Chris Grainger: 1:01

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, chris Granger, let's jump in. All right, guys, it's your meat episode. I'm excited to be here with you. Let's get into it. Okay, so the scripture of the week this week is in the book of Proverbs, chapter 18, verse 16. It says A gift opens the way and ushers the giver into the presence of the great Guys. I spent a lot of time unpacking that one little verse. I know it's small, but it's a ton of insight right there and the last spiritual kickoff episode. So hopefully you get a chance to go back in your feed. Check that out. I'm hoping that you'll be encouraged by it and, if you are, we do these reflections on scripture every day within our Lion Within Us community. Go check it out at thelionwithinus to get started. Okay, all right. Now for this episode.

Chris Grainger: 1:47

I had a wonderful friend, robin Tooth. He came in. He's an executive coach, he's an author, he's a founder of a really successful leadership development firm, and Robin created this. He wrote the book rather the Reluctant Disciple and this is a wonderful parable, if you will around embracing our faith and our business when sometimes we don't want to. And I mean he's just. Robin has a tremendous insight that he brings from his Pioneer Distinct Code of Leadership Index, a workplace survey for top leaders that really talks about the implications of how successful leaders frequently question a critical aspect of our leadership. And as part of this work, he's also done more work. He founded the National Confident Leader Week. It's an annual nationwide initiative that aims to enhance leadership effectiveness by better understanding how leaders question their abilities, manage their doubt and cope with those experiences.

Chris Grainger: 2:46

So let's just say this, guys Robin, when it comes to leadership, he's done the training, he's put in the hard work and he brings a ton of wisdom in this conversation. I know you're going to be blessed. I know you're going to be encouraged. Hang around to the end, his answer. You know, guys, I always like to ask the question about what are you struggling with? His answer around what he's currently struggling with was the most authentic, just transparent, quite frankly vulnerable answer that I've ever heard. Doing this, doing the line for as long as we've done it. I think you'll be blessed by the answer, I think you'll be encouraged by it and I'm hoping that you'll find a little bit of hope and encouragement in your faith journey just by hearing Robin and his insights. So enjoy this conversation with my friend, robin Pugh. So, robin, welcome to the Lion Within Us. How are you doing today?

Robin Pou: 3:41

Doing great. Thanks, Chris, for having me Really excited about our time together.

Chris Grainger: 3:46

Oh, me too, for sure Looking forward to it. Absolutely love the book. Before we get into any of that stuff, tell us something fun about you that maybe not many people know about.

Robin Pou: 3:57

Gosh, that's a great question, which I was not prepared for. The first thing that came to mind is that I love wake surfing, but I'm no good at it, and so I really enjoy it. My brother has a boat and he's very good at it, and so during the summers I live in Dallas and we've got a lake house. It's about an hour outside of Dallas, and I'm just a water guy. In fact, our last name is Pew, it's spelled P-O-U and it's actually Catalan, which is that kind of northern part of Spain, and it means well as in, like a water well, and when I discovered that meaning, I was like oh, that makes all the sense in the world, because I'm just this water guy, I always love being around water, and so, anyway, something that should be fun is wake surfing, and I wish I was better at it, but I love it, and so I don't know why. That was the first thing that popped into my head, especially since we're filming this in November, which is pretty far from the lake. But there you go Wake surfing.

Chris Grainger: 5:01

Man well, it sounds like just a fun time on the water with family and friends anyway, so it can't go wrong there.

Robin Pou: 5:08

Well and just I think some of my fondest memories of we've got three kiddos and the wake surfing is so fun because you can sit right there on the back of the boat and the person who's surfing is, you know, eight feet maybe from you, and so you've got the music going, you can have a conversation with them. You know we like to play their favorite, you know walk up, you know song when, when they're in the pocket and just having the whole family in the boat, I mean it's just it's a fun time. So that is probably why I like it so much.

Chris Grainger: 5:45

And you've it sounds like you've also mastered a rule when it comes to water is you have either a family or friend with a boat. That's the best means of boat ownership right there is having friends and family with it, so you don't have to deal with that.

Robin Pou: 5:54

Yeah, exactly, you don't need to own a boat, you just need to have a brother who owns a boat.

Chris Grainger: 5:58

Yeah, that's right.

Robin Pou: 6:07

I mean, they say the best two days are the day you buy, the day you sell it. So I don't know. I mean I'm not really a boat guy, but you know well, I have some kayaks. That's about as far as we go. Yeah, I'm swimming downstream from the favor of my brother who is in the joyous boat ownership world that's it.

Chris Grainger: 6:16

That's it well. Robin absolutely loved the book. The reluctant disciple. When I was talking to my wife I was like you know. You know, I read so much nonfiction, I get so many books from authors out there and I'm grateful for all of them, so it's really cool when I actually just get a fictional story that I can just dive into. I'm not trying to find five ways to a better this or that. Let's just read the story and see where it takes us. How fun was it just writing a parable like this?

Robin Pou: 6:45

Yeah, you know well, first of all, thank you for committing the time to read it. That's a, that's a real honor. And, um, you know, I would say it was fun and not fun. And what I mean by that is, you know, we'll. We'll talk later about just the inspiration for the book, but I thought that I was going to write a personal memoir of this personal event.

Robin Pou: 7:11

That happened and I ended up chatting with a book coach, a person who was kind of counseling me on how to, you know, write the book and think about it. And he said well, what's the purpose of the book? And the purpose of the book is to really inspire and motivate men aged 33 to 65 to have a fully integrated faith, not just a faith on Sundays, but literally all throughout the week, even for those guys who are called to the marketplace, not called to vocational ministry, right. And he said well, based on your personal memoir, you're telling me that in order to motivate them, they have to be fired, they have to go on a missions trip to Kenya, they have to have a machete to their neck, a gun to their head and almost die in a ditch. That's what you're going to write about, which is this personal story and you expect them to be getting on the field for God.

Robin Pou: 8:04

And I was like, yeah, and I immediately saw the flaw in my logic, because somebody might read the book and at arm's length it's interesting, but it may not catalyze them to really want to get on the field for God, because there's a lot of challenge and drama associated with this story. That was my personal experience. And so I looked at this guy. I said, okay, big shot, what's your idea? And he said a fictional parable. And I was like, oh, okay, great, that'll never happen Because I don't have a background in writing a fictional parable. What am I going to do? Just make this stuff up. So when I say that it was fun and that it was not fun, that wasn't really the fun. It wasn't fun for me to do something that was outside my comfort zone, because I mean, think about it.

