Chris Grainger: 1:38

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, fellas, this is your meat episode. We're going to get right into it, okay? So the scripture of the week this week is Psalm 23, verses 5 and 6. It says you prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil. My cup overflows. Surely, your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. So, guys, if you didn't get a chance to listen to the spiritual kickoff episode, go back in your podcast feed. It's the one right before this one where we take a time to try to simplify and apply this to your life. Okay, that's all. When we look at scripture, how do you apply it? That's the biggest deal, right? So, as a reminder, we do this Monday through Friday within our Lion Within us. Okay, guys, you got to head over to the lionwithinus and get started, because if you need that little spiritual boost every day, we're ready to serve. All right, now for this episode. I'm super pumped.

Chris Grainger: 2:37

Okay, this guy, his name is Charlie Watkins. He's a Christian husband, he's a father, he's a grandfather and he's a leader. He came to Jesus in 1980 while serving in a nuclear train as a nuclear train officer, rather on board of a US Navy cruiser. So he left the Navy in 1982 and has held several senior leadership positions in many different businesses, and God has rescued, he's healed, he's mentored him through many trials, including cancer he talked about that a little bit Open heart surgery, as well as some business failures and successes, fellas, okay, so he's coming from a position of, he's been through it, he's done it and he's leaned in hard. So his heart's desire is to impact the most important truths to men so they can find success as husbands, fathers, leaders and really change the trajectory of their lives.

Chris Grainger: 3:34

So, fellas, what better alignment than the line within us? I mean, this is what we are all about, right, trying to get out from behind the false narratives that are out there and encourage you with the truth. So sit back and enjoy this fun conversation with Charlie Watkins. Well, charlie, welcome to the Lion Within Us. How are you doing today?

Charlie Watkins: 3:55

I'm doing great, Chris. It's a pleasure and honor to be here.

Chris Grainger: 3:58

Oh man, it's so exciting to have you with us and looking forward to unpacking your book. And before we get into any of that, share something fun about you that maybe not many people know about.

Charlie Watkins: 4:10

Well, I grew up as a surfer in Southern California. I grew up in a Navy family. You'll see that story in the book. But I was in Southern California many times as a young man, which is why I got this bandaid on my nose, because I I'm paying for the sins of my youth being out in the sun so much. But, um, yeah, I I'm a, you know I'm. I'm an active guy. I like athletics, I like I like sports. I play with my grandsons, who are, who are also getting better than me at everything. But, um, uh, but I enjoy being outside, enjoy the property and getting out in God's creation and just being in all of his creation. So, happily married and five grandsons.

Chris Grainger: 4:53

Man. Here he is and he said Navy. So thank you for your service.

Charlie Watkins: 4:57

Thank you.

Chris Grainger: 4:58

I went to school at Old Dominion so I had lots of Navy buddies down there in Norfolk. So I'd love to hear a little bit about that journey.

Charlie Watkins: 5:07

Well, and of course I've spent almost 40 years in Norfolk where I'm still the CEO of a company's headquartered there. I go back and forth to Norfolk about twice a month, to Norfolk about twice a month, and so I know ODU well and Blythe and I were very involved in getting Young Life put into ODU, which has been great for their ministry there. Yeah, the Navy was central to my family. My father, as I say in the book, is deceased now but he was a Navy four-star admiral and was the top admiral in the United States Navy during four years of the Reagan administration. He had a brother who was a Naval Academy graduate and a kind of a famous fighter pilot in the Navy. My mother's father was a Naval Academy graduate and was a three-year cruiser skipper in World War II in the Pacific and retired as an admiral. And I've got uncles and it's just a lot of people who have service in primarily Navy. And then I married into an Army family. My father-in-law was an Army four-star general, believe it or not. I mean when I was dating Blythe in high school he was a colonel and then an early general. But so I've had a lot of background in the military and so in my family, it was kind of not a big deal to go to the Naval Academy. Right when I got to the Naval Academy and found all these guys who their parents, were just in absolute awe of the fact they were doing this hard thing and they were making these, doing this sort of mature decision, you know I looked around and said, hey, this is very encouraging. But I, you know, in my family it was kind of like, well, why don't you do something different, you know. So, anyway, I went to the Naval Academy and spent five years in the Navy's nuclear power program and and then and then left for business.

Charlie Watkins: 7:02

After that, when I felt like the Lord really released me and I'd sort of checked that block in my mind, I probably went to the Naval Academy to please my father, even though he told me I didn't need to go. Right, we all do that. A lot of men do that for their dads. I miss my dad a lot. He was gone a lot at sea. A lot of men do that for their dads. I miss my dad a lot. He was gone a lot at sea. I thought, if I go to the Naval Academy, like my dad did, in fact, I'll major in what he majored in, then I'm probably going to be happy because he seems happy. You know the way an immature mind works through wounds and hurts. It wasn't until years later when the Lord released me from that and I left the Navy and began a business and the Lord began doing some works of healing in my heart and in our marriage and really transformed and changed the trajectory of our lives.

Chris Grainger: 7:53

Yeah.

Charlie Watkins: 7:54

Wow.

Chris Grainger: 7:56

What an incredible story. I mean it sounds like again. Was it how intense I got to go back to your wife's father. Was that pretty intimidating with him? How did that work out for you?

Charlie Watkins: 8:07

Listen, she was the youngest of four girls. Okay, her three older sisters all had gotten married before I married Blythe, and they kind of, you know, got the keys to the car from the dad on Friday night. They went through all that stuff and when I came along they were kind of over it and they treated me like the son they never had. I just, you know, my father-in-law, my mother-in-law, was great. One time at the Naval Academy, blythe and I broke up because I was being kind of a pill and her parents wrote to her and said hey, we think Charles is the nicest young man you've ever brought home. Be careful, don't get rid of him, you know. So her parents probably saved our engagement, which then became our, you know, almost 48 years of marriage now.

Chris Grainger: 8:58

That's wonderful, what a wonderful story. So I mean I'm so excited to have you here and again, the service you have to our country and your leadership, and you know you're gracious enough to send me a copy of your book and I'd just love to kind of walk through that, some of that, with you, because I know you put so much effort into this. But what take us to the call? What did God give you the call? Okay, you need to do this.

