Chris Grainger: 1:10

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, fellas, it is meat episode time. Let's get into it, okay? So the scripture of the week this week is 2 Corinthians 10, 3. It says, for though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. So, fellas, take some time, go back and listen to that spiritual kickoff episode where we unpack that verse at length to give you ideas on how you can simplify and apply that to your life, because it's not just about having head knowledge, it's about actually moving that into application. That's what it's all about. And if you enjoy the spiritual kickoff episodes Monday through Friday, we do those within our Lion Within Us community and the best part is we do those for free. So go check out thelionwithinus, get connected, start it with your daily spiritual kickoff each and every day, to get that little boost that you're looking for All right.

Chris Grainger: 2:05

Now for this episode, we're bringing in Justin Smith. He's the founder of Beyond the Line Ministries and he had a passion on his heart, fellas. His passion was to see men break free from pornography and any unwanted sexual behavior. He had a personal pain story he's going to talk about and how he can. Ultimately, he relates to so many guys that are just battling this on a daily basis and he's helping them renew their minds to get their hearts right with the Lord and to really dig down into the wounds that, uh, that are really at the core of what pull us away from what God's called us. And so if you're struggling with pornography, or if you know someone who is, or or even if you don't, you feel like you've overcome this, you're going to find out some areas in this conversation that you may be able to personally plug into to serve someone who is going through this struggle right now. So I'm excited for this conversation Hopefully enjoy it with my buddy, justin Smith. Well, justin, how are you doing today? Today, man?

Justin Smith: 3:14

ready to rock and roll, chris, I'm good that's it, brother.

Chris Grainger: 3:17

That's it. I'm looking forward to digging in with you, for sure. I mean, I always like starting fun on our podcast. Maybe just share something about you that maybe not many people might not know.

Justin Smith: 3:32

I'm almost 40 years old and one of my favorite things to do is to take a hot bath. Oh man, is there anything better than just the hot water? Just just the therapy, the sound, the just calmness of a hot bath? That's there you go, I hear you I don't share with everybody. But there you go.

Chris Grainger: 4:01

That's right, and that's it, bro. You're the first one to go that route, so I hear you, man, that's awesome. No shame, no gain, that's it.

Justin Smith: 4:08

I got to get a hot tub one day.

Chris Grainger: 4:12

That'll be on the bucket list. There you go, buddy, there you go. Well, man, I I know we got connected. You have some, uh, a great ministry, some things. You're really it's, you're really your heart's in such a just on fire for the lord. You started this thing called beyond the line ministry, man. So let's just share a little bit like the genesis of it. How did it get started?

Justin Smith: 4:33

yeah, uh, I'd say, getting started takes you all the way back to childhood and teenage years, where pornography and sexual sin comes into life. Because who sets out graduating high school to go, yeah, I'm gonna go ministry helping guys battle out of pornography and sexual sin? That's, that's not what you write on the graduation card, Right? But you know, my brokenness and my sins, even in my teenage years, eventually led that, paired with a heart to serve God, as a platform to open up beyond the line ministries, but on a smaller scale. It actually 10 years ago would be when it probably started, because that's when I started my healing recovery. So it was August of 2015. That would be the moment where my wife told me get your crap together or get out of the house because the pornography I just couldn't be victorious over it. I mean I love Christ't. I couldn't be victorious over it. I mean I love Christ and I was serving him, helping do men's ministry, leading stuff. But I was just so broken on this topic it was like my my go-to binky or my comfy blanket anytime, in pain, and I didn't even realize it. So 10 years ago I started a healing journey that God brought some amazing men, some amazing ministries, amazing material to help me start to unpack what was going on. And, um, at that point I was selling geothermal heating and cooling systems, which, which is actually pretty cool.

Justin Smith: 6:12

But my heart was to do ministry Before that, when I lived in Maryland, I worked with Campus Crusade and I loved going to the college campus at the University of Maryland and sharing the gospel. My heart is to see people come to a loving relationship with Christ, to realize that that brokenness inside of them. You're not going to fill it with anything. And Jesus is saying hey, turn from that, Come to me, I will give you peace, I'll give you forgiveness. That was my heart. But then my sin kind of got in the way of executing that. Sin kind of got in the way of executing that. And so, after my wife called me out so firm of her but also incredibly gracious to walk alongside me in my brokenness I began to get healing and along the way God started to marry the two of a heart to serve him in ministry.

Justin Smith: 7:19

And my story, Like this, is personal to me and millions of men. But he used my brokenness to open up, eventually be on the line. And that was the goal of helping guys, Cause when I started I was like Chris, there's, there's no way. I remember telling the first group leader I walked through some material with, if this doesn't work, like I'm, I'm toast, Like I, I can't be victorious over this.

Justin Smith: 7:40

I've tried, I've tried and over that process I started to find freedom and I was like I have that heart to take that to men, Cause if God can free me, he can free anybody. And that was something I had to realize was true. And along the way, with some support from my wife and some brothers, I realized, wait, a minute. I've always had like an entrepreneurial mindset. You know my dad's an entrepreneur and, like you know, the just working for someone I always was like I liked being able to create and like trailblaze. So God really put all these different pieces and aspects together for me to do ministry and specific to this topic. So that's a little bit of the backstory behind.

Chris Grainger: 8:31

Yeah, kind of came about. That's awesome, man. So I mean it sounds like you had a a pretty strong Christian foundation to start with, so did you grow up in the church?