Robin Pou: 8:57

I'm going to write this book that I've never written, this genre, this format, et cetera and I'm going to publish it and I'm going to push it out to other people. And then they get to decide thumbs up, thumbs down, four star, five star, zero star, like I'm really going to do that. So I think the fun part of it was it being done. And now this part where you and I get to have a conversation. You happen to have liked the book, praise the Lord. You know, it's just. It's like with anything in life If you're going to put yourself out there, it's a risk.

Chris Grainger: 9:32

Amen to that. Well, I'm so glad that you leaned into it and sound like that coach gave you some wonderful advice, but you gave our guys a little bit of a teaser that we got to unpack. I mean, you said you mentioned machetes, guns and, you know, knife to your neck. So share a little bit there. You can't just leave that hook line without giving the guys a little bit of insight there. Robin, yeah.

Robin Pou: 9:53

So you know, I would classify myself as a reluctant disciple. So the title of the book is true in the sense that, you know, born and raised in the church, sitting in the pews most Sundays, doing the best I can to lead my family in the faith, but definitely not sold out for God, and he started working on me in the 12 months leading up to this Kenya missions trip, which is the inspiration for the book, and I was basically asking myself, ok, I've, I've had some early success in business. I feel like everybody's catching up to me and this is all just in the sort of lies in my head. Right, this is an actual reality. And you know, and this is all just in the sort of lies in my head, right, this isn't actual reality. And you know, is this? It Like I'm going to just work for the next 30 years? And this is it Like. Certainly this can't be everything.

Robin Pou: 10:53

So God started working on me in the 12 months leading up to this missions trip and we ended up in Kenya, in a village at the base of Mount Kenya, five hours from Nairobi, and we were going to be there for about 10 days on this service project and in the first night we were coming back out of the bush to the tarmac road to our hotel or Africa for hotel, the Blue Towers Hotel, and our two vans got stopped by a rogue band of thugs and I just thought it was sort of a you know rogue police like hey, give them their $400 and you know they'll let us go.

Robin Pou: 11:33

Well, that could not have been further from the truth.

Robin Pou: 11:37

They basically held us against our will for about an hour, hour and a half.

Robin Pou: 11:42

We, our watches and our phones, like we had no, no way of knowing you know our time Right, and they verbally brutalized us, like they were telling us exactly what they were going to do to us. And then they physically brutalized us and they were particularly harsh to the Africans who were with us, both the expats from the United States that had come with us on the trip, as well as our in-country hosts and to watch other people be battered and beaten because they were trying to negotiate with these men on our behalf, because we were basically the guests and they just they physically brutalized them and they messed with us pretty mightily. But I don't even like to say that that's the case because, by comparison what they were doing to the Africans that were with us was pretty horrible, and at the very end they did this weird sort of police pat down and they laid each of us in the ditch by the side of the road. You don't have to watch too many movies to know that the ditch is kind of the last place.

Chris Grainger: 12:51

Right.

Robin Pou: 12:52

And there were some other things that happened that made me realize, wow, like, like, this is real. I'm just little Robin Pugh from Dallas, texas. I was literally in my own bed two nights ago, like how have I been transported? And I am now face ground into the red dirt of the Kenya land. I immediately thought of my grandmother. She passed away six months earlier. I was going to be at the pearly gate. She was like hey, what are you doing here? Because 50 years should separate my entry into heaven and hers, which only punctuated the reality that I was going to die in the ditch.

Robin Pou: 13:29

And the whole time I had been praying save us, save us, save us. And I realized that, oh, my gosh, the purpose of my life was going to be my death, because in my death, the whole world was going to know about 13 Christian missionaries who otherwise were killed in otherwise peaceful Kenya at the time, and that God might use that light to eradicate this evil that was gripping us, right, that was gripping that region. They knew we were coming, they were lying in wait for us and I just said, well, gosh, lord, I would love it if I could live and I didn't trade my life. I didn't say, oh, if you save me I'll do this. I just said, if this is your plan, lord, I submit to it and I give you my life. Right here in the ditch, like that was what I was compelled to do, immediately felt this transcendental peace that I probably will never, ever, experience again and I started saying the Lord's prayer. And I got to do not. I said deliver us from evil.

Robin Pou: 14:34

And my buddy, john from the other van had come over me. What had happened was a set of headlights was coming down the road and had spooked the bad guys off. So we scrambled, we put everybody into the two vans. First van was disabled, pulled everybody out, shoved 13 people into a six person van. I'm the second to last person to be in the van. The headlights are catching up to us and those headlights pass us. And I'm looking at the red brake lights of an all-white delivery van Minutes before I had been praying deliver us from evil and here in the gap between us and the bad guys, was a delivery van.

Chris Grainger: 15:12

Oh, my gracious.

Robin Pou: 15:14

We'd see no cars going in, no cars coming out. There's no homes, there's nothing to be delivered. In the middle of the bush at 1030 on a Wednesday night.

Chris Grainger: 15:22

Right.

Robin Pou: 15:23

And God had sent this all white delivery van. We didn't know if they were good guys, bad guys. We didn't stick around, we spirited away and there's a whole nother kind of extraction story. But the point relative to the book that's so powerful for me was in my own personal debrief. I said, OK, God, let me get this straight.

Chris Grainger: 15:44

Purpose of my life is my death.

Robin Pou: 15:45

You miraculously saved me by sending this delivery man. First of all, kudos to you, good job. Appreciate that, right, that's right. But second of all, ah, what's the purpose of my life?

Chris Grainger: 16:10

no-transcript.

Robin Pou: 16:18

Wow was meant to inspire other guys to be sold out for the Lord and live a fully integrated life, and yet what you have in front of you is the reluctant disciple, which is an every man journey.

Chris Grainger: 16:33

Right.

Robin Pou: 16:34

So you can put yourself in the shoes of the protagonist and not hear about my story.

Chris Grainger: 16:41

Wow, extremely powerful. Robin, guys, we're going to take our first break. We'll be right back. We'll keep digging into this with Robin.

Chris Grainger: 16:51

I don't know about you, but I used to find Mondays really rough. I would find myself trying to reset for work, trying to get my bearing on the family calendar, trying to find time for my own spiritual growth and development, and often I found myself overwhelmed or just flatly ignoring aspects of my life that I know are meaningful to me. What I learned was that if I had immediate access to important and impactful spiritual topics and reflections to start my week well after the allure of a Sunday sermon has passed, I would set my whole week up to be more meaningful and for the opportunity to make a true impact. If you think that getting such a boost would help your week to get started on the right foot, we would love for you to sign up for the Weekly roar, which is our newsletter that is produced by the lion within us. Each week will deliver a powerful reflection and practical steps to help you apply scripture with clarity and purpose, all being rooted in light and truth. So in just a few minutes, we hope to arm you with insights for living out biblical leadership with confidence and strength and maybe even have a little extra bounce in your step. If that sounds useful, head over to thelionwithinus slash ROAR to sign up today. That's thelionwithinus slash RO? R to get your weekly roar today.

