesting when that moment happened and she passed that the emotions weren't there, and it sounds like through that unpacking, what what what ultimately helps you guys land on an understanding of the passive and permissive piece?

Patrick Morley: 10:44

Well, you know, I'm a scholar practitioner, a practitioner primarily, but I'm very curious person. So uh what once I met with the counselor, then I spent the next decade studying this whole issue. Okay. And then one day I sensed that I was supposed to write a book. For those of you who are listening who would believe such things, I believe it was the Lord that was prompting me, but maybe it was just me having a good idea, I don't know. Uh, but I'm pretty sure it was the Lord. And so, but I couldn't figure out how to write the book without throwing my parents under the bus. And so it took six years to figure that out. And finally I was able to write a manuscript. Not my parents are both deceased, but I was able to write a manuscript that I thought I could sit down with my parents, we could read it, and and we could say, no matter how hurtful it was, yes, this is really what happened. And so um so my mom and dad and I did have a reconciliation. Interesting a lot of interesting stories. I became a follower of Jesus at the age of twenty four.

Chris Grainger: 12:07

Okay.

Patrick Morley: 12:09

And then shortly after that, I became a follower of Jesus because I could see within a matter of a few months I was going to destroy my marriage and I didn't know what to do about it. And I was just such an angry young man because uh my counselor would have would say that I'd experienced gross abandonment. Even though my mom and dad were in the home, I had experienced gross abandonment. I argued with her about that, and I'm not I'm still not sure she's right, but I do have the attributes of an abandoned person. I have a very hard time believing that you, Chris, really care about me, or ever could really care about me. Now, by the power of God, I've overcome that, but I am continuing to overcome that every day. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. So it's it's not a one-and-done deal. But when I turned 25, my mom and dad invited us to come out to Thanksgiving dinner. My brother had been off at war. The family had not been together for several years. We were sitting around the Thanksgiving table, my dad at the head of the table, and then my brother Robert, my brother Pete, my brother Bill, my mother, my new wife, and me. And uh, as I said, I'd become a follower of Jesus and I was starting to grow. We were the family growing up that would say grace, but it was always that rote quick grace. God is good, God is great, and we think it for the sweet, amen, just as fast as you could get it out of your mouth because you were hungry, you know. Yeah, that's true. That's it. And so uh, but this particular day my dad said, you know, I I would like to pray today. So we all bowed our heads, and he said, very slowly, he said, Lord, mom and I would just like to say thank you. And then he started blubbering. And he got up, he excused himself, he went into the bedroom. I went in after him. I said, Dad, Dad, what's the matter? You alright? Is everything all right? What's going on? He said, He said, No, I'm fine, I'm fine. I said, No, you're not, Dad. What's going on? Tell me what's going on. Anyway, with a little coaxing, he finally said, Well, it's just as your mother and I never thought we would ever see our four boys in the same room together again. And something just so softened in me that day, and I didn't have the words to describe what I'm about to say, but I just decided in my in my head that I would unilaterally forgive my mother and father for everything that I didn't get. And uh so my brothers didn't get it either. Uh my brother, who had been off at war, he uh he eventually died of a heroin overdose. Uh my next brother never had a job for more than six months until he was 50. And my youngest brother is a recovering alcoholic and divorced and uh a hermit, and so um so I wrote this book from Broken Boy to Med the Man because I started this journey of reconciliation at the age of 25 by unilaterally forgiving my mom and dead. And then at the age of 53 when my mom died, I described that, uh concluded the process of healing. Now, I'm not saying that I don't walk with a limp or if somebody reads my book, they're gonna be magically transformed. They will be transformed, but it won't be necessarily that they never again have any thoughts that they have to deal with. I don't want to create that kind of an illusion. But here's the point. I think that it took me 28 years from 25 to 53 to sort through how to heal my childhood wounds, how to overcome my father wound, how to overcome my mother wound, and how to think about it in a way that honors them and honors Jesus. And I think I've figured all that out. As I say, it took over a decade of thinking about it, and another six years on top of that before I could write it. So I but I really believe that I uh have done this in a in a way that can be helpful to man. So I'm just thinking that that men can probably do in about three months what took me three decades. Wow. Yeah.