Charlie Watkins: 9:21

Well, I've been leading men's groups for many, many years and of course I've. I've been Well, no, of course, but I have been in leadership, even reluctantly. I've just. The Lord has just dragged me into positions of leadership really for almost my entire adult life, from the first time I was assigned to a division aboard the board the nuclear cruiser I was assigned to as a naval officer. They gave me the biggest division. They didn't give me the most technical one, they gave me the one with the most people problems. So I've always been a people guy and really for the last 25 years I've been a hardcore sort of a CEO's president and had a lot of people important to me, people who I grew to admire and love and try to take care of and really help in their careers. So leadership has always been the game for me.

Charlie Watkins: 10:15

And in my men's groups I realized after the Lord encouraged me, really told me to write finish this book. He used the word finish because really I'd started it 10 times and I'm sure there are many people that do that. I'm not an author, I'm a businessman, but I know how to write generally well, I can communicate with people. So because you do a lot of writing in business, but I looked at all the teachings, chris, and it was amazing how many questions men have about trying to make their lives work and they're always about this same stuff. They're about marriage, money calling purpose, career calling purpose, career transitions, should I leave or should I stay? When is a boss so much of a jerk that I can just quit? Can I quit now, charlie? And I would start.

Charlie Watkins: 11:10

Increasingly as I got older and more experienced, I had more and more men come to me and say, almost just grab me and say, just tell me what to do, because I'm stuck or I'm in trouble or I don't know what to do or I hate my job but it pays the bills. And all these questions about life and making life work. And I found out because I remembered how the Lord rehearsed in my life the answers to these questions. I sort of boil it all down to these seven things, like, if you get this stuff right, you put this stuff in place, I call it a platform. You put this platform in place, you're going to be really good shape. You're going to, you're going to have, you're going to be on the Lord's team because he's already on yours, right, but you're going to be on his wavelength, you're going to be on his frequency, you're going to be in his partnership and stuff's going to start to work better.

Charlie Watkins: 12:15

And it's amazing to me that in the complexity of life, how simple some things are. You know, a man will come to me and say I got to get a different job. I said why do you have to get a different job? Because I don't make enough money. I said how much more money do you need? He said $5,000 a year. I said you need $5,000 a year to make your whole thing work. He said the whole thing works at $5,000. I said tell me what you're doing with your money. He said what do you mean? I said well, you start with a tie. Oh, I can't afford that. So we start and we say look, if you want that five, do you like your job? I actually like my job. I feel a call to it. Well, let's not jump then, let's figure this out.

Charlie Watkins: 13:05

So the idea of helping men understand God's model in that particular case, in money, other cases, marriage, how to treat your wife, how to listen to the voice of God, basic but essential things. You find that they're the answers to most of people's questions, and I use the word. I said I wrote the book for men. I really wrote the book for leaders. I've had a lot of women read the book and loved it, but I wrote the book for men because I wanted to write chapter five. And chapter five is how to love your wife as Christ loved the church, and a lot of men don't have good models and they need someone to tell them that this is how you treat your wife, this is how you're careful with her. She's not one of the guys she doesn't like to be joked about. This is how you care for her, because this is what Christ, this is what Jesus does for you as part of the church, and that blows a lot of men away. Chapter five does, but a lot of the book is just written to help men make their life work. And then they realize and the book is a surprise ending what they were really looking for all the time, of course, is exactly what they end up getting. They get the blessings of God, they get favor, they get direction, they get guidance, but they also get him, and they find out that he's the real prize, right, and that's what we've all found, and so I call it the blessed bait and switch at the end, but it builds beautifully to the story and the book has got about 15 personal stories in it and I weave them in with scripture and with great stories from the Bible to try to encourage men to be to walk in the inheritance that Jesus paid for.

Charlie Watkins: 15:07

Don't leave any chips on the table with God. He paid too dear a price for us to sort of half-bake this thing, and so I'm telling that all the time. I said you know, if you give me your biggest goal and they'll say something like related to career or finance or position in the community or owning their land, or something big their kids launched their marriage successful they'll give me all their goals. I said give me the biggest one you got. They'll give it to me and I'll say do you know that your inheritance in Christ so subsumes that? In other words, it includes that, but it's so much bigger and it also feeds your soul, it also satisfies you, it also encourages you. It also challenges you as a man. You, it also encourages you. It also challenges you as a man and it calls you up to this great thing God has for you, and you got to walk in that and your goals will be fine. They're going to get taken care of along the way. They're just.

Charlie Watkins: 16:16

All these things are added to you. They're actually byproducts and people. They look at me with big eyes and I said I'm serious, you've got to walk with God in partnership. He has all that for you and a ton more. And boy, I've lived it and I've learned it. And so I get excited for men. When I get excited for men at one particular thing, it's very important.

Charlie Watkins: 16:42

I say this today. I don't know why, but you know people say come up to me sometimes and they'll say I got a money problem. I'll talk to him about the time. And I get two reactions. One of them is I got to do that, charlie, you're right, I've got to put this in Jesus hands. I got to do that, charlie, you're right, I've got to put this in Jesus' hands. And will you pray with me to do this right now and to do it well? I said I'm all in with you.

Charlie Watkins: 17:10

And I got another man that comes to me, same question and I give him the same answer. He says you know, I can give a little bit over here to the church. I got 2% here and I can do this or that. And I look at him and I say you know what? You shouldn't give anything to the church if you're not going to tithe. He said what? What do you mean? Something better than nothing? I said buy yourself a car, do anything you want with the money.

Charlie Watkins: 17:39

God has a model. If you don't want to follow the model, don't follow the model. He's kind of black and white on this, bill. He's kind of black and white on this. It's not. He doesn't want you to do 2% or 3%. No, just put that in your kid's college savings. And they look at me, like, and then they come back. Maybe I hope they come back, but they don't always come back. Sometimes they come back a year later or six months later and they say, okay, I know you were messing with me, you're right, I need to get on with the tithe. Or they just say, no, I don't like the tithe, I like worship. I like worship, I like this particular group I'm in. They're very supportive, I like to do this. And they've sort of gone through the cafeteria line of God's model and picked their entree and I just so.