Chris Grainger: 18:28

So, robin, I know lots of guys when I because I too when I read this and we talked a little bit before we went on air about you know what captured me the most of the story and I kept coming back to the idea of reluctance and and and gifts for some reason. I'm just thinking reluctance and gifts. And God gives us these gifts and we're supposed to steward those gifts well. We're supposed to use them, but man, the evil one, has a really good way of just having us paralyzed in fear and doubt, insecurity, and I read that throughout Peter in the book here, the reluctant disciple. I'm just curious. I mean, is there any specific moments? Obviously that was a big one in your journey. Where do you think guys are feeling that reluctance and what helped you? Or rather, what would you tell them to encourage them to move forward past that reluctance into the gifts that God's given them?

Robin Pou: 19:21

Yeah, so that's, that's a big question.

Robin Pou: 19:25

Um and as much as I think my reluctance was born out of not really knowing the promises of God, like, do I know what he's telling me about who I am, who he is and what the nature of our relationship is? Because if I go to Joshua and he said, robin, I have plans for you, I have plans to prosper you and not harm you, well, guess what? I've been in a ditch with a machete to my neck and a gun to my head. What do you mean? You have plans for me, not to harm me, right? But he's not saying that we're not living in the world, a broken world for which there is hardship. What he's saying is you are mine and I am going to do my work, says the Lord, in and through you, and I'm going to use you in your weakness so that my glory, I may get the glory.

Chris Grainger: 20:23

Mm-hmm.

Robin Pou: 20:25

And so if that's a promise or a truth of the Lord, then I can step forward much more confidently, with much less reluctance, because guess what, the burden's not on my shoulders.

Chris Grainger: 20:39

Mm-hmm.

Robin Pou: 20:40

But here's the problem. I got to go into the marketplace every single day and guess where the burden is Burden's on my shoulders, right. I got to go into the marketplace every single day and guess where the burden is Burdens on my shoulders, right. I got to do what I'm supposed to do so that I can get the paycheck that I'm supposed to get, so I can pay the mortgage and I can buy the groceries and I can lead the family. It's all on me. So now you're telling me to change my entire paradigm, that what I'm supposed to be doing in this realm of reluctance or obedience is not on me and I'm just supposed to step forward. This realm of reluctance or obedience is not on me and I'm just supposed to step forward. That's a real different paradigm.

Chris Grainger: 21:17

Earthly responsibilities versus the heavenly responsibilities of obedience, right, right, and I think sometimes too for lots of guys, and maybe we can touch on this if you like. You know you mentioned trying to bring that idea of discipleship encompassing not just when we're spirit filled. On Sunday, we just left a wonderful sermon from church where we're full of the spirit and we're ready to go to, you know, storm the gates of hell with a squirt gun. Right, it's easy to feel like we're doing it there, but, like on Wednesday afternoon at two o'clock, you just got pounded in a meeting and you have all these deadlines, you have all these responsibilities. It's easy at that point for that faith to go to the side and you're just like God I got this right now and I'll come back to you when I get this done and I'm just like man. That's such a missed opportunity. But this is the way so many guys see this and I felt like, when I was reading this and just talking with you, that's a mindset you're trying to shatter. It's like we can't separate these things.

Robin Pou: 22:12

Yeah, someone once told me you either are a missionary or you need a missionary. And there's no shame in the latter, because every single one of us has come to a saving grace, a saving belief in Christ, because somebody saw fit to share the gospel with us.

Robin Pou: 22:28

We've all needed a missionary. But then, if that statement is true, then we are a missionary. Well, for those of us who are not called to vocational ministry, where does that leave us? Well, we either believe that we are planted right where God wants us at this moment either he's right or we're right, meaning I shouldn't be here, this isn't what I wanted, this isn't where I'm supposed to be or God's right and say I can use you right where you are.

Chris Grainger: 22:58

Right.

Robin Pou: 22:58

And and I'm not talking about the situation where somebody has found their purpose and they love their job. I'm talking about the people who are really challenged with where they are in the marketplace right now, because they've got a boss that they don't like or work that's not enjoyable. And so are we either submitting to God's plan for us right where we are, because if we're not, we're agitated, we're discontent, and that muddies the transmission of what God's calling us to do in that moment. So you're saying getting punched in the gut in the meeting on Wednesday? Well, if he causes things to happen or allows them to happen, why did he allow that to happen? For you to get punched in the gut?

Robin Pou: 23:42

Fair enough, and so if I'm discontent with my circumstances, I'm not asking that question. Okay, Lord gosh, that didn't feel so good. What do you want me to know, see, understand about that situation, and how do you want to have me move forward on your behalf in that situation?

Chris Grainger: 24:00

Right. But that also that takes a level of understanding in your own journey to where you get to the point of surrender. And if, when you get to the point of surrender at that point, I feel like at that point then God's ready to use you. Ok, you surrender your plans to his plans, now we can move forward. And I felt like when I heard your story of you in Kenya, I mean that's pretty dramatic point of surrender. Like you, you're there, bro, no doubt about you are surrendering. But then you're there, bro, you know that about you are surrendering. But then you know the story here with Peter, or just story in my life where you know things are just falling apart, like when you get to the bottom, when you're at the bottom, you got to look up. I feel like so many times, guys, we just that idea of surrender. It makes us sound so weak versus there's so much power that comes when you do fully. Just, you know what I'm surrendering it all to you, lord.

Robin Pou: 24:49

Every single one of us is either going into a ditch in a ditch, or coming out of a ditch, and so this concept of the ditch is meant to be a metaphor for every single one of us. None of us, at whatever age that we've gotten to, has gotten away scot-free from being in a ditch.

Robin Pou: 25:08

And if so that's his invitation to say are you going to be a humble enough in your heart to where, with your free will, you're going to choose to submit to me as Lord of your life?

Robin Pou: 25:22

Every single one of us has had that invitation. Some of us have reluctantly said no over time until we're in a ditch and literally I said okay, fine, yes, you have me. I don't want to have to learn that lesson again. But to your point is that his power, the power that raised Jesus from the dead, is in us. So if we submit to the Lord, there's no way that that is the definition of weakness, that is the definition of power, resurrecting power. And then Jesus says to us you will do more on this earth than even I did, which I can't even fathom. So we either believe God's truth inerrant word of God in scripture or we don't. And I think that just goes back to when did I, when did I stop being as reluctant as I was? That caused the title of the book, and it's when I got to understand more fully what God said is, says, is true, about who I am, who he is in our relationship.