Chris Grainger: 17:01

Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, so we're gonna take our first break and come back and continue with Pat. Let's just say it out loud. Marriage is one of the greatest gifts that God can give a man, and one of the most consistent places where we can feel unsure of what we're doing. Even the strongest marriages have moments where you look at your wife and you think, you know what? I love you. I'm so committed to you. But right now, I have no idea what I should do next. And that's why we launched something new inside the lion within us community. It's our very first support group, and it's for husbands. And we're calling it committed and occasionally confused. This isn't just a place for men in crisis. So if you're there, hey, you're welcome. This is for any man who refuses to coast and wants to take his marriage from good to great. So inside, you'll find an active chat and a feed and honest conversations and brotherhood that says, you're not alone. We've been there. Let's bring this to God and grow. And we're also doing a monthly couples night where your wife is invited because we're not letting the world set the agenda for our homes. Now, if you want access to this support group, it's very simple. Go to thelionwithin.us and join the Lions Den. Okay, that's thelionwithin.us. Start your 30-day free trial of the Lions Den community, and boom, you have instant access to the committed and occasionally confused support group. We'll see you inside the den. So, Pat, I'm I'm super curious. I mean, you talked about the broken abandonment, even though the your parents were there, and there's probably lots of guys that are feeling this way, and and you talk about the broken boy that's inside uh all the pretty much every man out there. I mean, I talked to a lot of guys, and I haven't met one yet that's that hasn't that's not broken in some areas. So, what what do you think are some of the primary ways that this broken boy shows up and how we as men, you know, respond and and to the world and how how we lead and how how we show up? Yeah.

Patrick Morley: 19:06

Well, uh so to preface that, uh uh, if you're listening and you're and you could say that my parents were encouraging or my parents were affirming, then you grew up with positive parenting. But what if you can't say that? Well, then there are these seven negative parenting styles, and you may be able to identify with one or more of these. Uh my parents were passive. In other words, they just were unengaged. Uh my parents were absent. That could be through death, divorce, or workaholism or whatever. Number three, my parents were permissive. They just let you have the run. There was not a structure there that helped guide you, no guardrails. And then the fourth negative parenting style is enabling. My parents were enabling, if you would say my parents were enabling. So we know what um enabling is, it's basically not holding children accountable for the things that they should do or should not do. And uh then the next parenting style is my parents were angry. I had a guy put a fence in for me here. I was describing this when the book first came out. I was describing all this to him, and he said, I said, that's my parents. My parents were angry. He said, I I feel like I grew up in Auschwitz. I had to walk around in eggshells all the time. I never knew what would set my dad off or when. And then uh the next parenting style, number six, is my parents were uh demanding, performance-oriented. You know, uh what one one guy told me, he said, you know, no matter what I did, I could never make my dad happy, no matter how good I did. And then the final is my parents were belittling. So these are parents that uh put their children down and often in public, maybe making fun of their body parts, which they have no control over, like you know, oh you have such fat ankles, you know, or whatever it is. Uh you know and uh and so those are the negative parenting styles. So how that All transforms Chris into behavior later is uh and I have these nine characteristics that I talk about of Broken Boys. You know, the alcoholics have their list and the uh adult children of alcoholics have their list. I just thought we ought to have our own list. So we broken boys, the fraternal order of broken boys, we have our own list. We got nine different things on it. And uh the the first one I've already mentioned, I just have a hard time believing that people really care about me. I just don't I wonder how many of the men listening to us today feel that way. You know, I just have a hard time believing people really care about me.

Chris Grainger: 22:25

Yeah.

Patrick Morley: 22:26

That's pretty common.

Chris Grainger: 22:27

Yeah.

Patrick Morley: 22:28

Yeah. Yep. Uh and another one is, you know, I'm I'm easily angered. So a lot of men who have unresolved childhood wounds, and again, the reason I wrote the book is to help resolve these childhood wounds, but to the extent that they're not resolved, uh it produces anger. So a lot of men have this kind of disconnected anger. They're kind of a have a vault, they're sitting on a volcano of anger, and uh little things will trigger them, they'll erupt. They don't know, they don't even know why. They hate it, and they hate it.