Charlie Watkins: 18:41

Here's the guy I wrote the book for. I wrote the book for the guy who's hungry and ready. I wrote the book for the guy who says Charlie, just tell me what to do. I want to make this one. I've been through enough trouble. I've been through enough pain to know that when I've managed my life, it has not been ideal. I didn't pick the timing right on decisions. I made this decision. I probably should have made this one. I was in charge. I don't want to be in charge anymore. I said I can work with you, and that's the guy I wrote the book for. The guy who's ready. He's ready, he's tried his own stuff, he's been in charge, he's been in control and he's acknowledging okay, there's got to be an alternative to this and the great news is there's a wonderful alternative to being in control of your life. Amen to that.

Chris Grainger: 19:38

Amen. Well, guys, we're going to take our first break. We'll be right back with Charlie. I've got something big to share. We're making a major shift because we know the battle is real and it's time more men had access to the support they need. For too long, guys have been trying to carry the weight alone pressure at work, tension at home, wounds from the past in a world that demands strength but offers no place to rest. We see it, we've lived it, and that's exactly why we built our community. It's a stronghold, a place where warriors can find rest, truth and a band of brothers standing beside them. And starting now, we're making it easier than ever to step in. We've lowered the barrier to just $15.99 a month. That means, for less than the cost of a drive-thru lunch, you can join a brotherhood that's centered on Christ and built for growth. Inside you'll find access to our daily spiritual kickoffs every Monday through Friday, our Lion Lunches, our Bible Studies, our Friday Forge Gatherings all that and so much more. Every man needs a stronghold and you don't have to fight alone. If you've been waiting for the right time to jump in, this is it. Go to thelionwithinus and join the community and see for yourself what happens when iron truly sharpens iron.

Chris Grainger: 20:54

But, charlie, I'm very curious. You set the stage very well for us here. You know 100%, guys are ready to lean in. I love how you even start by asking questions and sometimes it's like I find it's very interesting that, guys, it's hard for us to even find the space, the places to ask the questions that really are meaningful to us. Because asking a question, you know, around some of these topics of time, money, gifts, relationships, identity, that that creates a level of vulnerability. Guys, you know we don't like to be, you know, be exposed to any areas of our weaknesses. So how do you help with guys just to get past that first step of asking the good questions, the important questions, in a safe way?

Charlie Watkins: 21:39

Well, boy, oh boy, questions are so powerful. I think questions are very disarming. I think somebody said it really wisely last week when I was in a meeting. They said it this way. They said you know, Jesus didn't lead with information, Jesus led with invitation. He always followed up with information, but he led with invitation. In other words, wouldn't you like to see that there's an alternative to life? What if there was an alternative to being in control? What if there was an alternative that actually had a guarantee associated with it? What if there was a better way to do this and get you all the dreams of your life in exactly the right measure at the right time? And people are looking at me.

Charlie Watkins: 22:33

Really, is that kind of too good to be true? I said, well, it's good and it's true. So you lead with questions what's the most important thing to you? What are you scared of? Men, like everybody, have fears. And if you can get what men are scared of, I'm scared of not pleasing my dad. I'm scared of failing. I'm scared of letting my family down because I'm not providing enough for them. I'm scared of not being there because I'm too busy with my work and my hobbies. I'm scared I'm not going to measure up. These are the fears of men and there's a healing deep within the heart that God has for every man as we walk with him. So men say, well, I'm gonna go to do this healing thing and I'm saying that's wonderful, I did.

Charlie Watkins: 23:35

I had that beautiful experience as a young Christian people who, to whom I owe a great deal of debt, but don't stop walking with Jesus. You got to talk with him every day. You got to make him your partner. You got to walk alongside him. So I came up with a model for the book, because business guys love models, because it helps explain complex things, and I came up with this model of walking with Jesus around an agricultural circle and we have all between us and our inheritance between us and a devil-filled world. Between us and all the enticement of the the world stands Jesus when we walk with him and he doesn't let anything come inside that partnership that he isn't aware of, that he doesn't have a design for good. So I tell men all the time I said, whatever you do, keep walking with Jesus, keep talking to him, lean towards him. Don't sit back and wait for him to do. He wants to do this with us. He's all in on partnership.

Charlie Watkins: 24:53

When he fed the 5,000, he didn't feed them. The apostles did. They participated in the miracle of multiplication. You know, I'm an engineer undergraduate and I did the math on that and I tried to imitate handing out food to 5,000 men, not including women and children, so call it 10,000 people Conservatively, with 12 guys handing that out, because he gave it to his apostles. They remember they had 12 baskets full left, which probably was one basket per apostle. So they're taking something out of that basket and handing it out, but it keeps reproducing within the basket. They never the basket didn't empty, remember. Remember, until they fed everybody and there was 12 basketfuls left over. I estimate it was about two and a half hours minimum minimum of handing out. That's how long it takes 12 people If you just keep doing it. Fishes and loaves, fishes and loaves, fishes and loaves. It's not coming off a conveyor belt. It's being handed out by 12 guys. It's work. It's not coming off a conveyor belt. It's being handed out by 12 guys. It's work.

Chris Grainger: 26:01

It's work.

Charlie Watkins: 26:02

And I say to men well, what do you think happened in their hearts during that? Were they in awe? Every time they opened the basket and pulled it out, it was refilled. It was still all there. It was an ongoing miracle for a matter of hours.

Charlie Watkins: 26:18

And Jesus is saying to us men, look, I got all that for you. Watch me multiply, but let you, you'll be able to see it, you'll do it with me. I'm going to show you some stuff that you've never seen before about multiplication. But you got to give me your loaves and fishes. You got to put them in my hand because I'm the multiplier. You'll be able to be participating in the distribution, but I'm the multiplier.

Charlie Watkins: 26:51

And so when I tell men, bring your resources to God, and they say, well, you know what are you talking about? Money? I said what do you got? What do you got? You got wounds? Bring them. You got hurts Bring them. You got fears? Bring them. Bring all your resources, the ones you think are worthless, the attitude you had towards your dad growing up, the things you were ashamed of, bring them to God. Of the things you're ashamed of, bring them to God. Bring them to Jesus and say will you take these and will you bless these and will you break these, which is really another word for healing, that's right and then will you multiply them back to me, and I've just seen so many miracles of Jesus doing this in men's lives, where weaknesses became strengths and hurts became powerful, powerful things in their lives that weren't possible apart from his breaking and blessing, but then became the fuel for fulfilling their callings. In other words, they found out that the very hurt and fear was necessary for them to fulfill what God had for them when it was redeemed, when it was healed. And that is amazing to me, still amazes me. Those stories amaze me. In my own life and other men's stories.

