Chris Grainger: 1:22

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, meat episode time. I'm excited to be here with you. Let's get right into it. Okay? So we're in the book of Romans this week, chapter 7, only one verse, verse 24, says what a wretched man I am. Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Guys, it's a powerful scripture.

Chris Grainger: 1:49

Now, look, we unpacked this at length in our spiritual kickoff episode, so if you missed it, go back one in your podcast feed and you'll find it right there at the top. Ok, so there you go. We do the spiritual kickoffs. I'll help you simplify and apply God's word every week, and we do it every day inside our community at the Line Within Us. Okay, so I'm excited, as you can tell, anytime I get a chance to hang out with Pastor Joby Martin, it's a good day. You mark it on a calendar, you circle it, you talk to it with your kids and your wife. I get pumped up about it. I listened to Joby for several years now and he has by far been the most influential person in my spiritual growth in quite a while. I mean, it's just the things I learned from him from 1122 as well, from the deep end and then being able to work with him this third time now. It's been incredible. The growth journey has been incredible. God has definitely anointed him with a special gift and he is stewarding it.

Chris Grainger: 2:44

Well, you know, we were afraid we weren't going to be able to record. He got really sick right before we recorded this. Thankfully he healed up. We had a great conversation. So he's got a new book called Run Over by the Grace Train. We're going to talk about that a little bit in this conversation. You're going to hear him unpack that. Then we just dig in. We go into some different areas. We dig in. We go into some different areas. We talk about pro-life movement, what that looks like, some of the different areas within 1122, how they're making an impact.

Chris Grainger: 3:13

And again, if you haven't listened to the Church of 1122 or Pastor JP Martin or any stuff maybe this is your first episode of the Lion and you just happen to stumble on this one. You found a great place to get started, okay. So again, I highly encourage you to check out the Church of 1122. They have a podcast that comes out once a week and then also the Deepin podcast. That's Deepin D-E-E-P-I-N podcast with Joby Martin that's where they drop the plow Him and Pastor Ryan Britt. They talk about so many different things. There's other guests as well come in and talk in those episodes. There's other guests as well coming in and talking in those episodes, but that's where they really just drop and go. So I'm very going to enjoy this one. This has been a fun one for me. This has been highly so exciting because this is coming out right when the book's going to be released as well. So sit back, enjoy this conversation with my friend, pastor Joby Martin.

Chris Grainger: 4:04

Well, pastor Joby, welcome back to the Line Within Us. How are you doing today? Doing good man, it's good to be here. I know You're the first three-time guest man, so we haven't had anybody on the show three times, but if it comes with you, it's always you have an open invitation, right? Well, great man, I'm glad to be back. Thank you, 100%, 100%. I'm glad that you're feeling better too. I mean, I listen to your sermons. I know you've dealt with some pretty rough sickness there for a while.

Joby Martin: 4:29

Yeah, man, I had a combination of the flu and pneumonia. It's interesting we are finishing up a series on spiritual warfare and since we started that series, three out of the four people in my house have spent time in the hospital, and the enemy was trying to shut my voice. But I will not stop preaching, and even if he took my voice, I would just write it and send it out, right? So I'm going to proclaim the gospel no matter what.

Chris Grainger: 4:58

How great is it, though, with even with that happening, to have guys like Britt, who can just step right in rock and roll. I mean, I've had a chance to interview Britt, too, in the past on this show, and it seems like he just picks it up. Whatever you need him to do, he's right there.

Joby Martin: 5:16

Yeah, pastor Britt's an incredible pastor and preacher and I mean everything he does is awesome. So a big reason why I get to do what I get to do is because of the team that God has surrounded me with. So, um, I get, like, a lot of leaders, a lot of vocal leaders. Uh, I get a lot of credit for all the hard work that a lot of other people actually do. So I love our team and very thankful for all of them, especially best of Brit, amen, amen.

Chris Grainger: 5:43

And also. So this is your third book you wrote with Charles. I had a chance to meet Charles. He was on our show a while back, fun guy. It seems like you guys. I don't know this book. It just flows from the beginning. Is the process getting easier? Working with Charles on that? Just curious how that's working for you on that. Just curious how that's working for you.