Chris Grainger: 23:07

Yeah. I I wrote a study. I'm just a guy who's angry, and that has gotten more downloads. How about I mean, uh, because it's just something it's almost it's almost well, God gives all that stuff, but it's we don't get very good instruction at times around righteous anger. And we see Jesus was angry a couple times, but you know, it's for guys most of the time in a in a faith church setting, you're told to calm down, behave, control, and and I get all those things, but there are times where anger, righteous anger, is good is very good. So it's just I think we guys need to hear that more and understand the difference between the two. Yeah.

Patrick Morley: 23:48

I think intuitively most of us do understand the difference between the two. Uh, but that doesn't mean we have control over it. And so what I wanted to do is I wanted to give men some tools to process. So the arc of this book is very simple. It's three parts. Part one is unraveling what happened to you. Now, I spend a lot of time on the problem. And the reason I do that is if you're trying to solve men, listen, if you're trying to solve the wrong problem, you can only succeed by accident. And so this is uh there's a lot of complexity here, and uh we break that down and put it in categories so you can understand it and digest it. That's important. Um I'm a I'm a solutions author, but we do have to understand what's going on. So part one is unraveling what happened to you, and then the second part is healing your childhood wounds, and that is a centuries-old biblical process that nothing new under the sun, and there's certainly nothing new about what I describe in there, but it's biblical, so a lot of counseling methodology is biblically based, and then if some of it begins to drift, and some of it's just downright unworkable. Sure. So it's been my experience that a lot of times people will uh interpret their Bible based on their experience instead of interpreting their experience based on their Bible. So in the second part, I use the Bible to help us understand what happened, not what happened to us to help us understand the Bible. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And so there's this process of you Well, it's just a biblical process, you know, getting out of denial and taking facing the truth, forgiveness is a big part of it. And then there's a a section in there to talk about how to be reconciled with your uh parents and other family members too, for that matter. And then the third part of the books is breaking the cycle for the next generation, for yourself and for the next generation, your wife, family, if you have one, your friends and other men. Right. Right.

Chris Grainger: 26:30

Well, I mean, for guys that are starting and they're thinking through this right now, you know, is it is there anybody, is there or any guidance you would offer, rather, when he's trying to identify a father womb or a mother womb and how that may be influencing him and his relationship with others? I mean, is it usually I mean, how's how how do they even get started down this journey of understanding?

Patrick Morley: 26:53

Well, it is not something that is handled by calling me up on the phone and me giving you three quick, easy steps to fix everything and hang up and you do that, and two weeks later everything's gonna be all right. You got into the sit whatever situation you got into, the only solution is to disciple your way out. Yeah, and so uh listen very carefully, man, to this, very carefully to this. It doesn't make any difference how much you love God or want to love God. It's hard to move forward if you're stuck in the past. So we uh in the church, and I include myself as part of this, and and I've spent most of my career helping men become followers of Jesus and then disciple them forward. This is this is how to move forward. But I have not spent much time in the past, and I don't know almost anybody who spent time discipling men backward. And so we need to we need to do that as well. So I wanted to write this book to help guys and the their leaders and their pastors uh disciple them backwards so they can get them unstuck. You know, most of us spend our entire lives trying to go around our pain, and the only way that we can heal is to go through the pain, through the pain. That's very good.

Chris Grainger: 28:35

So I mean, guys out there, we have we talk about our lines then that's lying within us a lot. You gotta have that local group group of guys, the guys that you can you know confide, confess, they're gonna be there for you. Is this something that can be done with a group like that, or is this more is this more of a one-on-one setting where you find a to be able to process this?

Patrick Morley: 28:56

Well, I think it's best done in a small group. Okay. So uh that's why I put questions at the end of each chapter. I do that in all my books. And there's a discussion leader's guide in there. You don't have to be uh a master's and counseling or have a psychology degree to do it. Just you need to have a little emotional intelligence and be willing to ask the questions in the book and then actually listen while men get a chance to process their their thoughts and show some empathy to them. It's very, it's a very so but that said, I had one of one leader tell me that in his group, the men who would read the chapter and think about it before they came, their lives were being transformed. Okay, but the guys who didn't read the chapter and just showed up, their lives were not changing, and they couldn't understand why. So it's it's not just being in a group, it's also actually putting doing the work. Yeah, putting in the work. Yeah.