Charlie Watkins: 28:21

I put a story in the book about one guy who had a harsh father really harsh, tough dad and he shamed him every time he would lose a wrestling match and he'd say you're a loser, my son doesn't lose at wrestling. He didn't care if the guy was 10 pounds heavier than him, two years older. If he lost a wrestling match, his dad would shame him and his dad was tough on him and he went through a lot of problems because of that relationship. He was angry, he took off, he wasn't nice to his wife, all sorts of things. Well, god got a hold of him and he brought those experiences to Jesus and Jesus began to get to the root of the problem and began to heal him over a period of years. He almost lost his marriage, he almost lost his family. He almost lost his career. Everything was restored, yeah, and multiplied. His marriage today is beautiful. He has.

Charlie Watkins: 29:28

You sit across from him at a restaurant, like I describe in the book, and you see a man whose strength is enormous because he had been, he's been through so much pain and yet he's got all this courage now and he can come along, a younger man, and say it didn't matter if you lost that game. Today, son, let me tell you what's really important. That's right. So, chris, I'm just sorry I'm so full of words today, but my heart's full for men to bring these. I call them the hidden strengths. They're in there, that's right. They're in, and the only the only one who can heal him is jesus, and union with jesus christ is healing. But it doesn't happen like that. Sometimes it does. Sometimes he'll do a miracle and do it fast. My experience is most of the miracles with god in the, in the issues of the heart, take time, that's right, I love where we're going with this.

Chris Grainger: 30:25

I'd love to also hear from you you have seven strategic imperatives here, and which one? Let's just pick one. What's the most difficult for you to write? I'd love to know on that one.

Charlie Watkins: 30:39

Well, clearly the most difficult one for me was authority, because I was angry with my father and I was angry with him because he was gone most all my life. I never remember I put in the book, I never remember not missing my dad. Now, we loved our father. We was one of six kids but my dad was at sea a lot. He was gone 20 of the first 30 years of his marriage at sea and of course that was most all of my childhood. And when he would come home he was a very busy man. He was clearly an anointed man for leadership for the nation and he was in strategic role after strategic role after strategic role and we moved constantly.

Charlie Watkins: 31:22

I made 10 school moves in 12 years. My sister made 12. And that enough. You'd look at me and say, well, charlie, you probably damaged goods.

Charlie Watkins: 31:34

Well, the Lord used all those things to shape a new man in me, where I learned as I humbled myself, asked my father to forgive me for my attitude, which is the story of thrown out rocks and the introduction that things began to put, go into place and I understood all this realm of authority under which God blesses and favors and protects and provides, and it has to do with these. All these areas under God is, of course, the big under authority. It's relinquishing that throne of our heart to him and then under all those, all the under gods. All the rest of them are about, they're all about being under God. How you defer to your boss, how you defer to your father, how do you defer to government authorities? Stop criticizing the president. Stop criticizing the president. It's against your own interest. Every time you're prompted to criticize, turn it intercession, turned into intercession for prayer, and you're and you're. So.

Charlie Watkins: 32:50

For me, the authority challenge was real, because I was mad and I was immature and I was undeveloped as a young man growing up into manhood. I didn't have an initiation, I didn't have a drawing out, I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have a guide, I didn't have a present father who would say son, hold the racket like this. Well, let me show you how to start this lawnmower so you don't burn yourself. You know, just simple things. My dad was just gone and yet he was a wonderful guy. We loved him. I would dare say we worshiped him. He was so fun to be around when he was home. He just wasn't home very much, so I got mad at him as a teenager and I kept that into my early twenties and it really was holding me back. So authority was the big deal for me. But when the father forgiveness thing happened, all the other authorities were easy by comparison. And I find most men I'd say one or two, maybe one out of 10, maybe maybe two have good fathers, who they, with whom they communicate love, and they but most of the rest of us need a little extra help. Amen to that. And so I think authority for me was the big one.

Charlie Watkins: 34:24

Identity, of course it drives everything. You're under authority so you can hear the voice of God. But when you're under authority, guess what you find out. You find out who you are, because now you know who you're not. So you find out who you are. And when that identity thing starts to dawn on you, oh, my goodness, look who Jesus says I am, I am to him, I am in him. Well then guess what happens. The voice of God doesn't sound so silly anymore. And now when God speaks, you say well, I used to think that was stupid.

Charlie Watkins: 34:59

Like, well, listen, what was Gideon's reaction? What was Moses' reaction? Oh, you got the wrong guy, that's right. Well, you know what? That's an identity issue. So when men come to me and said, you know, in my heart I've always had this desire to do this thing, but you know I'm not really very good at that, I said hold it there, just hold it for a second. Maybe you are, maybe it's just an undeveloped strength, but don't discount the voice of God. You just need to know how you fit into that command. And that's the identity question which is so powerful. So you know, I think those were. Those are big ones.

Charlie Watkins: 35:41

Certainly had to learn how to love my wife as Christ loved the church. Somebody told me how to deal with the tithe as a very young man and with not a lot of money, and that changed changed the trajectory of my life. So they're all valuable, but the authority was the hardest for me. I find for most men, dealing with the issues of their dad is very, very tricky because some of them are still scared of their fathers. There's still fear, there's rejection.

Charlie Watkins: 36:14

It depends on the ages, but I usually deal with men between sort of 30 and 50. Sort of 30 and 50. And a lot of young men kind of hitting that first career getting pretty tough. Busy life at home, kids are in sports, a lot going on. Opportunity for promotion? Should I take it? We're going to move to a new city? Those kind of pressures, man? This is why this platform being in place is so important, because you can hear the voice of God and you can know that God isn't silly, demanding. He's not the harsh God that you see in the response to the man who got one talent. He isn't, he's the generous one. And yet all that baggage has to come off, and it usually comes off through authority and identity 100%, 100%.

Chris Grainger: 37:14

We'll take our next break, guys. We'll be right back and continue. With Charlie, we're making a big change that I think you're really going to enjoy. I spent a lot of time thinking about our spiritual kickoffs and, honestly, I love doing them each week, so much so we started doing them live every Monday through Friday inside our exclusive platform. And here's the best part We've decided to give full access, completely free, so now you can join our daily spiritual kickoff space at no cost. Every day, we go live to read the word, to encourage each other and find simple and powerful ways to apply God's truth to our lives. You'll even have the chance to engage with me directly, and if you missed a live stream, don't worry. The videos are posted the same day so you can catch up whenever it works for you. This is exclusive behind-the-scenes content that is not available anywhere else, and now we've removed every excuse. So if you're ready to get started, head over to thelionwithinus and grab your free access today. Let's grow together. So, charles, I am curious on the authority piece too.