Chris Grainger: 26:22

Right, right, a couple of themes that constantly were coming through the book, because I just love how you tied in the husband and wife that were ministering. But it made me think about community and the reason why we it's such an important role in all of our lives, particularly if we're trying to move past that reluctance into action and maybe give some insight on what that community looks like for you, or what do you see that community looking like? What are some areas some guys need to be paying attention to in their own journey in regards to their own community, so that they can be doing the work that God's calling them to do and being equipped to walk when sometimes it's not as easy as just taking step one.

Robin Pou: 27:06

Yeah, I love that you picked up on just the community.

Robin Pou: 27:09

That was written into the book, because that's absolutely an element that helps us be less reluctant. So we're lousy sources of truth for ourselves and so most of us are walking around feeling less than what we think we actually should be by way of our performance or our identity, et cetera. Well, if we feel less than then we're not that interested in disclosing that or revealing that in our relationships with our wives or with a community group. So the fact that you're bringing that up, I think, is such a powerful comment about the power of that environment called community to be able to share those things, because until we say it out loud, we're just going to let it rattle around inside of us and it will create the lies of the enemy and the fear and the reluctance, and the fear and the reluctance.

Robin Pou: 28:09

So when I mentioned that in the 12 months leading up to the Kenya trip, god was working on me, he had placed me in a Bible study that was really more of a community, where the guy who was discipling us was like I want to get to know the scared little eight-year-old boy that's inside of you. So this was not just a Bible study per se, it was a discipleship eight-year-old boy, that's inside of you. So this was not just a Bible study per se, like it was a discipleship two-year experience.

Robin Pou: 28:33

And that's where I really understood the power of that community to build us up in the truth of who we are, distinct and different from everybody else, not the same, but just starting to break down some of those lies that the enemy tells us about who we are, that we believe that are not true, and so that was really powerful in my story, and then part of a couple of men's groups today, both that I'm facilitating and leading, but also a part of and just communicating in a way with them. That's that's authentic and genuine, which is, you know, difficult to do for a lot of us.

Chris Grainger: 29:17

It's very difficult. I mean, this is one of the primary reasons I even started lying with Dennis Robin, to be honest, because she didn't have this in my life, and the men's groups that I saw, and were part of it's very surface level, very blessed and highly favored type of talking. You know where you're not really talking about the true struggles, the true areas that you're trying to overcome, and also the you know, just you know practical discipleship. And I'm just curious for you what does that practical discipleship looks like?

Chris Grainger: 29:49

Because I mean to be a disciple is one thing, but it needs to be this and you have to. You're usually being discipled by others, by learning from others, and you know, having a lot of pause in our, in our, our path that we can learn from, that can speak life into us. But I just feel like this is such a blind spot for guys. I'd love to get your. What does this look like for you?

Robin Pou: 30:08

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I wanted to do in the book was to showcase an experience of the protagonist, this guy, peter Christensen, in relationship with Peter and Mary, uh, with, uh, jim and Mary. So he ends up, these two good Samaritans, and one of the and one of the best blessings that I've received from people who have shared with me about the book is that they've never been in a discipleship discussion like what is presented in the Reluctant Disciple book from Jim and Mary to Peter, and so I just came at it from a very plain spoken perspective. God kind of speaks to me, not in Christianese or any sort of lingo, and one of the very first conversations that they have is okay, wait a minute, is God smarter than you or are you smarter than God? And I had never really heard it talked about that way, but that's the way it made sense to my brain which in the Christianese languages?

Robin Pou: 31:13

Are you God of your life or is God the God of your life? What does that even mean? It's like, wait a minute, who's smarter? Because naturally you're going to submit to the smarter right, and that's really what Peter kind of had to wrestle with. So when we're talking about discipleship? I think it's just normal general conversations, but to your point it has to permeate beyond the news, weather and sports, and so if we're not willing to be vulnerable and share something that we wouldn't otherwise share with somebody, then we're not really having a discipleship conversation, because I'm not being authentic with you.

Chris Grainger: 31:54

Right. Where does failure play into that, though, robin? Because this is where I feel like so many guys. You feel like when you show up with a group of other brothers, like it's always, you know you're talking about the things that are going well, or maybe you're encouraging and I'll get it there's. There's need for encouragement. I'm not saying we don't need a bunch of barbuses in our lives. I'm just saying, if we surround ourselves but nothing but encouragement, like at some point we're going to have blind spots and we need to be able to to have people to speak into it. But when we do fail and we need to have courage enough to not be reluctant to hide that and just to come and say I'm blessed and highly favored, everything's going well, it's OK you need to have a few guys maybe not the whole church, but a couple of select guys where you can bring those failures and just be open, authentic and transparent. I'm just curious why do you think that would help people deepen their faith rather than, you know, just keep being resistant?

Robin Pou: 32:49

Well, you know, we don't like to fail. I mean, we're in an achieving society, and if you're not, we laud success, we do not laud failure. And so I run a leadership development firm. So get up, dust yourself off and let's get to work. What he birthed out of that was the fact that I used to build businesses. Now I build into the leaders who build businesses, and so the work that we do is spending a lot of time understanding where's your wisdom coming from.

Robin Pou: 33:19

Well, your wisdom is typically coming from your failures. Try something, don't get the result. Learn something, try again, don't get the result. You know what we call failure. Not you're a failure, but failure to achieve the objective. So if we're not sharing our personal failures, I'm blessed and favored. And you're like, well, I suck at this and I failed. And they're like, oh well, we'll pray for you, right, exactly Because it doesn't start a contagion of everybody else offering their failures, because I don't want you to talk about your failures, because then that sets the expectation that I have to reveal mine, and I didn't. I'm not down for that.

Chris Grainger: 34:07

Right.

Robin Pou: 34:08

So what do we do? Like, where's the environment? Cause, this is all protection. Like we, we we've got a. It's all protective. So either you're smart about how you're going to protect yourself or God's smart about how he's going to protect. I'll give you a perfect example.

Robin Pou: 34:25

So we sold our company and we're moving all of these families and there was a warehouse employee who was amazing, amazing Reggie. And the company that was buying us wasn't going to give us any dollars to move Reggie because he's an hourly worker. When we get to Nashville, then you know we'll just hire somebody else. So I said well, wait a minute, can we, can we get him a loan from the bank that the acquiring company works with, and that way he'll have the funds to be able to move and his salary will be the security for the loan? I was like yes, absolutely. So we go to the day of signing the loan and they say, well, mr Pugh, you need to co-sign the loan. I was like no, I don't, I'm his employer, you just garnish his wages for whatever the loan payment is. And they're like well, we're not going to give it to him if you don't co-sign the loan. I was like, okay, what up?