Justin Smith: 8:41

I grew up, uh, like church Okay. So, um, mom and dad did a, did a really, really awesome job loving on me, guiding me. We grew up Catholic, so I had a nice foundational. I knew a lot of stories and a lot of concepts of Christ, but it was about when I was 16, I really started having some like deeper questions, which makes sense for a lot of teenagers. And it wasn't about like going to, you know, Catholic church or church. It was really like who is Jesus and what is this hope that he is offering?

Justin Smith: 9:25

And so at 16, I 16, or 17, 17, maybe I gave my life to Christ in March of 2003. And that's what I was looking for. I was like, wait a minute. No, Nissan 300ZX like I got was going to make me happy. No, girlfriend. No, playing football, no part. I'm like there's an emptiness as a teenager and I knew Christ was the solution. So I started walking with Jesus and I got plugged in with Young Life. And then from there, God just opened up. You know a trajectory for me to grow spiritually, Brought some good men into my life. I had my dad and I had other men, but God was faithful to bring mentorship along my path for me, which bled into even Beyond the Line and how we operate.

Chris Grainger: 10:15

Right, right, I'm curious though. All right, so kind of tying into Beyond the Line. So you got through the Christian Foundation, you confessed your life, Like what was the pinhole man that started the trail down pornography, pornography down that destructive path? Right, it never starts with hardcore porn. Like what, what does it start with? Was it a magazine? Like what was it that the input point? Uh, point that, uh, that you can look. When you think back and reflect on that, you can say, yeah, that's where things began to unravel yeah, I, I know exactly where it started it was.

Justin Smith: 10:52

I was in fourth grade, so I was probably about four years fourth grade I was in um, so about 10 years old, went over a friend's house and, uh, lived across the street and, um, he had older brothers and what they weren't. They weren't believers, very, very you know. I think he would even admit little dysfunctional multiple marriages, kind of put all together.

Justin Smith: 11:20

And so at his house I got exposed to pornography from his older brother's material and I can still vaguely remember that picture. That's how much that first exposure hits. And so it's kind of like in business when you get a product to the market, first it stamps and everyone you know that's what is the standard. So from there that like opened it up and then from there you know we're talking mid-90s Sports Illustrated swimsuit issues.

Justin Smith: 11:55

You know, oh yeah, inserts from you know, kmart and JCPenney that you know. For younger people, hearing this, you're going to be like, what is he talking about? But if you're over 30, you'll probably have a concept here, like the internet wasn't here yet, and so this was the exposure. And then the internet hit about when I was 13, 14 years old. We moved past dial-up to you know, I guess, high-speed internet where it didn't tie your phone line up, and my parents made a mistake, not a malicious mistake, but they put a computer in the basement and a teenage boy, my parents didn't know what the internet was going to entail and how destructive it could be.

Justin Smith: 12:42

But my teenage years, that was just there. And from there going through teenage emotions, you know, dealing with rejection, feeling like a failure. So I'm dyslexic and I have ADHD and so school was a bear for me. So as you're going through school and you're struggling, all of a sudden you can take on brokenness and go man, I'm a failure, I suck, I'm stupid, like all these things that are deep core wounds. Well, pornography is the perfect outlet, because I go and watch pornography, I don't feel stupid, I don't feel inadequate, I don't feel like a failure. There was this perfect married, dysfunctional solution that my teenage years got got hit with my teenage years got got hit with, and so that's a common one.

Chris Grainger: 13:37

Though, man, I mean it gets exposed. I mean you didn't go to I'm sure you probably went over that buddy's house to play, right, I mean just your fourth grade, and next thing you know, it just hits you between the eyes and that's that's a common area. That's why we have to like. For me as a parent man, I'm super probably I'll probably go too far at times on where they're going to go spend the night, you know, and I just, I don't know, you're not, you're not going too far at all.

Justin Smith: 14:02

Like you know, then, I think one of the top places where sexual abuse occurs is during sleepovers. So, and it's not like usually a malicious completely, but you're putting your kids in vulnerable spots like, right, my oldest daughter is going to like a christian summer camp in in about a week and my brain is churning and it's like what's the safety, what's all the things that are there to protect? And so you're not going too far, especially in today's age, because average age of exposure today to hardcore pornography for children is eight years old. Right, right.

Justin Smith: 14:45

We're not talking about, like I saw, a naked woman picture, you know, like our grandpa's saw or had on their toolbox, kind of thing. That's right, that's right. A hardcore video is what eight year olds are on average getting exposed to now, which completely distorts and jacks the brain up. The brain can't humble it at that age.

Chris Grainger: 15:11

Right, Right, Right, yeah, and I mean. And then you think, well, we just got to get plugged into the church, it's a safe place. And then you start looking at some of the church statistics and it's even scarier at times, like of how infiltrated pornography is just in the congregation, particularly among men. Now the women numbers I've been seeing lately they're on a huge surge, unfortunately. But yeah, it's not like you're immune to it just because you're in church.

Justin Smith: 15:41

Yeah, no, I mean I'd say outside of the church. I mean you're looking at a clip of probably 90-plus percent of men can't go 30 days without looking up something inappropriate acting out in some sexual capacity In the church. It's a smidgen better, it's probably about upper 70s, about 80 percent. That's extremely frustrating because you're like, you have the Holy Spirit. You can execute the fruit of the Spirit, which is self-control. But most guys don't have any ability to do that because they've been trapped in this for 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years and they have no idea what the root is or why they keep going back. They're like Lord, I love you, just like Paul in Romans 7 and 8. He does what he doesn't want to do, but what he wants to do he can't do.