Chris Grainger: 30:05

And that's the hard part of times, too. I mean, it's putting in the work. Sometimes, guys, we make all the excuses in the world, but stuff like this. I mean, you've literally laid out a blueprint uh for how to how to work through this, but you know, that that also means you're gonna have to go through a lot of pain. And I think that's we're just naturally wired to want to avoid that.

Patrick Morley: 30:23

Yeah. Well, you know, it's pay me now, pay me later. So uh, you know, men, if you're listening and you're you can you can just project out 10 years. What what's your relationship going to be like with your your wife or your girlfriend if you have one and end up getting married? And and you continue to interact the same way you are now? And what's gonna become of your children ten years from now, five years from now, if you continue on the same path. So um I just think it makes sense. I I I wish I would have known in my twenties what I what I know now, um, I would have done things a lot differently. Now, as it turns out, I did do a lot of things things a lot differently because I'm a cycle breaker. But for those men, and I'm I'm sure that every man listening today who has this as an issue would like to be that cycle breaker. And some of you probably already are. You're probably strong, resilient, determined people, and you're making it happen. Would it be great to understand what's going on behind the curtain? That's the book. That's the book. And then there are men listening today who would love to break the cycle, but they keep, they find themselves, they can continually find themselves being dragged back down by these destructive behaviors. So that's one of the characteristics of Broken Boys is that we're just oversensitive and uh we overreact to things, and then the destructive behaviors come out, and even though we've repented a hundred times or a thousand times, or even a thousand thousand times, right? We still keep repeating the same old destructive behaviors because we haven't dealt with the core issues.

Chris Grainger: 32:34

Hmm. One of the as you're work I wrote the list as you're working through it as well. The one that I've I'm um I was at a com conference recently, and the guy speaking was talking about his dad left. So obviously he he fell into the absent category. And I I've met and I've I found it super interesting, Pat, that at this conference he asked the guys to raise their hands if they're you know if their dad they had an absent dad. And it was a shockingly high number of guys who are walking through that. And then but I'm just curious for guys that have walked through that, because you talked about forgiveness and and starting that path, that, that path forward. If their parent never apologized or they never had a chance to apologize, how do you counsel or coach that guy and encourage that guy to begin that that process of forgiveness in a situation where he he can't have that conversation one on one? It seems to be challenging.

Patrick Morley: 33:31

All right, got you covered. So uh I think I've thought of pretty much every possible reaction. So there is a section in rebuilding relationships and restoring relationships where possible. So you may have willing, unwilling, or impossible because of death or distance or whatever. Right. And so if you have some willing parents, and here's here's my primary experience in working with men is that in most cases, when and I I will equip you on how to talk to your parents. I actually give you literal scripts that you can either adopt or adapt, but literally give you scripts on how to talk to your parents. If and here's what most men discover is that their parents have longed for this discussion, but they didn't know how to make it happen. They were ill-equipped. That's the reason they were dysfunctional in the first place, is because they didn't have the training themselves. And so they're relieved and they welcome these conversations. Then for the man who gets a negative reaction, again, I have scripts, literally have scripts and steps to take, things to say, for parents who are at for whatever reason at this time not willing to uh be reconciled. And I do show the men how they can nevertheless unilaterally forgive their parents because that is the Jesus standard, unilateral forgiveness. Uh Father, forgive us of our sins as we forgive those who sinned against us. If they will come and plug and beg and plead with us for our forgiveness, then we forgive them. He doesn't say that. It's unilateral forgiveness. That's right. And the and the genius of Jesus here is that unilateral forgiveness not only releases the person forgiven, it releases the person who's doing the forgiving. Amen. Yeah. And so, well, I'll I'll pause there and just see where we are in the conversation.