Joby Martin: 6:03

Well, what's interesting about this book is, you know, like you said, charles and I write them together. All the content is from me, but he's such an accomplished author. He helps put all the pieces together and he helps take it from the stage to the page. And actually this book was his idea. I mean, he's a deacon and a pastor at our church and so he's here every week and I use the phrase run over by the grace train all the time. And so he texted me one day and he's like dude, that's a great book and what do you think? And in about five minutes I was like dude.

Joby Martin: 6:43

Chapters one and two could be Ephesians two and Romans three. We could establish what grace is, because it's so misunderstood, and the whole rest of the book. We could just talk about where people encountered the grace of Jesus and how it changed everything. So we could do a woman at the well and the woman caught in the act of adultery, and we could look at King David when he's praying God created me a clean heart. And we could talk about Matthew 18 and the parable of the unmerciful servant and forgiveness. We could talk about anger and I threw it back to him in about four minutes and he was like, let's go, those are the chapters, and so that's how that one came together. It was pretty, I don't know divine.

Chris Grainger: 7:20

It sounds like it. So it doesn't sound like anything. Got cut, you just got. This is what we're going to do. We're just going to rock and roll this way.

Joby Martin: 7:26

In fact, some things got added, like we had some things established, and then, as I was preaching through some things, he just said yeah, let's add that to the book, because you know you actually start it over a year ago, like we've got another book coming out. It'll be next year, I guess that we're working on, we're doing edits on the manuscript right now. It's going to be a book on manhood. We'll tell you about that next year.

Chris Grainger: 7:52

That's it. We'll go ahead and book that now. That's it. There you go, guys, get ready, get ready. Now you mentioned the grace train and obviously you talk about this a lot in your sermons. But you know some guys who maybe not follow you or are not familiar with 1122. I'd love to get you know why. Why that train analogy? You know what is it? What does grace mean to you? Just kind of unpack that for the guys I mean grace is truly unmerited favor.

Joby Martin: 8:18

Um dallas willard famously says grace is not anti-effort, it's anti anti-earning. I think grace is really misunderstood in the church today. It is not licensed to do whatever you want, but it is the power to change everything about you. And so the analogy that I would use Chris, if you were late to church and I said, bro, where you been, and you said, man, you're not going to believe this, I got run over by a freight train. I would look at you and go I don't think you did, man, because your glasses aren't even busted up, your hair is fine, you're not bleeding, you've got all your limbs, so it doesn't look like you've encountered something that powerful. And yet you got all these people that say that they've encountered Jesus, which is infinitely more powerful than a freight train, and yet their life isn't changed. So this book is the anti-cheap grace book. This is how grace changes you.

Joby Martin: 9:09

Charles Spurgeon famously would say the grace that doesn't transform you won't save you. And I'm not trying to get people to question their salvation, but I definitely don't want lost people to think they're saved because they just attend church a little bit and know who Jesus is. I don't want lost people to think they're saved because they just attend church a little bit and know who Jesus is, that I want God to rend the heavens and people to experience, taste and see, know the grace of God and then that to fuel them for their whole life to be different.

Chris Grainger: 9:39

You also say in this book a lot, Pastor Joe, in your sermons that there's more grace in Jesus than there is sin in you, and I think that for me as a guy. I was on a phone call this morning with a guy out of Texas and you know he's looking at porn, he's struggling with so much stuff and he's like he just feels condemned. I took him straight to Romans 8.1, you know, because that's what I've learned from you, that's a great verse when guys are feeling that way. But why do you say that?

Joby Martin: 10:02

I mean, why do you think that it's um, it's important for us to remember there's more grace in christ than there is sin in us um, everybody used car run of carfax on that thing and it comes back with a report and it's like man, this car has been busted up, been in a wreck, leaks oil, drift left. Well, god ran a Carfax on you and he knew all that he was getting when he purchased you. And not because of you but because of his great love, because he is love, he decided to pay full price for you and then put his approval on you. We talk about this in the book. When we look at Luke 15, when the prodigal comes home and the dad wraps him in his robe, this is a picture of imputed righteousness. This is 1 John 4.10. This is love. Not that we first love him, but he first loved us and gave his son as the propitiation for our sin. And so propitiation means a payment that satisfies, which means God cannot be dissatisfied in you, because dissatisfaction has to do with surprise or disappointment has to do with I thought you were going to do one thing and now I'm getting something else. And God knew all your sin, past, present and future, and still decided to pay the full price. So it is finished Now, your guy that you're talking to.