Justin Smith: 16:35

What most guys don't realize is, as they go through a healing process, the thing that drives them are some really deep broken spots inside their soul, but we usually don't do a good job of helping guys get down to touch and address those, because that's the undercurrent that's driving the whole ship. It's not that you're just that horny or you have that high of a sex drive. I love when guys tell me that because it's like, well, I just have a high sex drive. I'm like, no, you don't. Like statistically, you having that is so rare. Like statistically, you having that is so rare. You have a pain medication problem that you've been coping with since you were 12 years old and now you're 43. Now you're 32, 27. Now it's catching up with you and we got to deal with it.

Chris Grainger: 17:29

Right, right, 100%, bro, 100%. We're going to take our first break, guys, and we'll be right back when we dig into more Beyond the Line and how Justin is serving others. I've got something big to share. We're making a major shift because we know the battle is real and it's time more men had access to the support they need.

Chris Grainger: 17:49

For too long, guys have been trying to carry the weight alone pressure at work, tension at home, wounds from the past in a world that demands strength but offers no place to rest. We see it, we've lived it, and that's exactly why we built our community. It's a stronghold, a place where warriors can find rest, truth and a band of brothers standing beside them. And starting now, we're making it easier than ever to step in. We've lowered the barrier to just $15.99 a month. That means, for less than the cost of a drive-thru lunch, you can join a brotherhood that's centered on Christ and built for growth. Inside you'll find access to our daily spiritual kickoffs every Monday through Friday, our Lion Lunches, our Bible Studies, our Friday Forge Gatherings all that and so much more.

Chris Grainger: 18:34

Every man needs a stronghold, and you don't have to fight alone. If you've been waiting for the right time to jump in this is it? Go to thelionwithinus and join the community and see for yourself what happens when iron truly sharpens iron. Truly sharpens iron. All right, man. So let's, let's get into it so like, elaborate the core of beyond the line, because I mean there's there's lots of different programs and initiatives and books and there's it's resource overload. Sometimes you know when you start looking at even combating it and it's some good stuff out there. So what differentiates you and how you go about doing it and serving you know the guys who are hurting in this area.

Justin Smith: 19:14

Yeah, well one. I think that resource, resource overload is a huge praise as you go back 20 years the only thing every man's battle might have been the first and only yeah fred, yeah man, what a great yeah, like, so we've gone from that and say 2000.

Justin Smith: 19:36

So in 25 years now we're talking about neuroscience, now we're talking about brokenness, now we're talking about repentance and how they all pair together the resources today. Praise god for them. But you do make a good point. You're like where do I start? And so one thing I have loved seeing guys in this recovery world in different ministries. I have seen them play incredibly well together.

Justin Smith: 20:04

Okay, so it's not competitive. Yeah, yeah, like you think about the business world, like you know, coke, pepsi, che, ford, toyota, like there's this competition to steal the F-150 owner, to get them to the tundra, and you know, like that's not the recovery world, it's let's get guys to a spot where they can start healing. And guys, just like you know, stick with pickup trucks, trucks. There's lots of different style pickup trucks that meet different needs. Like if you're hauling concrete blocks for work, you're not buying a ford maverick or a honda ridgeline. You've got an f-250 or something like that. If you just need something to take the kayaks and the bike, you could probably get a h Honda Ridgeline or a Maverick, like it depends on what you need. And so I've worked with some amazing ministries I mean Pure Desire out in Oregon or they're actually moving to Nashville now. But like they're, they're phenomenal, be Broken Ministries, faithful and True Bravehearts, like there's so many amazing ministries that are gathering guys together and if you think about the magnitude, if 70 of the church men in the church can't go 30 days without acting out, there's no shortage of men that need help. So it's not a competition of like, oh, supply and demand, yeah, it's not a small market, right, it, it's tapping into the market to help them realize there's resources, there's help, there's hope.

Justin Smith: 21:41

But we have this big, huge barrier called shame. And inside the church and outside the church like, shame is a powerful tool the enemy uses. Sure, I can't bring this out, it'll ruin everything, and so they just keep trapped in it. But I tell guys one day, when I write a book, this is going to be a chapter. It's called biddle whiff, bring it to light, win the fight. If you, if you don't bring stuff to light, it will eventually destroy you. And my wife was just telling me this morning of someone she knew from childhood. Married five kids, he's been cheating on her their entire marriage and it's like I, their marriage is probably toast outside of a genuine miracle from the Holy Spirit and intense healing. But if he had brought that out after the first mistake there would have been a drastically higher chance of that marriage healing, of that marriage healing. But we hold it in in secret and we give our flesh and our secretness the power and it never turns out good. And so the resources and tools at Beyond the Line.

Justin Smith: 23:02

I've kind of taken multiple aspects. I mentioned the men that have poured into me, you know, when I started walking with Christ and I learned the importance of having godly men that are a step ahead of me, I have an 11 year old and starting to realize that wait, teenage years are are coming, you know, and the conversations we're having with her are very different than what we're doing with our three year old, very different than what we're doing with our three-year-old. And so my wife and I have been just navigating how there's this little girl and this little boy and they're at different chapters in life, so they have different needs. Same thing with Beyond the Line. I had different needs. I needed mentorship and I also needed structure. My daughter's needing mentorship and guidance at 11. My three-year-old he needs structure, like they both need God's love. They both need my love, their mom's love. But what we've done at Beyond the Line is we've paired mentorship with the structure of small group work, and a lot of ministries will do small group work and a lot of ministries will do, you know, mentorship type stuff. So I just paired them together. So what I did was you need, in a group work, to know that you're not alone. So when you get plugged in, you've got five, six, seven other brothers all across the country, sometimes across the world. They're in the same spot so you can be open and go.