Chris Grainger: 35:49

No, I think this is a great, great place, guys. We're gonna take a quick break because I want to come back and keep digging in with Pat. If there's one habit that can change a home, it's this when a husband prays with his wife, not because it's a magic formula, but because it recenters your marriage under God's authority and care. And let's be honest, a lot of guys want to do it, but most don't know how to start without it feeling awkward. Maybe you tried it before and it felt forced, or maybe you've never tried it because you don't even know what to say. Or maybe you're thinking, man, I'm not a pastor, I'm just a guy. And that's why we created this guide. It's our how to pray with your wife. Simple guide. It's biblical, it's practical, and it's designed to help you start praying with your wife in a way that actually feels natural. So it's a five-section guide and it gives you a simple framework to get started. Okay, it makes sure everything is grounded in scripture, and it also has a powerful PDF that you can pull up whenever you need, especially when things get off, because they're gonna get off. That's normal. So this is all about reclaiming your marriage and reclaiming the spiritual leadership reigns of your home. Because praying with your wife is one of the strongest ways to fight for unity, to build trust, and to write the ship when life starts to pull you off a course. So if you're ready, get access today at thelionwithin.us slash guides. That's the lionwithin.usguides, and start unleashing the lion within at home by leading your marriage through prayer. So, Pat, I am super curious reading through the book. Obviously, I can I could tell you put so much you mentioned the time and and and effort into putting a resource like this out there. What surprised you the most about going through this research that you found the most surprising? I just I'm always curious as if with authors who spend this much time digging and and researching and and and going to all these different resources. So what any surprises for you?

Patrick Morley: 38:02

Well, not really, because I have been living it for so long. Uh the real big surprises came during the eight counseling sessions when all the all the epiphanies were happening, all the bells were going off, all the whistles. And when I was writing the book, though, I suppose one interesting thing was I was surprised at how much I re was reliving the different experiences. And many of those experiences were redemptive. For example, in my uh so when I left home, I washed my hands. I didn't want anything to do with my parents. If it wasn't for my wife, I probably wouldn't have had any contact at all. Then in my early 30s, I had uh we started having children. We had two young children. And I don't know what happened, but I started longing for a relationship with my dad. So I invited him, I said, Dad, uh, you wouldn't be willing to go out to lunch with me on your birthday, would you? And uh to my surprise, he he he jumped at that opportunity, he said yes. And we had a great time. So much so that we decided to turn that into an annual tradition. When I was 35 years of age, we finished dinner, lunch, we were walking out to the cars. I was going to my car, he's going to his truck, he was a working man. And we, by coincidence, were parked next to each other. And as we were getting ready to park ways, I said, Dad, could I give you a hug? And uh, Chris, before the words were completely out of my mouth, my dad was charging me like a grizzly bear. Yeah. He threw his arms around me and let out this deep primordial groan that must have lasted for 20 seconds. He squeezed me so tight, he squeezed the breath out of me. And when uh he was done, we drew back from each other, our hands were on each other's shoulders. And again, I don't know what got into me, but I said to him, I said, Dad, I love you. And he said, Son, I love you too. And that was the first time that I could ever remember hearing the words, I love you. You are 35. 35. Wow. Now the most amazing thing happened after that. We never spoke of it. But our family, supernaturally, is the only thing I can think of, became a family of lovers. One thing I didn't mention earlier, did not mention earlier is that we I have no recollection of being touched or hugged. Now, this is not, these things are not necessarily true. These are the narratives that we have in our heads. Uh I can't picture. I just it's it's not conceivable that I never heard the words I love you, I never heard I'm proud of you, or never got hugged. But even if I was, it is still nevertheless very significant that I have no recollection.

Chris Grainger: 41:40

affection of them so my dad um so my dad um and i had this experience and our family became not only a family of verbal affection but huggers as well affection and it got to be a little ridiculous one day one of my brothers and I were on the phone and we were saying goodbye and he and he said well I love you Pat he said and I'm thinking who is this who is this and I said well I love you and I've loved you for a lot longer than you've loved me and and he got upset and he said well I love you more than you love me and I said no that's not possible I love you more and then we went back and forth a couple of times I said well I do love you more than you love me and I hung up on him and it just got to be uh crazy and so uh to so from 35 the age of 35 on we began this process of reuniting our family but again without understanding the principles that I've written about in the book and I still hadn't heard the words I'm proud of you that's a different story but um well it does sound like that that was a powerful moment that impacted your entire family uh in in a tremendous way so I mean where did they end up with their faith journey just curious I mean was your mom your dad were they believers were your brothers had they ever turned to Christ or just where are they at there?