Joby Martin: 11:21

Grace is not a license to look at porn, right, it's not free to do what you want. It's freedom from the bondage of sin that that brother is trapped in, right? And so I mean, I see that big lion behind you, man. The devil's like a lion prowling around seeking to destroy. And your boy that you're talking to, I'm telling you, his life is being destroyed and he has to go to war to put that sin to death or it's going to put him to death, and the only way he's going to be able to do this is by the power of the grace of God. Look at the woman caught in the act of adultery, right. Jesus says who condemns you? No one Lord. Neither do I condemn you. It doesn't stop there. Now go leave your life of sin, mm-hmm. And the only way she's going to be able to do that is know that, because of the grace of Jesus, he has placed his approval over her.

Chris Grainger: 12:19

Mm-hmm. You also say that there's a lot of Christians and lots of guys get this mixed up to the effort with the earning, and that just hit me between the eyes. When you, when you hit, when you wrote about it in the book as well as a lot of your sermon, you talk about that. So why do you think we screw that up so much, pastor Joby?

Joby Martin: 12:40

Well, we live in a world that it's all about earning, it's all about performance. And then the verdict Like you don't go to class and they give you an A and say now act like an A student. You go to class and you have to earn your grade or you have to. You know, nobody pays you by grace. You don't show up to work. They're just like oh, we love you so much, here's an annual salary. Now do what you want. No, no, no, you have to earn it. But grace is a gift, a blood-bought grace gift.

Joby Martin: 13:06

One of my favorite pictures of this is in the life of Christ at his baptism. At his baptism, the heavens open up and God, the Father, speaks out loud over his son and says behold my son, in whom I am well pleased. Well, at that point in his life, how much ministry had he done other than other than the incarnation, which is a big deal? He, he hadn't preached the sermon, hadn't walked on water, hadn't changed water to wine. He knows what is god's plan and purpose for his life is. He hasn't done it yet. And before he does anything, god places his pleasure upon his son, especially as men. If we knew that God's a good dad and he really loves you and he is proud to brag on you. It should drive us to then do the kind of things that God has called us to do, not for his approval, because we've already received it through the gospel, but because of his approval. Now we are free to swing for the fences Right.

Chris Grainger: 14:16

Right, and I guess that's you know for me. I was talking to a lot of guys too that are still searching and they mix up that works, the things that they're trying to do to get good enough, to get good enough, to get good enough. And I'm just like, look bro, you're totally missing. It's not about you. You're not going to earn your way in Even just by going to church or reading your Bible and just helping little old ladies across the street, whatever it may be. That's not enough earning. You need that Savior to step in. And even the guy I was meeting this morning, he's been going to church for years. I feel like he missed the gospel. I don't know. Is it just because pastors aren't as direct as you are in presenting it sometimes?

Joby Martin: 14:55

I'm curious on your take here. Yeah, I hope there's not. Well, I mean, there's definitely some false teachers out there, but there's a lot of really good preachers or good-hearted preachers and they really miss the gospel and what they teach is just works-based sin management, right, and it just won't save. I mean chapter 2 of the book we talk about, romans 3, and Paul says for by works of the law, no one will be declared righteous, right, no one. So you can't work your way into this thing. That doesn't mean I mean Ephesians two, that's chapter one. We are saved by grace, through faith, and not by works. But we are saved to good works, Right, and so that's the key is understanding. We're not saved by good works, but we are saved to a particular place in the kingdom, a particular place in the body, where we join together with other brothers and sisters in this war against sin, death and darkness, and we advance the kingdom in light and push back the devil and his minions for sure. But that's not what saves you. Christ on the cross saves you, right.

Chris Grainger: 16:07

That's surrendering, not for me, I don't know about for you, but for me, the guys I talk to, that's the hinge point and that's usually where I lose them. It's like look, all this morning conquerors, all this stuff has come once you surrender, and I feel like there's pews full of dudes on Sunday who missed that. It takes that surrendering to get to the point where you can go and storm the gates of hell and nothing's going to stop us right. But man, that surrendering, I don't know. I don't know if it's because we've watered it down so doggone much, but I don't hear it hitting anywhere near as hard as I hear you and some other pastors out there as well.