Justin Smith: 24:37

Yeah, I relapsed with pornography because you're in a group of guys that are tackling it together. They're not stocked while you're there, right, and from there you pair that with someone that's been a step down the road ahead of you. You get guidance Back to my 11-year-old. Like I'm starting to ask men that are older than me that have raised children, how do I do this? Like I've got almost a teenage girl. I'm starting to see some of the emotions and push back.

Justin Smith: 25:09

How do I do this? Well, I'm not going to ask my buddy that's got a six-month-old. I'm going to ask the guy that raised four kids and his kids are all in their late 20s now and he goes listen, here's where I was too firm, here's where I didn't give them enough freedom, I smothered them, or here's where I could go back and go. Yeah, I wouldn't have done that. I want to glean from the men that have walked that and the same thing with Beyond the Line is me and some other guys I have coming on to help, just lead and facilitate. They've walked the journey. They know about setting up boundaries, they know about the healing process with their wives. It's giving them the, the hey, don't step here, let's step over here, because if you do this, this is going to be a landmine over here. So pairing small group and mentorship is really the essence of, uh, what we've kind of created okay, that's awesome man.

Chris Grainger: 26:08

So I mean so it's a program set up. How are are you finding the guys right now? I mean, is it? Do you have a big marketing that's out? Are you working with churches? How are guys finding what you're doing?

Justin Smith: 26:22

That's a great question and so, um, I don't know. I have some video courses coming out, hopefully later this year. Uh, we launched like a workbook journal that actually will be going live here. Like the max guys, they can walk with the max probably 15. And that would be like leading two groups and them doing like a biweekly mentorship call one-on-one.

Chris Grainger: 26:59

So that's a one-on-one call, okay.

Justin Smith: 27:01

Yeah. So every guy I work with, almost every guy, they're in a group structure together every week an hour and a half to two hours every week working through coursework. Okay, and then they're doing a one-on-one call with me. Some are an hour, some are a half hour, some meet every week, depending on you know how big the fire in their life is, kind of thing, life is kind of thing. But they're getting one-on-one time to process stuff deeper and process clinically based, biblically backed material for them to work on their healing.

Justin Smith: 27:35

So, okay, it's not like, hey, here's a coursework, go just do it at your leisure. They, those are out there and I would say they're a good first start. But until you step into community and accountability you're not going to actually heal completely. You can't do this in isolation on a coursework, by yourself, with no one looking into your life. And that's where I try to get guys is you have a mentor and you have brothers looking into your life. You're not going 48 hours without checking in with someone, because you've gone some guys 48 years without checking in. So we got to break that.

Chris Grainger: 28:22

So so the weekly, the coursework they're working through. I'm sure that's brings a lot of value. And then he says it. So you're having that one-on-one conversation Every other. This is an intensive type, hands-on approach. How long? What's, what's the duration of this where you feel like you're getting guys, I'm sure it's different. For for, for the healing journey, for it's, it's not just well, six weeks in your heel. That was probably a lot different type of scenario.

Justin Smith: 28:49

Yeah, if you look up into clinical counseling and treatment facilities for addiction like alcohol or drugs, the stats, you can even look insurance companies up. The longer they stay in recovery, the better chance they have of truly being free from it. So like when you see like a celebrity go to a seven, 10 day or 30 day rehab, most likely they're going to be back, they might clean it up for a little bit. And so the longer we stay, keep a guy in recovery, the better. So with the coursework and with mentorship at minimum, it's a year that I take guys through. So I tell guys up front I'm like, look, if you want something that's not committed or you're like praying for the quick fix, it's, it's not here, you're not going to find it anywhere.

Justin Smith: 29:47

Really like you've got decades of brokenness, all the way back to the seven-year-old boy that his dad yelled at him in front of his brothers and like we're digging all the way back there and you can't do that in six weeks but you're gonna need. In my journey and most people's journey it takes two to five years to break free out of sexual sin, not break free in terms of like the behavior, the behavior truly. What they say is, you know a couple months you truly can be done with the behavior. But the brokenness and the healing for most men takes two to five years. It took me about two and a half years before I was truly like, I feel healthy, and that was a lot of work. Every week every thursday I drove an hour almost to go to a group work and wow, I, that was the best best I ever did.

Justin Smith: 30:48

I was actually going back to college at the same time and we had our second child and I was like I can't, I can't do both. And I said I'm done. I scrapped the college thing again Cause I was like it's the point of getting a college degree if I'm still trapped in sexual sin? And I'm to this day still grateful for that wisdom.

Chris Grainger: 31:12

I had there. That's awesome. I am curious for the guys listening, justin, because I've had this counsel from others and I'm just curious where you're at with it. So you recognize that this is an area you need to be addressing as a guy and you want to take a path forward and you find Beyond the Line Ministries like yep, I'm going all in. At what point do you bring this to light if it hasn't been brought already to your spouse, to your girlfriend, to your significant other? Cause I've heard lots of different approaches on this, so do they get to talk to them first? Are you working this on the side without them knowing, like, walk, walk that guy who may be wrestling with, like how do you actually do this now?