Patrick Morley: 43:26

Well it's interesting looking back in our f family it appears that there is a um a a Christian heritage in our family line my mom and dad helped start a church when they had young children but the church that we were involved in was based on transaction and performance so my dad was abandoned and part of this story and this is in the book too but part of the story starts back in 1926 when my father the youngest of four children was abandoned by his dad and so my dad grew up without a dad so what it meant to be a a godly man husband and father was unexampled to him and so he did the best that he could but they grew up in poverty uh then when he became uh you know um a man he wanted to be a cycle breaker right so um have we got a good connection Chris are you there I'm here yes sir it yeah it it but you can keep going yeah it was spooling on me over here so uh yeah and so my dad um you know he had uh two jobs when he was six years of age with his older brother they had a uh uh they worked on a bread truck got up at 3 a.m and then had a paper out and so when the church found out that my dad had this strong work ethic they put him to work and he became the top layman in the church by the age of 40 and then something happened and I don't know exactly what but my mom and dad they just got burned out and uh we dechurched. I was in the 10th grade my youngest brother was in the third grade so my mom and dad never went back and they were very bitter about the church but as I became an active Christian in the community I started a prayer breakfast at Thanksgiving it's in its 45th year now and my mom and dad both made professions of faith at this prayer breakfast and uh on both of the deathbeds I walked back through the gospel with them and uh they affirmed that they were putting their faith in Christ alone for their eternal salvation and so and my brother who died of the heroin overdose I was able to lead him to Jesus as well uh he was nevertheless a broken boy broken beyond repair I guess and so uh but he did uh just a few months before he died I saw him at a family reunion and I said Robert uh how are you doing on your spiritual journey and he knit his the brow of his forehead and he said well I want you to know I still believe but Pat also you need to know it's really hard for me. And then a few months later he died of a heroin overdose. So but yeah and then my brother who never had a job for more than six months until he was 50 at 50 he became a follower of Jesus and really began to settle down. So there you go. Wow what a what an what an incredible story. So God grafted the gospel of Jesus back into my family line through my wife's family line. So I my wife was a f was a follower of Jesus since the age of eight and I tricked her into thinking that I was a Christian because I really wanted to spend my life with her but it was pretty obvious a couple of weeks after our marriage that we had an ambiguity of terms about what it meant to be a Christian. So she was committed I was committed to a set of Christian values right I was a moralist but she was committed to a person to Jesus and I just couldn't figure that out for the longest time and then eventually when I understood what uh what the gospel was then I yielded my life to Jesus and then the transformation began love it love it.

Chris Grainger: 47:44

Well I mean if there's if there I'm sure there's guys listening Pat to your story it's very relatable. And they're maybe they're feeling a little tug right now. Maybe they're you've kind of gone through different ones angry ashamed afraid they don't want to open up the old wounds.

Patrick Morley: 47:58

Anything you would say directly to him that you want that you that you really want him to hear yes I think that uh and I think the reason I was led to accept your uh invitation or whatever to come on on your podcast is I I th I think that God wants men to know these four things. I see you I know what you're going through I love you unconditionally and I will always be with you so Christianity is heart transformation not behavior modification and there's a lot of behavior modification models out there and uh some of them are effective at least for a while but ultimately you can't behave your way out of something you believed your way into and so men if you're listening the narratives that you believe about your parents um if they are disrupting your life they don't have to there there is a way out 100% well Pat this is man phenomenal we always like to have just a little fun at towards the end of our conversations a little lightning round for our listeners to to get to know you.

Chris Grainger: 49:26

So if you're willing to play we'll jump into that how about that? Well can I lie? Yeah you roll with the however you like to roll with uh so unfortunately my life word is integrity so I guess I'll have to tell the truth well these are super simple they just they're a lot of fun though so how about uh we'll start nice and easy any hobbies that you enjoy doing for fun obviously we know you're a big writer but anything that you enjoy doing and hiking backpacking and hiking yep any fun trips recently on that yeah so I went to the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho um from Orlando Florida and uh that was my last trip and then uh let's see I'm gonna be in the Sequoia National Forest in November and uh yeah and so yeah I I I love doing that. That's awesome. That's all how long are you what's the typical day? How many miles are you hiking?

Patrick Morley: 50:24

Uh so I like to do you know 20 30 mile trips but two nights three days two nights okay so you're getting some steps in that's great. Yeah who goes with you solo well actually I never hike alone because God and I are a majority in every situation. Sure. But uh I do them as spiritual retreats so I go solo.