Robin Pou: 35:12

Well, 18 months later, the acquiring company shuts down our business. Guess who leaves Reggie gone. A month later, I'm still licking my wounds that they shuttered our business and it was like, hey, you owe us, you know, $3,200, the outstanding note for Reggie. I was like no, I don't. And they're like, yeah, you co-signed the loan. Well, guess who hadn't told his wife that he had co-signed a loan and hadn't told her that it was $3,200. So I'm left holding the back. Right, good deed completely punished. Right, no good deed goes unpunished. In Proverbs, many years later, there's a verse that says do not co-sign a loan.

Chris Grainger: 35:56

Yeah.

Robin Pou: 35:57

I read it so plainly I think it was the NIV and I was like what? Like there's counsel, there's truth in the Bible and I went afoul of it and I'm holding the bag for $3,200 and got sideways with my wife and so that's a failure, that scripture. If I were in community at that time somebody would say ooh, have you prayed about it? Did you know? In Proverbs it says that you know, don't co-sign a loan. Says that you know, don't co-sign a loan.

Robin Pou: 36:25

Like we're not sharing our issues that we need to be praying over and we're not sharing our failures in a group setting that can otherwise help us move closer to understanding the Word of God and growing our relationship with Him and living according to His design.

Chris Grainger: 36:47

Man, you're all over right there, robin. I mean, I absolutely love your insights, particularly around this area and failures. Guys, we're going to take a quick break, we'll come back. We'll keep digging, because this is a fun conversation here with Robin.

Chris Grainger: 37:02

When I reflect on the kind of things that the men who participated in our discipleship masterminds had in the past, I am overwhelmed by the quality of things that the men who participated in our discipleship masterminds had in the past. I am overwhelmed by the quality of their comments and commitment to each other. Several of the guys commented that this was the most meaningful leadership experience they've encountered, and we even had one man logged into a discipleship mastermind while a hurricane was hitting his house. He was that committed and received that much from his peer group that he didn't want to miss it. Because of this extraordinary commitment and because it's a true gift and pleasure, we made them a core part of our community and we hope you might join us. We we sit up men with their own peer advisory group of seven individuals that meet every other week for 12 weeks. Each member shares areas they want to focus on, such as improving their prayer life, being more intentional with their wives or maybe shedding a few extra pounds Together.

Chris Grainger: 38:07

We help them strategize, make commitments, find accountability and learn. It's been our experience that most guys want a community of trustworthy men to share their ideas and create support for each other with, and it's been our experience that most men don't either create this for themselves or seek them out. So we do this because we want you to have that in your life, and all that is needed to begin winning is you. If this sounds interesting, check out our community to see the dates and times of when these different groups meet. Visit thelionwithinus to start your free trial of our community. To get started today, that's thelionwithinus, and I would love to see you lean in and tap into the power of our discipleship masterminds. So, robin, I do want to ask you one thing around when I read the book talk to you, talk to others. I talked to others a lot about this. It's around our comfort zones, and when I read this, I saw peter.

Chris Grainger: 39:17

He was very much you know, he's he's in the area where he he feels comfortable, that he's he's doing well, he's building houses, all the things are going well for him and for so many guys out there, they just really get they, they get comfortable. And the next thing, you know, they're reluctant because they are comfortable, because they're comfortable, we feel good. And I'm just curious how do you counsel and advise others to recognize when comfort is actually holding them back and how do we get past that, that beyond that? So I just just curious your insight here.

Robin Pou: 39:51

Yeah, and I might come at it from the executive coaching that I do with the leaders that I work with. I only work with successful leaders, which is kind of a funny statement. I don't choose them, they choose me. Meaning the successful leaders recognize what they know and they also recognize that there are things that they don't know and if they're going to grow then they've got to have somebody that is pushing them or giving them outside insight, because there's a whole set of blind spots that they don't know. And so when these successful leaders are coming to me they're raising their hand because they're saying I feel stuck Very scientific word almost to a person.

Robin Pou: 40:36

Everybody uses that word. I just feel stuck, and these are exceptionally successful on paper people, which is kind of who Peter and the Reluctant Disciple book is sort of patterned after His success is no mistake. The reason often that they're stuck is because they have moved into a place of playing not to lose. So to your point about comfort zone I've amassed all these things. I don't want to continue to take risks that might cause me to lose those. Is this comfort zone sufficient? And to a person they know it's so itchy that it's not enough, and I don't mean by material possessions, I just mean by fulfilling their potential, that they feel stuck Like I have all these things and I was successful and I got here.

Robin Pou: 41:29

But why? Why am I not able to move forward? It's because they're playing not to lose, where every point in their career up to that point they were playing to win, and so we work really hard that my approach to coaching is based on the principles of sports, psychology, deep science, simple at its core Thoughts lead to actions, actions lead to results. A lot of coaches in my realm are actions coach. Here's a framework for having a hard conversation. Here's how you approach a strategic discussion. I'm going straight to the underlying core, which is how they think, because every thought you have produces an action that gives you the result that you want or every thought produces an inaction that gives you a different result.

Robin Pou: 42:14

So wrote a book called Performance Intelligence at Work where all of this is laid out and basically, in this area of comfort zone you've got. The only place that you're going to learn is outside of your comfort zone. I call it the discomfort zone. The scientists call it the proximal learning zone, meaning that's the place where you learn stuff. So when you're learning, if you stay in that discomfort zone long enough, you'll end up in what I call the confidence zone, because now you have new information, new skills and you're operating at a new level, because you're playing to win, not playing not to lose.

Chris Grainger: 42:55

Amen to that. I mean so far as getting out in the uncomfort area, so far as iron sharpens iron and some people love that verse and this. You know they have, you know, all sorts of beautiful murals and things like that with this iron stuff, but when you think about it, that iron shrapnel iron is not comfortable at all. That's some difficult conversations. That's when you have to have some authenticity, some transparency, some vulnerability, and none of those words guys like, but that's usually where we grow is when we have those uncomfortable, real raw conversations.

Chris Grainger: 43:29

I just I wish it was more, it was more natural for, for guys in general, because I think it would really help us in our in our own discipleship journey.

Robin Pou: 43:38

Well, don't you think just if I, if I think about the way you just laid that out, I think that's the way God rigs it, and I use that kind of in a euphemism like he's made us strong and masculine and we are the leaders of our family and just like the lion that's on the wall behind you, there's a lion within us. And yet he's calling us, he's inviting us to do his work, which means that we've got to submit to his will, and then he's going to take us on this adventure that we couldn't possibly have authored ourselves. Make a choice to be part of his family, doing what he's calling us to do, because that's a much more authentic and adventuresome life than you know. The less than failure person that I'm refusing to reveal to anybody else until I crack and I can't or I pick up coping mechanisms that are not according to his design.