Justin Smith: 32:01

Yeah that that. That's a tough question To that guy that's wrestling with that. I'm going to tell him it's coming out. Just face that reality. We see in Galatians 6, 7, and 8,. God says he will not be mocked, for what a man sows, he will reap. Whether he sows to the spirit, he'll reap life and peace. Sows to the flesh, he'll reap destruction. Spirit, he'll reap life and peace. So the flesh don't reap destruction.

Justin Smith: 32:29

When we sow seeds into the ground later in life, they're coming out and for a lot of us, that reality of what that we've sown popping up just like a harvest. You know, for a farmer, we're gonna hit that our actions, our sin, it's going to come up. How we handle it coming up can help heal our marital relationships or it can make it a lot more challenging. So just that reality of for a guy to go, you're going to have to face the music at some time. For a guy to go, you're going to have to face the music at some time. Now, when it comes to like guys and how they do that, I've seen lots of guys. The Holy Spirit just convicts them. They run home and they just vomit everything or so they think everything all over their wife. That's a horrible decision. Your poor bride like you've just blindsided her and you're making yourself look like the victim getting all this out. It's like carrying like a backpack of bricks and you just took it and you just dumped all the bricks on top of her and now she's all beat up and covered in brick dust. That's the last thing we want to do. Brick dust that's the last thing we want to do.

Justin Smith: 33:50

So most people would recommend, like if your sin comes out and you're caught, you you're kind of in a different spot. You're in like firefighter mode. That's right. If you're sitting there with conviction you're going to blindside your wife. I would bring people into that equation because you're going to stab your wife in the stomach with this, like you're going to hurt her because sin has an effect. The goal, I tell guys, is that I'm only stabbing her one time. The last thing we want to do is repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. We want to. If we can be one stab, we can't go back and redo the sin that's already been done. But if we can limit the damage and help her healing process and give her the chance to be able to heal correctly from your mistakes and help your marriage heal. That's what we're going to go for.

Justin Smith: 34:49

So I would say, seek counsel, you know, seek correct counsel too. And like, make sure it's someone that has an idea of sexual sin, and some it's a challenge with the church. Sometimes pastors are amazing, sometimes they're not quite equipped like to do that. So make sure you get the right resources and and I've told guys too when I have guys reach out, if I'm not a fit to help them, I'm guiding them exactly to where they need to go. Like, if a guy's story is maybe a little too much for me and he needs, like, professional counseling and therapy, I'm guiding him to, if I can, to ministries, or, if it's a certain state I know, to a counselor, or if there's other ministries that are a better fit. The goal is to start to get help and get healing 100%.

Chris Grainger: 35:54

I love that advice, and Alonso, well, I haven't heard of the stabber once. That makes so much sense, though. Right, and for the guy out there, you think you're considering just word vomiting on her, like please hear justin and his wisdom right there.

Justin Smith: 36:10

So I really appreciate you taking time to go through that man yeah, I had um one more nugget on that. Yeah, I had a guy in a group one time and, uh, he made some mistakes earlier in his marriage and he was cheating on his wife for about six months and then like the Lord kind of convicted him and he stopped, never went back to it, but he kept it a secret for 14 years and he just couldn't deal with it eventually and he finally shared it with his wife and I've always used that picture as a story going. She said the lies hurt more. Yeah, and I tell guys that, like she has a chance to heal from your physical mistake. But when we start to lie and build the lies upon lies upon lies, trust is broken in a big way. So bring it to light, win the fight Right.

Chris Grainger: 37:16

Right, 100%, brother. Look, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Guys, we're making a big change that I think you're really going to enjoy.

Chris Grainger: 37:28

I spent a lot of time thinking about our spiritual kickoffs and, honestly, I love doing them each week, so much so we started doing them live every Monday through Friday inside our exclusive platform. And here's the best part We've decided to give full access, completely free, so now you can join our daily spiritual kickoff space at no cost. Every day, we go live to read the word, to encourage each other and find simple and powerful ways to apply God's truth to our lives. You'll even have the chance to engage with me directly, and if you missed a live stream, don't worry, the videos are posted the same day so you can catch up whenever it works for you. This is exclusive behind-the-scenes content that is not available anywhere else, and now we've removed every excuse. So if you're ready to get started, head over to the lion withinus and grab your free access today. Let's grow together.

Chris Grainger: 38:34

So, justin, I'm super curious man. When you start looking back, I'm sure you got some pretty awesome success stories. Do any of them? Obviously, you don't change the names, but does anything come to mind, just to give some guys a vision of hope that maybe that guy's in a dark place right now. Sometimes just hearing you know how others have overcome can be, you know, pretty inspirational. So any of your guys have gone work with uh, you know beyond the line that you feel like man. That's just a great story of a win.

Justin Smith: 39:03

Yeah. So there's a couple um let's pick the most vanilla names Jim and Susan, right, um, and Jim's stuff popped up and he didn't even mean to expose it or really realize it and his wife was like, what is this? And at that moment he realized, oh, I've got an issue. We got to deal with it. They plugged in to do some recovery work. They did some counseling and I got to lead him in a group. I've never seen a couple do so well, because they went after it. They said let's do, let's do healing, and they both worked their part of it her betrayal, his action together and separate, and it produced amazing fruit. And it was a great picture of like, do something, don't just stuff it down, don't just sweep it under the rug, attack it and go for it. So that was. That was one really cool success story.