Chris Grainger: 50:50

Wow wow that's incredible that's incredible well hopefully enjoy your next one coming up so thank you what what's your favorite food pat what's your what's your go-to when you give up sit down to have a meal fish I just like any kind of fish any kind of fish yeah well you're in the right area for that being in Florida right yeah yeah well if you could have a superpower Pat which one would you like to have and how would you use it? Well I do have a superpower it's called love.

Patrick Morley: 51:18

Okay and I'd like more of it but uh love is my love is my superpower uh I feel like when we look at the life of Jesus I feel like that was a superpower and so uh 2 Corinthians uh what three eight or eighteen something like that talks about how we are being transformed into the image of Jesus with ever increasing glory and so if we're gonna if if if we are in fact being transformed into the image of Jesus men if you're listening you are if you're a follower of Jesus you are being transformed into the image of Jesus then then I just feel like uh knowing more the the more we know about Jesus uh the the the the quicker that the transformation can happen and when we look at him I see you look at Jesus just as overarching superpower and like he he's like the omnipotent superpower right but uh his his he says as the Father has loved me so have I loved you uh this is love not that we love God but that he loved us and gave his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins we love because he first loved us so love is the superpower.

Chris Grainger: 52:38

Amen to that brother amen. How about any any habits Pat? Anything that you that you started doing or that you find is just helpful for your day that you want to share with someone so good habits or bad habits?

Patrick Morley: 52:51

Oh we like to focus on the good but yeah you can get rid of the bad ones too well I'm a I'm a naturally disciplined person. So I I spend about an hour a day doing on average about an hour a day of doing something physical uh I don't get any credit for it because I'm naturally disciplined the person I admire the most is the person who doesn't have discipline that does it anyway but I uh I'm I take good care of myself I I can do 40 pushups without stopping and I do that every day. There you go just to start the day. That's a great way to get going.

Chris Grainger: 53:27

Love it. Love it. Well let's let's one question here in relations to God. What's your favorite thing about him?

Patrick Morley: 53:35

You've already mentioned love so you'd probably be where you go but I'd love to see where you what where your answer is here so um I spend so much time uh thinking and talking about God but what I love most about God is that I am able to have an ongoing conversation with him all day long. So maybe 30 years ago, you know we all have we all do self-talk it's how we fits fit the bits and pieces of life into a some sort of a coherent narrative and so we all have this running conversation with ourselves all day long. About 30 years ago I decided you know what I want to have a running conversation with Jesus all day long. And it's not completely possible to do that you know but um I basically my favorite my favorite thing about God is that he's willing to talk to me all day long. That's right. Love it. Let's flip it I think the Bible calls it abiding in in Jesus or remaining in Christ. Yeah.

Chris Grainger: 54:43

Right.

Patrick Morley: 54:43

Yes sir now let's go let's go 180 what's your least favorite thing about Satan um that he exists uh he has wreaked havoc in my family we have a our we uh uh have a daughter who uh passed away last year dropped dead of a heart attack unexpectedly she's also a very kinetic physical good health person and uh she just dropped dead of a heart attack and left behind a a 14 year old daughter and a 17 year old daughter our granddaughters and uh so um he is my least favorite thing about Satan is that he is so destructive. Yes you know it's just an obscenity that the things that he's allowed to do or gets away with actually he's nobody's getting away with anything. I guess everybody needs to know that right nobody's getting away with anything but um yeah so we've got your dog we've yeah yeah we've had a hard year.

Chris Grainger: 55:54

So sorry yeah well thank you I I will say this our our faith has not been affected in the slightest and uh we uh I and I am consoled after it's been a year and three months I I am consoled so well I mean it's just again praying for her daughters and your grandchild grand granddaughters and for that situation and Pat this has been wonderful just meeting you hearing your heart what do you hope the guys remember the most from our from our conversation we had today well honestly if they resonated men if you've resonated at all with this get the just get the book I mean you know what do I what I make out of it like $2.24 is my royalty.

Patrick Morley: 56:47

So do I care about $2.24? I could care less uh I I'm happy to send you a check for $5. I'll pay you to read the book. Get the book read the book it actually will help you. It's it's helping I think there are like 27,000 copies already of it that have been sold. It's helping thousands of men tens of thousands of men and so get the book.

Chris Grainger: 57:10

Where and where do you want them to do that? What's the best place for you? Is it Amazon or is it your personal website?