Chris Grainger: 38:33

Something we talk about a lot with the Lion is lots of guys. They do have some form of a father in their life. Usually, the father has taught them the basic things sports cars, how to change oil, all the things to be a man. A lot of it comes down to work. Our fathers teach us what it looks like to work. You don't get up to go to fun, you get up to go to work. That's been brought into it.

Chris Grainger: 39:00

The thing that seems to be missing in a lot of guys that I connect with and work with it sounds like maybe you as well is the spiritual leader. You know, sometimes that gets, oftentimes that gets put on mom or women in the church. You know, and we're learning from the feminine side and there's nothing wrong with that because those, those ladies, somebody had to pick up the ball. We dropped it. A lot wrong with that because those, those ladies, somebody had to pick up the ball, we dropped it a lot. So I'm just curious are you seeing that same type of narrative with some of the guys that you're working with of, hey, I know I'm called to work and not this stuff's important, but how in the world do I take this thing called the bible and apply it to all these different areas? I just that's the gap that I feel like, for the lion is most salient. I just love to get your insights.

Charlie Watkins: 39:43

Well, I couldn't agree more with you. I think it comes back to identity, because if you understand who you are in Jesus Christ and I talk to men like this In the book I really talk about what I call the last name, who Jesus says you are. You used to be. My name is Charlie Watkins, but God gave me a new last name Christian, beloved, favored son. I have a new last name. The same last name you have Chris.

Charlie Watkins: 40:13

Well, what about your first name? And God also has a first name for people. You know he gave Jacob a new first name. He gave Abram a a first name for people. You know he gave Jacob a new first name. He gave Abram a new first name and that name was connected to a call. That name was connected to a purpose. That name was connected to a spiritual mantle of authority.

Charlie Watkins: 40:38

So when I talk to men about their name, their identity, I say, look, you can recite all these things about who you are in Jesus Christ and man, it's going to change your life. But there's more and you won't be able to walk in the full inheritance of Jesus Christ, what he died and paid for for you, inheritance of Jesus Christ, what he died and paid for for you, unless you can pick up this mantle of authority. That is related to a spiritual call. So it can be subtle, it can be slow, but the key, the key I've found with men is this test Do you pray with your wife?

Charlie Watkins: 41:21

I've found with men is this test Do you pray with your wife? If you can pray with your wife, I think you can do anything, because it's not because that's so difficult, but it means you must understand something about authority, calling marriage vulnerability, two heirs equal in Christ. There's so much in praying with your wife and so if you pray with your wife, not let her pray for you, but pray with her. You both pray. When you can become, you can move into that relationship. That's usually the test that says, okay, I'm beginning to take up my mantle of authority. But it's a big deal, chris, and I think it's a big hole in the church right now. And men need to be men, but somebody's got to initiate them, and the people who initiate men are not necessarily their wives. They need to be other men.

Chris Grainger: 42:26

We have to be reminded too. I've been teaching the prayer to your wife things for a couple of years now with guys, and sometimes they turn white as a ghost when I bring this up. They're like, no, I don't want to do that, maybe do something else. I'm like, no, bro, let's start there. But at the same time it's convicting, because that's an area where I often fall off. It drops and the next thing, you know, I stopped doing that. I need to pick that back up and it's just like so. We need that constant reminder, that refinement, that iron, sharpening iron, to hey, how are you praying with your wife right now? Sometimes it's that little reframe. Oh yeah, that's where I've gotten off.

Charlie Watkins: 43:03

Yeah, well, you know what men are really good at and this is the encouraging thing for men in situations where there's something they don't want to do, men are really good at not quitting. There you go, because that's something they saw in their dad. Most dads some dads checked out and quit, but not very many. That's a different bit of healing, right. Most dads knew how to work and in fact probably had their identity tied up in that work, right? But you know, I was talking with a man in my one of my men's groups actually is in the current men's group and he he had a very difficult time in marriage and it was his own doing and he had a wonderful wife and he had three kids and they were young. And I met with him and he was completely broken. He didn't know what to do and I said we're going to talk about some things today. I'll with him and he was completely broken. He didn't know what to do and I said we're going to talk about some things today. I'll call him Bill, that's not his real name. I said, bill, we're going to talk about some things today. I'm just going to ask the Lord to reveal to you what's really needed here. But I know one thing, one thing, and if you don't, if you will tell me you'll do this, I'll hang in there with you. He said what is it? I said never quit. If you quit, I'm out. Tell me now you're not going to quit. He said I won't quit. I said now this now roll, roll the clock forward about 18 months.

Charlie Watkins: 44:39

He came to my last men's group last friday morning. He comes about every second or third one Cause he has a job that requires early Friday morning. Sometimes he's in the food business and he just came up to me afterwards he said I'll never forget what you told me. It made all the difference and he's got his, his, his, his. His marriage is back together, his kids are beautiful, they got baptized and he, every he looks at me he gets tears in his eyes and he's he and he he's grateful for to me and I love that. But really, and he knows, he did one thing in partnership with Jesus Christ and that was not quit and he got good counsel, he got good help.

Charlie Watkins: 45:24

But yeah, the most important thing he didn't do was quit, and I think men have that in them. That's a very man thing and it's good. It's for most men. Most men don't quit, and so if they can just hang in there, they can learn stuff along the way. They can learn to be less harsh. They can be a little less directive. They can be a better listeners. They can learn stuff along the way. They can learn to be less harsh, they can be less directive. They can be a better listeners. They can learn to ask questions. They can learn to humble themselves. They can learn to be quiet when they should be quiet. They can learn to speak when they should speak. That's a big one for men. Don't quit, it's a big deal.