Justin Smith: 40:09

Um, I have uh, two more I got. One was a college guy and this this guy was struggling, bad and, you know, challenging and kind of left when we were done our coursework. He was done college too. So I was doing with a bunch of college guys and he wasn't free. But I touched base with him about two years later and he was on fire for the Lord and he was walking in freedom and it was a good picture of like, just cause a guy doesn't click and get it at that moment Doesn't mean that work won't click in. And a little bit of time, when the peeing got higher, when the challenge got, the Holy spirit finally got ahold of his heart and he's he's walking in total freedom and it's really cool. And uh. The last one is uh, he was actually another college guy, you know, he's in his mid-20s now, I guess, and he's a missionary overseas right now.

Justin Smith: 41:15

And one of the things I do with guys is we do what's called a recovery action plan. Guys hate this. They hate it because within the first month I make them put together who needs to know about a relapse? What is a relapse, defining it, how it affects them, god, relationships with others and also bringing in like a physical, real consequence to the action.

Justin Smith: 41:42

This is where guys struggle going oh, it's just sexual sin, it's's just pornography. There's no real consequence. I'm not hurting anybody, right, right, especially guys that aren't married. When we're married, god gives us that ability that I can see the pain on my wife's face. But for single guys it's even harder to realize there's consequence. So we implemented some consequences to help guys realize this is not pain-free. If I speed 90 miles an hour through a school zone, I'm going to get busted for a big ticket. If I don't show up for work for two weeks straight, well, on week three I'm not going to have a job. There's consequence in life. And helping guys realize that there's consequence in life and helping guys realize that. So this young college guy, he uh, his consequence was if he goes back to destruction.

Justin Smith: 42:37

He'll work his dad on a company and during the summer he would, you know, breaks he would work for his dad, you know do labor type, contractor stuff and uh, he said I'll work for an entire day without pay. And you think about it, a college guy guy, let's say he was making 15 bucks. You say work 10 hours, 150 for someone in college you know, if you're listening to this and you're running a company making you know, 150, 200, 000, you're like no big deal. 150 bucks for a college guy is yeah, and he did that. He told his dad and his dad's like fine, okay, I'm not gonna pay you for that day, and that would. It forever. Changed the trajectory because he realized, wait, my action had a ripple effect, just like our relationship with the lord. When we dive into sexual sin, it breaks that relationship. We dive in sexual sin, it breaks that relationship with our wives. Putting tangibleness behind it really helped him get that picture, which was really cool that is really cool, man.

Chris Grainger: 43:38

That is an awesome story. So I mean, looking on beyond the line, what's your goals for? Where do you think is headed?

Justin Smith: 43:48

that's a cool question too. Um, I'm totally okay with whatever god leads, um, if later on videos and it grows and it helps thousands of men a year, or if it just grows where it's me and a dozen other men like me and we're helping 100 guys a year. Whatever God wants to do, I know God will take care of provision and he'll take care of all the needs, but I just want to lay it at his feet. I don't have ambitious goals. It's not about me producing some sort of amazing ministry. It's the stories. It's. It's those guys' lives that are touched. Because when you help one guy, in reality I'm helping a guy, I'm not me. The Lord's helping a guy, he's helping his wife, a marriage, you know, two, three, four, five kids, future generations of grandkids. You're breaking fatherlessness because divorce will drop. You're breaking everything dysfunctional that we see in our world when a guy can tackle his sin. So it's pretty cool to see that ripple effect and whatever God wants to do, I'm okay with it. We'll see how it grows.

Chris Grainger: 45:06

It's been the hardest part so far with it.

Justin Smith: 45:12

I think the hardest part is I spoke at a conference a year and a half ago. I got to share my testimony. I was not the keynote speaker, but I got to share my story that aired out to 20,000 people, 20,000 men that were attending and watching a Christian men's conference, some in person, some like they streamed in across the world. I think the most disappointing thing was from 20,000 men statistically it's, let's say, 70% 20,000 men statistically it's, let's say 70%, that's 14,000 men that didn't make it 30 days without going back to pornography or sexually acting out. I was like, okay, what do I do when I get 800 to 1,000 to 2,000 emails? And my core team of guys that I have with me, kind of like elders, were like we'll just cross that bridge when it comes and that bridge never came. I only got 25 emails total, which, praise God for those guys that did reach out.

Justin Smith: 46:21

But it's like that's the hardest thing is you know the problems there, but the shame is so high that guys won't reach out and you can even think about like guys in middle age. You know their 40s, 50s, like they know that their diet and their lack of exercise and all these things are not good, but they still won't do anything about it. So that's been the hardest thing, and probably the second has actually been churches. A little bit Like if I know 70% of the guys in my congregation, this is an issue Like why? Why am I? Why am I thinking about softball teams and why am I thinking about, like you know, how we can do other things, like because sexual sin bleeds through everything his relationship with God, his ability to serve his wife, love his wife, his kids. So to me those are probably been the biggest challenges. But I've also seen God do some cool stuff in men's lives and in churches. But I'd like to see that like floodgate open up. That'd be cool, that would be cool.

Chris Grainger: 47:33

That's an area man. We're more worried about the sausage biscuit on Saturday mornings than we are pornography man and like that's. That's real talk, though, and that's that can be tough at times. So hats off to you, you know, for for leaning into the hard, because you're definitely in a in a tough path, but it's a much needed path for sure.