Chris Grainger: 44:48

Yeah, I know there are a lot of guys out there listening to Robin that maybe they're just discouraged right now and their head's down a lot. Maybe they're real quiet. When they're at church they're quiet. They don't bring up things. When they're at work they're just checking boxes, going through the motions, as you've already mentioned, playing not to lose rather than to win. So what encouragement would you offer those guys? From your own experience as a reluctant disciple, if you will?

Robin Pou: 45:18

Yeah, I had about two seconds for knowledge that that's where you were going with the question, and so I was sort of rolling through what I might offer. And what I'd rather do just for two or three, four seconds, is just invite everybody who's listening into kind of a listening prayer, because I don't want them looking at me and the encouragement that I can offer, because I think that would betray the great encourager who is God. And so just you know everybody who's listening to this. Wherever you're able, close your eyes If you're driving, please don't close your eyes but just let's sit for five seconds and let's listen to what the Lord has to say to us, to encourage us specifically. Let's just listen for a few seconds. You know just in that short period of time, Chris, what I'm getting, and we talked about this at the very beginning, before we took the air.

Robin Pou: 46:20

Proverbs 18, 16,. Which is a man's gift, makes way for him and ushers him into the great. And I love that verse so much because what that tells me is that God is before we were even born, as he was knitting us in his mother's womb. In our mother's womb, he gave each of us a very specific gift. There's a purpose for which we are on this planet, and I want to encourage people that that's true and that you're on a journey to discover what that is, if you don't already know. And what's so fascinating about that scripture is that it makes room for you.

Robin Pou: 47:05

Well, what does that mean? So imagine that there's a room full of a hundred people and the new person walks in and they have a unique gift that's given to them by God, and the entire room parts literally steps away and there's this huge open space where this one person is standing there. That room has been waiting for that person with that gift and they will part the seat, part the way in the room, so that gift in that person will see the light of day. Why would God give us a gift that he doesn't want to see the light of day? He will part ways in order for his gift through you to actually see the light of day.

Robin Pou: 47:52

Do you know what that gift is? Do you know why God's given you that gift? And are you spending time with the Lord just listening to how he wants you to use that gift on a daily basis, right where you are? Even though you don't feel like it, You're going through the motions. You're a little discouraged and you're not super excited about what hand life has dealt you. God's dealt you a gift and he will make way for that gift to see the light of day.

Chris Grainger: 48:21

Amen to that. And how about speak to this real quickly. What was what's on my mind? Comparison robs us often from utilizing that gift, so I would encourage you guys listening I'd love to get your take on this too, rob and how, once you recognize what the gift is that God's given you, how we should be careful and guard it, not to compare that as compared to others around us, because everyone has their own distinct gifts for a reason. So maybe just speak to how that comparison can rob so much joy from us.

Robin Pou: 48:55

Yeah, I mean I mentioned that I had this early business success and so I was happily comparing myself to everybody else, my age and stage because guess what I was winning. Now, recognize that the pool of people that I was comparing myself to was very small, not the entirety of the population, and this was part of my challenge leading up to Kenya is that I felt like I was losing ground because that comparison game I mean you're day trading every single day. Am I ahead? Am I equal?

Chris Grainger: 49:26

Am I behind.

Robin Pou: 49:27

And I just started getting behind and very, very discouraged, which is just a ridiculous exercise because it's not based in truth and the sample size I mean, it's just ridiculous. So I went into that Kenya missions trip not very joyful at all. And so comparison actually robs us of the joy, which is what you're saying. Now, if you're talking about the gift that I have from the Lord as different from the gift that someone else has, why would we ever compare? Because we're all part of the army of God and he's gifted us each individually.

Robin Pou: 50:02

My sister-in-law, when I was 33 years old. She goes oh, this is the Jesus year. And I was like, oh well, what does that mean? Well, that was the year Jesus died and this is your year. And I said well, what does that mean to you? And she goes well, you're an encourager.

Robin Pou: 50:16

I literally had never heard that word encourager Ever since then. For 33 years, I had been told that I was really nice. Well, guess what? Doesn't get you very far in high school, nice. So I literally had been on a journey, like Jonah, to run from my niceness. Nice guys, don't finish first in business. Nice guys, don't get the girls in high school. Because I had this word picture of nice.

Robin Pou: 50:47

She, coincidentally, had known me since high school. She was like Robin, you're an encourager, and she was able to help show me how I had been an encouragement to other people, which is a spiritual gift. It changed everything. So now I don't compare my encouragement to somebody else's you know spiritual gift or whatever gift they've been given, because I'm just trying to figure out what it means that this encouragement is meant to be, which is kind of when you said, hey, how would you encourage them if they've been given, because I'm just trying to figure out what it means that this encouragement is meant to be. Which is kind of when you said, hey, how would you encourage them? Like, I don't know, I can't really encourage them. I really want the Lord to encourage them. Let's do the listening prayer, but while we're listening, then I got a word from the Lord and said okay, let's talk about somebody's gift, because that's encouraging and that's from scripture and that's from the Lord, not from your guest on your episode of your podcast. Don't look to me.

Chris Grainger: 51:39

Amen to that, brother, amen to that. Well, let's take our last break, guys. We'll come back. Have a fun lightning round with Robin before we wrap up today.

Chris Grainger: 51:47

I find it helps me to have a guide at times when I'm reading and studying the Bible. One way that helps me is by using devotionals to guide not only what I read but insights into the scriptures themselves. So we were blessed to become an author on the YouVersion Bible app, and we saw an immediate opportunity to help others with devotionals around the areas that we spend the most time talking about at the Lion Within Us. So if you enjoy the show, you may enjoy these devos as well. We have some guys that are using them as part of their small groups as well, as they're a great way to get conversations going.

Chris Grainger: 52:27

So to see the ones that we've created, head over to thelionwithinus to learn more. So that's thelionwithinus, to get started with your own men's devotional today. So, robin, this has been phenomenal. Just love your insight, love your wisdom. I can definitely see why people come to you for coaching and discernment and encouragement. That definitely is a spiritual gift for you, but we always like to wrap up with a lightning round at the Lions, so just a fun way for our guests, for our listeners, rather to learn about our guests. So if you're willing to play, we'll jump right in.

Robin Pou: 53:01

Let's do it.

Chris Grainger: 53:02

All right. So what do you enjoy doing for fun? You got any hobbies, Well.