Chris Grainger: 46:00

I'd also love to get your insight because quitting so many times I've seen guys quit when spiritual warfare gets real. So I'd love any personal stories or insight. Maybe you face some personal spiritual warfare putting a book like this, because a book like this the evil one. The last thing he wants you to do is get this out to the world. So I'm sure you went through things, because I go through it all the time. With everything we do at the Line, it pisses off the evil one. The last thing he wants you to do is get this out to the world. So I'm sure you went through things, because I go through it all the time, because everything we do at the line pisses off the evil one. So I'm used to it. But I always people who are not walking with the Lord. They see this spiritual warfare and they're like what is this guy talking about? So how would you explain that?

Charlie Watkins: 46:37

Well, what I've come to learn, which I know you agree with, chris, is that our lives don't make any sense apart from the context of war. They just don't. They don't make any sense because you can look at who God is and as you find out more and more about who God is, you say to yourself well then, this be going on in my life, right, and the only answer to problems in life and a holy, perfect God with perfect motives is warfare. And when you start to realize, okay, I will accept this context of war, in other words, I'm being opposed. Now, what do I do about it If you can get a man to say, look, I'm not saying there's a devil behind every tree or under every rock, but there's plenty of opposition.

Charlie Watkins: 47:39

So I walk men through in the book, a very practical reality of temptation. I said let's unpack temptation. Temptation is not sin. Temptation is a fleeting thought that comes to your mind. Maybe it's around hatred of a person, maybe it's around lust, maybe it's around something. It's just a picture. When you get a sense of this and this is what I tell men this is very seldom taught in the church. Even my own pastor finally taught it because he read my book and he said I was really convicted by this. I said how long do normal temptations last? 30 seconds to two minutes. That's the typical temptation of the enemy. Usually not even two minutes. Temptation of the enemy usually not even two minutes If you're deploying the weapons of 2 Corinthians, 10, 4, and 5, not the weapons of this world, not ignoring it, not positive thinking, but no weapons designed for spiritual warfare, to tear down strongholds and take on anything that puffs itself up in the face of God. So I tell men, I said first of all, you're going to have this and of course, the great aha for most men is when they find out other men are the same temptations. It's not so powerful anymore, but I think spiritual warfare is so essential to the context. It's not everything, but it's the context within which we live and move and are opposed by God.

Charlie Watkins: 49:11

There's no question this book was opposed. In fact, even the day it was published, september 10th last year, it was like I don't even know what all these sort of oppressive thoughts like, why don't really know what all this? All these sort of oppressive thoughts like why did he even bother doing this? No one's going to buy this. You know it was expensive to produce. I got one email hey, charlie, I read your book, couldn't believe it. Chapter five blew me away. How'd you know that? How'd you know that was for me? Next day I get one text message Every day.

Charlie Watkins: 49:49

Every day, the Lord gives me some encouragement to say this is why you wrote this book. In other words, another man or another woman reads it and said you had me in mind when you wrote this book. And I'm humbled and I'm reminded that that is happening in the face of opposition. So you move towards your wife, you tick off the enemy, you move towards any element of ministry where you're trying to reach out and help others. You're going to be opposed. So people say well, I'm serving God. Why isn't this easier? And I said because you're serving God and he's not your opposition, he's your encouragement. But your warfare is real. And I also think, like not quitting, men can learn to be, or are, fighters.

Charlie Watkins: 50:49

I didn't grow up as a fighter, I grew up as a runner. I had a lot of years in Southern California and I used to have. There was this one big Mexican kid who was kind of a bully. At lunch he would pick up. He would pick on one guy to beat up every day and I'll tell you what. You ate your lunch with one eye open, right and I. And I was a fast runner and when I saw Andy, a Chevrolet turned towards me, he can have my sandwich. I avoided him the entire eighth grade year in Redondo Beach, california and I consider that a great victory in my life.

Charlie Watkins: 51:33

But but so you would say, well, god, that was kind of cowardly. Oh, no, no, you should have seen the size of Andy Chevrier. That was just wisdom. You know, I didn't have any slingshot and stone to take this guy down. He was the real deal. He was a tough guy and Andy was probably a softy inside. He probably had a hundred hurts and probably had a mean dad, but he was kind of a bully. And I'm not a fighter, but the Lord and I'll say this to any man or woman listening to this God has made you to be a fighter. It's part of the call of the disciple of Jesus Christ. And the reason it's so important is because other lives, not just yours, hang in the balance and you got to fight for them, because the enemy hates Jesus in you, hates, it, hates him.

Chris Grainger: 52:30

So well, guys, we're going to take our last break. We'll be right back with Charlie. Life can feel heavy and too often we try to carry it alone. At the Lion, within Us, we build a Christ-centered community where you can go, connect, grow and be encouraged by brothers who get it. And now joining is easier than ever. We've lowered access to just $15.99 a month. Inside, you'll unlock our daily spiritual kickoffs, our Bible studies, lion Lunches, friday Forge and, most importantly, a space to be real. Remember, every man needs a stronghold and you don't have to fight alone.

Chris Grainger: 53:14

To get started, visit thelionwithinus. We'd love to welcome you in. That's thelionwithinus. I'll see you inside. Charlie, this has been phenomenal. We always, towards the end of our conversations, we like to play a little lightning round with our guests, just to have a little fun. Get let our, let our listeners get to know you a little bit more. So if you're willing to play, we'll hop right in. As long as I pass the test, oh, I'm sure we haven't lost a patient yet, so you should be good to go. That's a good track record. So what's? Uh, give us a favorite hobby. What do you enjoy doing for fun? These days?

Charlie Watkins: 53:51

I'm I'm, I'm really just get outside, walk, walk with my dog, my dog. I raced triathlons for 10 years and I loved that, but I don't do that anymore and there's a story in the book about that, making transitions in life seasons. But we live on a magnificent piece of property that overlooks the Blue Ridge Mountains. We've got a seven acre lake. My grandson caught a seven pound big bass on the other night, nice, and so I just I love to go outdoors. I work most of most of my days, I'm here if I'm not traveling and I'm here in this office and I just make myself get outdoors and see the Lord and talk to the Lord. But being outside is really, to me, is the most fun and the most life-giving.

Charlie Watkins: 54:40

Amen, you do any more surfing? I don't. I still have my surfboard from 1968. So there you go. It's the same surfboard I had made for me when I was in eighth and ninth grade in California. But I surf some. I surf some at Hatteras. I surfed some on the East coast. I've had an encounter with a shark, but that's been the last time I surfed. Was a friend of mine asked me for his 75th birthday. I was about 60. He said will you go surfing with me? This was in Virginia beach. And I said is it for your birthday? I'll go surf with you. So we went surfing and that may have been the last time I surfed, but, yeah, surfing.