Chris Grainger: 47:51

Yeah for sure. Awesome brother. Well, hey look, let's do a lightning round with you. I love to have a little fun here at the end, get the guys to know you a little bit more personally as well. Fire away, awesome brother. So hobbies like what do you enjoy doing for fun, buddy.

Justin Smith: 48:09

Well, I've got four little kids, so I'd say my hobby category is pretty low at the moment.

Chris Grainger: 48:19

You only pick one at this stage in life, bro.

Justin Smith: 48:23

Yeah, I mean not not really much. I love when I get a chance, I love landscaping like I've done, like some flowers and trees and bushes around my house, like nice. I find that quasi therapeutic because you get to see a beautiful outcome. Um, I'll play golf with my dad, you know, handful of handful of times a year. So that's 39 years old. I finally beat him this past year and he's 67. And so there?

Chris Grainger: 48:53

you go.

Justin Smith: 48:53

Not a bad shoulder, but I'm just still going to take the win.

Chris Grainger: 48:56

That's right. Take the W, bro. Take the W yeah.

Justin Smith: 48:59

That, um, something on my bucket list. I guess you could put it in the hobby. I've never done it. I want to do one of those epoxy live edge wood tables. Yeah, man, that's just. But I get so intimidated. I kind of need someone to like do it with me because I don't have the tools. But that's a stuff like that. I like that and construction a little bit. That's cool, man, yeah.

Chris Grainger: 49:25

What's the age range of you kids? Again, I forget 11, 8, 6 and 3. Yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're head in it bro you're yeah, that's it. That's it. That's awesome, though. So, um, think about your kids. They may watch like superheroes and and stuff like that. So if you had a superpower, justin, which one would you like to have and how would you use it, man?

Justin Smith: 49:48

Man, that's a pretty good one. We were just at Universal Studios and they got all the superheroes. Yeah yeah, what would my superpower be? Man, chris, that's, that's a. That's a good one.

Chris Grainger: 50:08

I'm trying to think all like the marvel type oh yeah, I know, man there, there's lots of them out there.

Justin Smith: 50:14

I've always randomly, I don't know, and there's gonna be people listening to this that like, like oh, he really botched that up. But I've always thought gambit was really cool. Okay, like how he could I don't even know what he could do he like always turn playing cards or things into explosive objects. So right, the ability to turn things into explosives be cool. But there you go, iron man his suit. I mean, I think iron man's pretty dope, yep, yep yeah, that's yeah, that's it, brother.

Chris Grainger: 50:47

That's it. We'll go easier on this one. How about favorite food, man? What's your go-to there?

Justin Smith: 50:55

Ooh, my childhood favorite food is, hands down, mac and cheese. That's it, and I make it for my kids and I'm like Justin, you got to watch your carbs, man, but I'm just like shoveling again. But as I've gotten older we actually had it last night. Sushi is like that has become my favorite. Just good sushi. It lights up the neuroreceptors in the brain with happy thoughts.

Chris Grainger: 51:28

That's it, man. That's it. That's me and my wife. When we have a date night, we very, very often hit a sushi spot. Man, it's just. And she didn't even had never tried sushi until we got married. So now she's like thank you, I'm like, I told you, girl, it's awesome stuff.

Justin Smith: 51:42

Yeah, same here my wife. She got me on that train and that's a great date night too, like, yeah, like, my wife is a phenomenal cook, like out of control. Good, when I married her. Like my wife, anything she touches she's a rock star. Yeah, I had no idea when I married her. She was so cute, she loved the Lord. I had no idea the cooking was going to be like through the roof. The going out to eat has been a huge letdown. Yeah, you make this better, but sushi she won't make sushi. So it's like the. Yeah, that's us, that's it, yeah that's how I feel too.

Chris Grainger: 52:24

That's awesome. Well, look, when you think about god, justin like, what's your favorite thing about him?

Justin Smith: 52:35

but I think, when I think back to when I came to new christ at 16, 17, just I think the word that came to me was hope. And you know we watched like, and you know we watched like my wife and I've been. You know she's been wrestling a lot with that. The flood in texas that just occurred been tough, man. Yeah, and you know I was listening to one pastor, like, as believers or people, we ask why, you know, and and I heard this one pastor say, instead of asking why, because we're never going to get the answer to the why, ask who.

Justin Smith: 53:17

And for us I have a choice. I can go God is good, he loves me. We're in a fallen world. Or I can say who is God? He's wicked and cruel, torturous. Well, I know my heart as a sinful man towards my children. So I know the heavenly father's heart towards me is he loves me, even, like when we see job and he goes through trials. Or joseph goes through trials. Or you know the disciples, how they lay their life down. Like that God loves me, no matter what. Like that's my hope. You know, if we place our hope like, I have everything I've ever wanted in life A beautiful, amazing wife, four kids. You know I own two Toyotas the most reliable vehicles on the earth Like this is amazing.

Justin Smith: 54:09

We have a nice house, got parents and in-laws that love me. I have everything, but it all can go away. We have friends that they lose a parent, they lose a spouse, but that hope that I have an eternal security with Christ, that's like the most beautiful thing. That deep down inside of my anxieties and brokenness and all that churns in us as humans, I can go, lord, I'm going to be with you after this ride, like something along. That would be probably how I would answer that this ride like something along.

Chris Grainger: 54:50

That would be probably how I would answer that beautiful answer. Now let's flip it 180. What's your least favorite thing about the evil one? It is, that is a 180.