Robin Pou: 53:08

I have discovered pickleball. I was kind of late to it and it's all the rage. So ball, I was kind of late to it and it's all the rage. So it's not like unique, but I think it is so much fun and I like being outside, I like being with other people and I like competing, and so that's one thing, and the other one is I've got a little running crew that I run with on Saturday mornings around this lake and here in town. So those would be the two things that jumped to mind.

Chris Grainger: 53:35

There you go, and how far are you guys running on Saturday mornings?

Robin Pou: 53:38

So we've got the loopers, who go all the way around the lake and that's nine miles. And then we have JV, which is six miles, and so JV runs three miles out, ends up meeting the loopers and we run back three miles. Presently I'm in the JJV, which is the junior, junior varsity, which is about three miles. I've got a little bit of a knee issue, so I've made up my own little cohort of one, so we still all drink coffee afterward together and have a good old time.

Chris Grainger: 54:07

Well, that's good, that's good. So if you were to have a superpower, robin, which one would you like to have and how would you use it?

Robin Pou: 54:16

Yeah, x-ray vision, that was quick. Well, god has really given me the ability to see things that aren't readily seen and be able to then encourage people in those circumstances.

Robin Pou: 54:32

Okay, encourage people in those circumstances, and so I just feel like he's reinforced that over time, because I just I'm able to discern things that are not readily on the surface, and so the knowledge is used as encouragement or exhortation. So exhortation is sort of the telling of truth and encouragement. The way I think about that is, exhortation is like a scalpel, and so it can excise the untruth, like cut it out. And then encouragement is the salve on that wound, because it hurts to know that I co-signed a loan and that that was running afoul of you know Proverbs, and so God's excising that untruth but then encouraging me like hey, your heart was in the right place, but the application of that was not the best for Reggie, for you, for your wife, etc. So your heart's in the right place. Encouragement, but the way in which you went about it, cosigning alone is not true.

Chris Grainger: 55:35

Love it, love it. I gave you a fresh box of crayons. Robin, what color are you pulling out?

Robin Pou: 55:43

first I'm going to pull out brown and I'm going to make the trunk of a palm tree, and then I'm going to pull out green and I'm going to make the palm leaves, and it's just. I can draw that really well, I don't know why, and it always just takes me to a beach and water and being on the sand. So I'd pull out brown, which is not even close to my favorite color. So it's such a random, random answer.

Chris Grainger: 56:10

Well, it makes me think of Psalm 1-1, where it talks about walk, standing and sitting in a tree that is planted by the water. So hey, you can go right there, just draw that tree, we'll go Psalm 1-1 and it'd be a win-win for everybody.

Robin Pou: 56:21

So good, so good.

Chris Grainger: 56:23

What about favorite food? What's your go-to?

Robin Pou: 56:27

Yeah, we're here in Dallas, so we love some Mexican foodx-mex and there you go uh, I've got a tortilla chip problem. Um, it's, it's really. You know, acknowledging that you have a problem is, you know, the first step, but we're just, we're great tex-mex fans here, and and big d well, I'm a I'm a runner too, robin, and I run for for mexicans, that's it.

Chris Grainger: 56:50

I mean that's, that's it you know those chips that. That's why I do the 5k about four or five times a week. It's just so I can have as many chips as I want, but you know anyway, when I keep having birthdays. It gets harder and harder, but that's okay. You know what about favorite movie? Any all time favorite movie.

Robin Pou: 57:06

Yeah, I probably have a few, like Shawshank Redemption was coming to mind. Here's a lesser known one. It's called the Power of One and it's actually a book by his name will come to me in a minute. Oh, bryce Courtney, and it's about a young boy in South Africa and Morgan Freeman was in the book, kind of his guide for the kid that was in the book, kind of his guide, uh, for the kid that was in in the movie.

Robin Pou: 57:37

And um, it just hit me at the right time. I was coming of age, you know, 18, 19, 20, when I read it and it just basically said you know, each of us has this opportunity to make an influence. Um, right, where you are in his situation. There was no way he was going to be able to make an influence based where you are In his situation. There was no way he was going to be able to make an influence based on his circumstances. And yet the story unfolds and he's able to make some choices, at some personal sacrifice to himself to actually make an impact. And gosh, I haven't thought about that book in a long time, but of course it completely dovetails into our entire conversation. So you know, maybe God sort of planted these things in me, you know way back when, because you know Peter and the reluctant disciple is wrestling with what God needs him to wrestle with, so that he then can step onto the field for God and lace up his shoes and make an impact for him right where he's planted.

Robin Pou: 58:37

So a little bit of circle of art there. I didn't plan that, but that's such a great question.

Chris Grainger: 58:44

What about? You? Kind of mentioned it a few times. I'm always curious to ask this question, because so many times when people listen to podcasts, they think that the guys that are listening to they have it all together, they've won. They're doing these great in which you are. What are you struggling with right now?

Robin Pou: 58:59

Yeah. So, gosh, such a good question. I can really empathize with listening to a podcast and the guest is coming on and we're supposed to showcase the best of what we, what we're doing. I wrote a on and we're supposed to showcase the best of what we're doing. I wrote a book and we're talking about that and someone's like, oh, I've thought about writing a book, but I haven't, so he's better than me or whatever. Three of my employees quit on me unexpectedly this summer and we have a very small shop and I have no idea why. Through tears, they were saying hey, you know, I've got to leave, I got to go do something else. This isn't about you, this is about me. You know that kind of thing. And it was so dramatic in the sense that all three left within about six weeks that I was like okay, lord, you have my full attention, because if you cause this to happen, or if you allowed this to happen.

Robin Pou: 59:54

You are attempting to tell me something. Was I a bad leader? Am I not running things well? Did I not draw the best out of them? You know, just like all those questions.

Robin Pou: 1:00:06

So I'm struggling with that and let's just pile on. I'm also struggling with my own personal ambition. I'm an entrepreneur, I lead leaders, I work with some very important people, and yet I think God is killing in me my own personal ambition, so that he can work in and through me in ways that I haven't even experienced yet. But I got a lot of old muscle memory on striving and achieving, and I think he's retiring that old wineskin and he's got some new wine and he's not going to pour that new wine into an old wineskin. But I feel really out of sorts in this new wineskin because I've got this old, earthly sort of muscle memory Right.

Robin Pou: 1:00:54

Our third point piling on like this is just real, because how are we going to talk about talking about failures and then not disclose failures, like that would be a completely inauthentic episode, wouldn't it? And so our middle child, our only daughter, just went to college. She's at Auburn. Our oldest is at Texas A&M, and then we've got a sophomore in high school and he just got his license. So we didn't plan on being quasi empty nesters, it just kind of happened.