Charlie Watkins: 55:20

Surfing is just a, just, just a beautiful sport, but it is um, um, uh. It's been more elusive to me lately, but my surfboards in the basement and it's still got wax on it If I ever need it. There you go, there you go. So, california kids, what's your favorite food? Got any any go-to's there? Oh well, I love, you know, mexican food is wonderful, um, but I, I'm, I'm partial to steak and potatoes. Uh, there you go. You know, I'm, I don't have a I'm. I like simple, delightful, and my wife feeds me beautifully high-quality, wonderful meals. But I'll take any of them, but I love them all. Food is not a problem for me. To me it's a celebration of life and I love all of it.

Chris Grainger: 56:08

There you go. How about superpowers? If you could have one, Charlie, which one would it be? How would you use it?

Charlie Watkins: 56:15

What a great question. You know, I don't know I'm part of an organization. It's on the book where I'm, on the board of ICM. In fact I just had a board meeting, last Thursday and Friday on our spring board meeting. And the superpower of ICM is its invisibility and it's behind the scenes, working with partners around the world to build now 13,000 plus churches. And so you know, a superpower of effectiveness without getting credit or glory. Wouldn't that just be. Wouldn't you just love to see the fruit without having to?

Charlie Watkins: 57:01

You know, I'm in sort of a public job, I'm a CEO. It's not terribly public, but you know people want to please you and they're very gracious to you. And you know I have wonderful people who work with me and they're so helpful and they're so kind. But sometimes I like to disappear behind the scenes and just make sure people got helped. And you know, I know I know a man well who's a very wealthy man and his philanthropy is almost a hundred percent anonymous and I can always find, see the markings of it when something has happened. I see it in the newspaper or see it online. And I know it was him because I know what kind of stuff he does. But I love that power. I love that superpower in him where he shuns the spotlight but he wants the fruit. He wants to see Jesus get the credit. He doesn't want the credit, but he wants to be the steward of the assets. So I think that would be my superpower.

Chris Grainger: 58:04

If you look back at the last 12 months, what did you spend too much time doing?

Charlie Watkins: 58:09

We always like to just talk about real things here to just talk about real things here, Worrying about tomorrow, Bringing tomorrow's burdens onto today, Learning, learning Haven't mastered it Learning to stop doing that with my calendar. There's this huge mistake we make as men and I've made it a hundred times. And you look, if you're a person that has a busy calendar, a busy schedule, you look at your calendar and you say these words as soon as I get through March or if I can just get through that week, I just get to Friday, yeah Now. And the reason it's such a deadly trap for men is they're not living in today with partnership with Jesus. And you, just I and I'm speaking to myself here and I have a close friend, a guy named Cal Walters, who who does a podcast called the Intentional Leader. I've been on his podcast and he's he's an army officer and a neat guy. He goes to a church with me and Cal and I have this kind of deal with each other. We both make this terrible mistake. We're overscheduled. We look at our calendars and we say, and we've learned to make a deal with each other, which is we're not going to do this anymore. We're not going to say, if I can just get to Friday, because that leads to a life of striving and indulging, striving and indulging. And we've got to walk day by day with Jesus and and I'm, listen, I'm, I'm in class, in class, on this one I'm.

Charlie Watkins: 59:42

And so I, I think, the the busyness of a schedule, because do you worry about those things? You know you've got an upcoming podcast with Chris Granger. Are you nervous about it? You had to move another meeting. You've got meetings afterwards. Are you going to be prepared enough? Do you have a mastery of the material? Should you go back and read your book again? Those kind of things. You just have to take that warfare and say, no, I am going to rest in the Lord. Today, Minute by minute, hour by hour, I'm going to take Jesus into the meetings with me. Minute by minute, hour by hour, I'm going to take Jesus into the meetings with me and I'm going to do this in partnership with him.

Charlie Watkins: 1:00:20

When a man does that, he's a settled man, he's a quieter man, he's a powerful man, he's also a heck of a lot more peaceful and he's less prone to be anxious, nervous, scared. So that's a really good question and I'll tell you what. I'm afraid I could answer that question if you'd asked me. What about the previous year I was the same answer. What about the previous year? But I'm learning to do it less and despite a busy calendar which the Lord's busyness is the stuff on that calendar is all good. There's no junk on there. I've taken a lot of the junk out of life. I'm doing the important things that I think God wants me to do, and so, anyway, that would be my answer.

Chris Grainger: 1:01:12

Thank you for the transparency with that, because lots of guys want to put up the facade. You definitely did not, so next question We've got about two more here. What's your favorite thing about God?

Charlie Watkins: 1:01:26

Well, that's really easy. He wants me to win, love it. He wants me to win, and I don't know anybody. I think I've met like I think my pastor wants me to win, love it. He wants me to win, and I don't know anybody. I think I've met like I think my pastor wants me to win, and I told him that once and I love him for it. But, man, I didn't have a lot of people in my life who wanted me to win.

Charlie Watkins: 1:01:46

I mean, look at Jesus, his own brothers and his mother and the reactions in his hometown. Isn't this just the guy, joseph the carpenter's son? And you know you don't grow up with a lot of people that want you to win. You know you have a lot of people putting their like this, saying I wonder if he will be successful. Well, he's. Oh, that's not a good decision.

Charlie Watkins: 1:02:08

You get a lot of judgment, but God wants you to win and he wants you to win in the best possible way. This is the beauty of, I tell men, proverbs 10, 22,. The blessing of the Lord brings wealth and he adds no sorrow to it, no trouble to it. It's a beautiful scripture because we have dreams and goals and aspirations and in some circles. The church says oh, that's bad, you shouldn't have aspirations, you shouldn't be ambitious, you shouldn't be driving. And I tell men the opposite. I said bring those ambitions to God, put them in his hands. He's got great things for you, but he's got them in his time, in his way, and they'll blow you away when they happen, if you walk with him in partnership.

Charlie Watkins: 1:03:03

But God wants you to win and I mean the grace thing is just too much, it's too. It's so good, it's so good and he's so dear and he's so just right all the time for the situation. His gentleness, his strength, he wants you to win and I almost just can't still talk about it because I just I know what I deserve. But it's not my unworthiness that gets me, it's his incredible love and his intentional direction for my life. So he won't let me stay wallowing in my own. I'm sorry for my. I'm just a worthy, unworthy sinner.