Justin Smith: 54:59

Um. Least favorite thing he doesn't fight fair and everything I walk through with guys. He didn't attack a full grown man, he attacked a child and we see that. I mean you look into sex trafficking, which you put pornography, that realm, they bleed together and you see the destructiveness and the disgustingness of sex trafficking and child trafficking. It makes you want to like rip someone's head off. It makes you so angry, makes you so angry and knowing that same concept is how he uses to attack us, to get us on a trajectory where we're going to get crushed by sexual sin, whether that's kids getting molested, whether that's, you know, just brokenness of neglect, and they find pornography like that childhood attack on children. I think that's why a lot of people this the Texas flood like that camp. I think that's why a lot of people this the Texas flood like that camp.

Justin Smith: 56:12

I think that's my kids. Like I lost both my grandparents about a year and a half ago. I loved them. They were 97 and 95. I did not cry very much Like my grandfather served in World War II, like he was that old. But you see children getting hurt and how the enemy can use his dominion on this world and his wickedness on that. That's probably the hardest thing. I would say that's it.

Chris Grainger: 56:45

That's it. Well, bro, you did great in the lightning round. The last question for you is going to be what do you hope that the guys listening, particularly guys that are struggling with pornography and battling what do you hope they remember the most from our conversation today? Justin?

Justin Smith: 57:00

yeah. Well, I would say twofold, let's do both. Is we got the guy that spirit of God is stirring in him saying, hey, listen up, pay attention, I'm talking to you. And then you got the guy that's listening to your podcast and go oh, thank God, I haven't looked at pornography 25 years. We got both these guys.

Justin Smith: 57:22

Let's start with the guy that is walking in freedom and sexual sins not affecting his life, especially the guy that has tasted in the past. You are free, but seven out of 10 of the men that come to your Bible study are not, and so only 7% of churches in America have anything in place to help guys get tackling sexual sin. 70% of men three quarters are struggling, but only less than 10% of churches have something to do with it. That's a problem. So if you're that guy, I would encourage you to reach out to me. Other ministries that you've heard of Start acquiring resources.

Justin Smith: 58:06

Take that step to be bold in your church, to be a resource for other men that are trapped. So, for guys, that spirit of God is stirring in them look, I'm not telling you that like beyond the line is like some sort of solution, but it definitely can be your first step, and I promise you, if I can't give you what you need, I'm going to guide you to resources that can. The hardest thing is making that first email, making that first call to break isolation. So isolation and shame are the two tools that the enemy will use to hold you trapped. So if you reach out, I've got the t--shirt, I've got the scars, I've got your story. You know, maybe it's strawberry, vanilla or chocolate ice cream, but we both have tasted ice cream so I can relate and we can guide you to mentorship and small groups or counseling, where, wherever we need to get you so you can be free and walk in freedom.

Chris Grainger: 59:10

Amen, brother, amen. Where do you want to send the guys, justin, to connect with you, the wonderful things you're doing at Beyond the Line?

Justin Smith: 59:18

Yeah, so they can go to beyondthelineministriescom and there's a contact form down at the bottom. They can send an email and that'll come to me. I can reach out to them and I love personalness. Like I'm going to talk to you, like it's not 50 people, it's not a recording, it's not a video. Like I'm gonna sit here in this same chair and I'm gonna talk to you and we're gonna figure out if I can help walk with you, if I can plug you into a small group and mentorship, or if there's a better ministry out there that'll be a fit for you. We're going to get you the help. So my encouragement would to be to just reach out, and so that'd be the thing I would leave them with Awesome.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:05

You guys, you know. You know the URL. We'll make sure that's in the show notes, justin. It's been great. Keep doing it, keep pushing back. I mean, you're in a battle that is worth fighting, brother, so hats off to you. We'll be praying for you and beyond the line for the future. Thanks, brother, appreciate it, man.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:25

Most men are fighting battles. No one sees Strained marriages, silent wounds, pressure to lead without a place to rest. That's why we created our community to help build strength, sharpen and support brothers just like you. And now it's even easier to join than ever. We've lowered access to just $15.99 a month. Immediately, you'll get our daily spiritual kickoffs, our Bible studies, lion Lunches, friday Forge and so much more. Every man needs a stronghold and you don't have to fight alone. Join today at thelionwithinus that's thelionwithinus and get started today. All right, guys, I told you that would be a good one, so be sure to go out and check Justin's resources there.

Chris Grainger: 1:01:12

The question that we want to think about as we leave here is what small compromises have gone unchecked in your life. Again, no one ever wakes up one day and you're just completely addicted to hardcore pornography. It doesn't happen. It's small compromises and checks and bends and weaves and next thing, you know you're there, right? We don't want you to be there, we want to help you. So if you're, if you've listened to this entire episode and you are feeling a conviction, don't just suppress it. Do something with it, even if you just want to head over to the line within, dot us, connect with us so we can start helping you.

Chris Grainger: 1:01:51

We have some pornography resources as well. Outside of what Justin's doing, justin obviously he's 100 percent focused on that we do have a pornography. I'm just a guy dealing with pornography. I think it's called battling pornography and the Bible app. So you may want to check out some of those resources as well, but we're leaning into this all the way, so we need you to just come back and tell us how we can serve. Okay, so all those resources are found at thelionwithinus. All right, guys, have a great day, come back on Friday. We'll have some good fun, friday tips for you and a couple of dad jokes. How about that?