Patrick Morley: 57:16

Amazon you can get well they can go to my website and and uh it's just a redirect to you know Christian books and Amazon and the different places they can get it so yeah.

Chris Grainger: 57:26

Okay. And if they want to connect with you in other areas are you on social media? Do you need anything there?

Patrick Morley: 57:32

Yeah so I do. So it's Patrick Morley author and on Facebook I'm if if you're on Instagram you can look me up at Patrick Morley and there's a link tree there and so you that'll take you to all the different uh social media sites. Patrickmorley.com I have a uh weekly wisdom email and the one that comes out tomorrow is about reaching older men the the taken for granted generation and so if you're interested in that you can uh uh uh sign up for uh the weekly wisdom email and then I teach a Bible study uh it goes out all over the world that's you can get to it at patrickmorley.com as well and that's a weekly Bible study uh we have small groups meeting all over the world with that so uh a lot of the similar resources kinds of things you do um I do have a uh a chat bot called Ask Pat. Oh and so I've taken everything I've ever written or said I've I've got 23 books, 750 articles, about uh 2,000 Bible studies that I've taught and I've saved everything and we put it all together. It's almost a gigabyte of information and so Ask Pat is a is a chat bot and you can go on there and interact with me and it's in my voice and it's actually quite nice. Ask for you can find that on the website too.

Chris Grainger: 59:04

Oh it sounds good Pat so we'll add those those links up for everybody.

Patrick Morley: 59:07

Anything else you'd like to share today sir just uh I want the men to know that I I know it's hard out there and I know that it's good to have some brothers to do life together with so in addition to spending time with God personally I think the next most important thing that you can do well I have a saying a Bible a small group and serving someone else will solve 90% of your problems.

Chris Grainger: 59:41

Amen of that amen well Pat thank you so much for your time today it's been an absolute honor sir.

Patrick Morley: 59:48

Chris I I love you I love what you're doing and anything I can do anytime ever to help you let me know.

Chris Grainger: 59:55

Yes sir thank you so much all right fellas I told you I was gonna be a good one so thank you so much for Pat for coming on uh question of the week this week is what lies from the enemy do you need to rebuke? There's probably a lie that you're telling yourself right now that you're starting to believe that just absolutely needs to be rebuked my encouragement to you is don't put that off go ahead and just just call that out claim it get it out of your life fellas okay so hopefully enjoyed this one again check out Pat and all his resources there. Thelionwithin.us is how you connect with us directly fellas so if you're enjoying the podcast maybe you want to get a copy of the book Unleashing the Lion Within maybe you want to go to the Bible app and search for Lion Within Us and and read one of our many plans we have out there it's all different ways we try to encourage you for the guys who really want to kind of find your tribe and try to find it get connected with the guys that that that you're looking for we have our Lion Within Us community. So go start that and we'll have a 30-day free trial check that out and then for the ones that want to really go deeper our leadership mastermind is where it's at so we just many different ways we connect we get encouraged we try to serve but it's all found at thelionwithin.us so that's the lionwithin.us okay all right guys get after have a great day come back on Friday we'll have a fun Friday episode for you looking forward to hanging out with you and other than that just keep on leashing the lion within if there's one habit that can change your home is this when a husband prays with his wife not because it's a magic formula but because it recenters your marriage under God's authority and care. And let's be honest a lot of guys want to do it but most don't know how to start without it feeling awkward. Maybe you've tried it before and it felt forced or maybe you've Never tried it because you don't even know what to say. Or maybe you're thinking, man, I'm not a pastor, I'm just a guy. And that's why we created this guide. It's our how to pray with your wife. Simple guide. It's biblical, it's practical, and it's designed to help you start praying with your wife in a way that actually feels natural. So it's a five-section guide and it gives you a simple framework to get started. Okay, it makes sure everything is grounded in scripture. And it also has a powerful PDF that you can pull up whenever you need, especially when things get off, because they're gonna get off. That's normal. So this is all about reclaiming your marriage and reclaiming the spiritual leadership reigns of your home. Because praying with your wife is one of the strongest ways to fight for unity, to build trust, and to write the ship when life starts to pull you off a course. So if you're ready, get access today at the lionwithin.us slash guides. That's thelionwithin.us slash guides. And start unleashing the lion within at home by leading your marriage through prayer.