Charlie Watkins: 1:03:55

He says okay, we've dealt with that. Now. That's called the cross. Now can you come forward? I'm going to bring you up, I want you to see. Come up to this mountaintop. Look at, look at all this, look at this view, see all that land. That's what I want to give you. That's right. And men just struggle with that because we're unworthy, we're fearful and I just say you just just let the lord hold your head and look at that horizon, right? He's got it all for you and he wants you to win.

Chris Grainger: 1:04:25

So what's your least favorite thing about the evil? One kind of flipped that question, you know 180.

Charlie Watkins: 1:04:34

Oh, that's also easy. It's the timing of temptation. Oh yeah, you know. Early morning, late at night, right Just before you go to sleep, tired Yep. His timing is unfortunately effectively impeccable from his perspective. But I find it the most annoying. And if a man is wise, he then says stop, I'm taking authority over this realm and I'm not giving this ground back to the enemy. I tell men in their morning quiet time take the territory back from Satan and don't let go of it all day long. That's right.

Chris Grainger: 1:05:19

That's right. Last question for you, Charlie. This has been so great. What do you hope the listeners remember the most from our conversation today?

Charlie Watkins: 1:05:29

Boy. I pray that they'll remember that there are keys, keys, I think about a key opening a door maybe an old door, maybe an old door on a shed and backyard, but there's. It's rusty and it's, but it's the key. You found it For some minutes forgiveness of their dads. For some men it's loving their wives and willing to pray with them. For some men it's recognizing that there's spiritual warfare is needed because we're opposed.

Charlie Watkins: 1:06:04

But I want, I guess the thing I want men to realize is there is a key. There is a key and it's not a mystery to God, and if you walk with partnership with him, he'll show you the key. There is a key and it's not a mystery to God, and if you walk with partnership with him, he'll show you the key. And if you get that key, you unlock that door and you begin to enter a new realm we call the kingdom of God, where the rules are different and the measurements are different and the blessings are different and the satisfaction level is different. So I want men to remember today that these seven things that form a platform are very, very important and they're all important. But I've found that with men they're all important, but something in there is a key, and boy is that a thrill to be engaged with men leaders who then say, Charlie, I found it. You won't believe it, it wasn't that hard, but I found it and I know that now I'm back on track again. That's very exciting to me, Chris.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:09

That is that is what, charlie. This has been absolutely phenomenal. Where do you want to send guys to to connect with you to get a copy of the book? You know what have been all the places to find your resources. The?

Charlie Watkins: 1:07:20

easiest one is Amazon. It's thrown no rocks. You held it up earlier. It's a blue as this youthful guy chucking a rock on the front. The subtitle is a man's guide to success through partnership with God. It's on Amazon. It's on thronorockscom Thronorockscom. You can find it there. Those are the two best places, and so enjoy. If you've got a big group and you want to do it with your men's groups, I'm happy to provide discounted copies and help you get your pastor on board, or something I can occasionally do some speaking at bigger groups. Just because I'm still a full-time CEO, I have a little bit of a limited schedule, but I can get around, and so find me. It's a good read. It's got a wonderful, surprising ending. It's it's a written in a very engaging style, uh, and it's easy to read. I've had hundreds of people tell me this was really, really easy to read. It just flows like a voice.

Charlie Watkins: 1:08:28

I also did record it, if you're an audible guy okay, I got audible nice it's on, it's on, it's on it, it's in in the, in the, in the audio format, and it's my voice. I recorded it last summer. So anyway, I, I, I, I, I, I, I commend it to you and I bless you with it.

Chris Grainger: 1:08:47

Well, charlie, this much for coming on. It's been an honor. We'll be getting this out. Check out the links in the show notes. Guys, this will be our fun Friday book of the week as well, so just be on the lookout there.

Chris Grainger: 1:09:03

Charlie thank you so much for coming on today. Bless you and bless the line within. Most men are fighting battles. No one sees Strain marriages, silent wounds, pressure to lead without a place to rest. That's why we created our community to help build strength, sharpen and support brothers just like you. And now it's even easier to join than ever. We've lowered access to just $15.99 a month. Immediately, you'll get our daily spiritual kickoffs, our Bible studies, lion Lunches, friday Forge and so much more. Every man needs a stronghold and you don't have to fight alone.

Chris Grainger: 1:09:40

Join today at thelionwithinus that's thelionwithinus and get started today. All right, fellas, I told you I was going to be a good one, so thankful for Charlie for coming on, shared so many fundamental, wonderful truths for us. The question I want you I was going to be a good one, so thankful for Charlie for coming on, shared so many fundamental, wonderful truths for us. The question I want you to leave to think about is are you living from a place of abundance or fear? Abundance or fear? If you have a choice you can make to dabble in either one of those, I think Charlie really unpacked some great truths for us to recognize and to lean into. And again, throw no rocks guys. Wonderful resource for you. Thank you for listening. Look, if you could, if you would just do me a favor head over to the line withinus. We've changed a lot. I'm just going to be honest. We've changed a lot with how we're doing things at the line within us and I want you to see some of the things that we put in place okay, from our mastermind focus, because that's really where we help guys lock in and get that counsel to the different things within the community.

Chris Grainger: 1:10:41

Fellas, we have so many ways that we're serving. Of course you can head over and get to. If you're on the Bible app search for the Lion Within Us, you have all the different Bible study plans that we have out there. Hundreds of thousands have been downloaded. At this point. It's been just unbelievable to see how God is moving in that platform. So that's a great way to connect with this For our YouTube channel.

Chris Grainger: 1:11:02

We have lots of growing subscribers on our YouTube channel but, fellas, we connect and we help, but we can actually come together. So thelionwithin us is where you find all those resources. Connect with me, have a good conversation with some of our guys. It would be an honor to go check it out. You want to give us a rating and review? That would be awesome. Thank you so much for that, and look, we'll see you again on this Friday, prayerfully, good Lord willing, for our fun Friday episode. We're going to unpack some really fun tips, a couple of dad jokes and obviously you know a book of the week too, but hint, hint, you probably already know what that is. All right, fellas again after. Thank you so much for listening and remember, keep unleashing the lion within.