Robin Pou: 1:01:23

Am I leading my wife, well, am I dating her? Or we've just been doing this for 20 years, like raising these kids, and we're just kind of in this routine Like what is that about? And am I leading this 16 year old well, or am I tired because he's the third one and I'm older? Like, am I being the father and husband that I need to be? God's really convicting me. Okay, pylon, number four.

Robin Pou: 1:01:45

He's been calling me to read Acts since February. I only just, I only just sat down in October and read it, completely disobedient. That the Lord is like I have something for you in Acts and I'm like I don't have time, I'm publishing a book for you, I'm doing podcasts. He's like read Acts, I'm asking you. So I am not coming onto your podcast telling you oh, look at me, I have this pretty book and everything's all put together and I run a leadership development firm. All of those things are true, and yet life sometimes is lived in the gray, not the black and white. So there are my four. What am I struggling with right now? And I'm meaning to say that authentically, but also as a source of encouragement for every single person that's listening to this, because you're either going into a ditch or in a ditch, or you're coming out, and if you will embrace your other fellow guys in fellowship and you share with them and you invite them to share with you their struggles, now we're having real community. That's called church.

Chris Grainger: 1:02:55

Amen, robin, and I will tell you this I've asked every guest I try to ask that question and man and I get some answers. That was the most authentic, just transparent answer to that question. Guys, if you're listening to this right now, I mean you should definitely just be encouraged by the fact that Robin, you know, was brave enough to just open it up his heart and share that. So I thank you for that. I know that was. I can tell when I'm being talked to like this is a podcast versus just hey, we're being real here. So I appreciate that. That's what makes a good show. And look at the last question for you, robin. This has been phenomenal. I don't want it to end, but I know we have to is what do you hope the guys listening remember the most just from our conversation today?

Robin Pou: 1:03:47

what I want them to to know today is that life is hard and you're not alone, but we feel alone, and feelings are real. They just don't always tell us the truth. And God loves you so much that he will allow things to happen to you that look earthly bad, so as to invite you, in the humility of your brokenness, to submit to him out of the choice of your free will. You have to choose, you have to make a mental choice to say I got nothing, and that's my mantra right now. After my employees have left, I was like, lord, I got nothing. Like I have worked so hard to try and make something happen, to get a result, and I have, and yet I can't keep them here. I can't do that Like I got nothing apart from you, and so have your way with me, I will do whatever it is that you ask me to do.

Robin Pou: 1:04:59

Yes, lord, here I am, and I encourage the listeners right now to say is this it? And if the answer is, surely there's more, what we just talked about over the past hour is the more that we're talking about. And if nobody else is going to be authentic and share their failures in the way that we just talked about. You be the person to go first. You bleed first. If not you, who? You can be a leader in your community and you have all the power to display your weakness. And let God work through that weakness, because to him be the glory.

Chris Grainger: 1:05:42

Amen, amen, robin, thank you so much for that word. Point to guys where can they connect with you, get a copy of the book? Where do you want websites, things like that?

Robin Pou: 1:05:53

Please share you get a copy of the book or do you want websites, things like that? Please share. Yeah, absolutely so. The reluctant disciplecom. The reluctant disciplecom is our website for the book. Also, just for me personally, robinpewcom so, r-o-b-i-n-p-o-ucom, and those are the two places on the web that you can find me. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm also on Instagram, so I would welcome a conversation with anybody that feels led to reach out. I'm not selling books. I'm praying over every single book, so that the fact that a book gets into somebody's hands, that's an answered prayer. Short of that, you want me to come to your Bible study. You want me to come to your church. You want me to come to your men's retreat? I am deployed by God. I am employed by God to do whatever it is that he's calling me to do. Just reach out, I'm here.

Chris Grainger: 1:06:47

Amen, robin, amen. Well, guys, we'll put those links in the show notes out there for you, robin. This has been an absolute pleasure. Anything else you'd like to share today?

Robin Pou: 1:06:55

Thank you for doing what you're doing and whatever effort it took for you to step across the threshold, to take your life and put that on the table for this podcast and all these conversations you are sowing into the kingdom. He who can trust you with a little can trust you with a lot. So way to go.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:13

Amen. Thank you so much, Robin, it's been a pleasure. You have a great day sir.

Robin Pou: 1:07:16

You too, thanks for having me.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:20

If you're a man who's looking for greater spiritual guidance into how to become a better leader, finding resources that you can trust and then implement can be daunting. For me personally, I thought it was a lost cause and I decided to take the action, knowing that I wasn't alone. It was because of this wide gap that we created our Lion Within Us community, and the areas that we were helping Christian men grow are incredible. For instance, we've built ways for guys to lean in and grow through fun events like our daily spiritual kickoff, where you get that much-needed boost directly from God's Word. Like our daily spiritual kickoff, where you get that much needed boost directly from God's word. Our Bible studies that always focus on how to discern and apply what we learn. And even our amazing forum where you can speak your mind without fear of getting shut down or judged by the extreme rules of modern day social media. On top of all that, we know that many men won't help overcoming issues and becoming stronger in many different areas. That's why we created several mastermind groups, where the iron truly sharpens iron. Our community is about having a growth mindset, accountability, intentionality and transparency. In other words, just leave fake you at home and come to community, just as you are. I fully believe what we've built. I see the impact it's making on men right now and I would love to have you check it out. So start your very own 30-day free trial today to see how we can help you be a better leader. So if you're ready to take that first step, head over to thelinewithinus and get started.

Chris Grainger: 1:08:51

Your journey begins here. Visit thelinewithinus and I'll see you inside with Den Guys, I told you that was going to be a good one. I'm so encouraged by that. Hopefully that blesses you. I know it blessed me. I want you to keep thinking about how are you using the gifts that God has given you, and I pray that you're leaning into those and you're using those gifts on a regular basis. So come back on Friday. We'll look forward to hanging out with you on a fun Friday episode.

Chris Grainger: 1:09:17

Guys, again, head over to the lion withinus for all our resources. Join the community. Just go ahead and hop in. Join the community right now. Also, you can check out our Bible studies, our different, all our different resources, our live events, our live events. Guys, we have so many ways we're leaning in. We're just being obedient to what God's calling us to do, but the one thing that's missing is you. So I'm just praying that this encourages you. If you find that the Lion Within us is just a really good part of your week, come on in, be part with us. Jump in the community at thelionwithinus. All right, guys, have a great day. Give us a rating and review, hop on, be a donor. All the support matters, all the support helps. Thank you so much. Let us know how we can pray for you and remember to keep unleashing the lion within.