Joby Martin: 16:47

Yeah, I mean, you know it's a really dangerous thing to move away from the gospel and ultimately the point of the gospel is so that you would love Jesus. You know, I'm getting ready for a sermon here tonight and I'm thinking about we're in the spiritual warfare series. I'm thinking about we're in the spiritual warfare series. The last thing in the book of Ephesians that Paul asked for the church at Ephesus to do is pray that he would be. After you get suited up with the armor of God, after you take the sword of the spirit. He says pray and pray for each other. And the last thing he asked is and would you please pray for me, and would you please pray that I could speak with boldness the mystery of the gospel? Well, it's very interesting. He asked the church at Ephesus to do that and apparently somewhere along the way, the church of Ephesus quit boldly proclaiming the mystery of the gospel. Because the time you get to Revelation 2, and Jesus writes a letter to the church at ephesus and it's like hey, man, you guys are doing okay, you believe good and you were behaving good. Just got one problem you've abandoned your first love and so I'm going to remove the lampstand from your church, your church is going down because you don't love me anymore. Yeah, I mean the whole point of the gospel, so that we would know that because he first loves us, we get to love him back.

Joby Martin: 18:08

Right, it is not primarily about behavior modification. Right Now, when you love him, though, it doesn't just modify your behavior, it changes everything, right, like the reason that guy's quit looking at porn. It's not even because of all the terrible things that are going to happen. It's not because it's rewiring his brain. It's not because it's creating addictive patterns. It's not even because it's going to either kill his relationships that he has or it's going to set him up for failure for future ones. It's not because it's going to lower his testosterone None of those things. For future ones. It's not because it's going to lower his testosterone None of those things, right. The reason is because Jesus loves him and that he needs to love Jesus first, and if he's put anything else in that first place, then he's not loving Jesus. That's why that's going to be the thing that frees that brother, right, right.

Chris Grainger: 19:01

If you think you know just a what if? Scenario the apostle Paul writing a letter to the church in America. What's he going to be hitting on? What's he going to be hitting on?

Joby Martin: 19:12

Man, I don't know, I think he'd have to write a hundred letters because there's not like a church in America, right, I mean, there's a bunch of them. It would just say you're not a church. I mean there's a bunch of them. It would just say you're not a church, paul, right, I mean, it would be it. It would be like you're not a church, you're a den of Satan, you don't believe the Bible, you're making up your own rules, you're a cult, and I'm talking about some mainline denominational. You know, like to the Methodists, the United Methodists, he'd be like you're not a church, right, so there's that. I think to some churches he would have to say your Savior is not who is in the White House, but the Savior is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Right, that as citizens, we definitely, as believers, we definitely should. We have to be involved in our nation and vote and protect the innocent and, you know, fight for truth for sure. But if you think that the answer to our prayers is a politician as opposed to Jesus, then you're really off base there. Right, that's right, I think. I mean, I wish, I know, I wish I knew what he would write to the church that I get to pastor, cause I would immediately shift gears. He knows that's what's hard man we are.

Joby Martin: 20:31

I'm not one to beat up on churches, uh, because they do things different, you know. They have different methods, cause there's all kinds of different churches and we have a very, you know, creative God. Praise God for all of that, um, but I sure do hope and pray that most of us are just trying to read the word and do what it says, right? I mean, that's what we're trying to do here at 11, 22, you know, and people can criticize us, that's fine, I don't care, I will not. There, not, there will be no popular vote on whether we've been a faithful church or not, right, there will just be an. I will stand before Jesus and have to give an account, and so you know, he's wired me in a certain way and I'm just trying to be faithful, to do what he's called me to do.

Chris Grainger: 21:23

I can only imagine the type of resistance you get. I think that's probably the right word. Pushback emails I can't imagine because I mean, I just know the little platform that I have here at the Lion. You know it's not pretty, you know the stuff that I hear and that's fine. But also I'm just so convicted, joby, where I feel like there's so many churches out there where it's a country club for saints man and it's not the hospital for sinners and it just it flabbergasts and it just floors me on how has it shifted that much Like we make more of, you know, the events within the walls and keeping the people comfortable and doing anything to get outside, and that's why I love 1122 and what you guys are doing, all the different outside ministries, because, man, that's what it's all about. But I just feel like you're definitely a little bit of a diamond in the rough there.

Joby Martin: 22:17

Well, we do not neglect the longtime believer at our church. I mean, the vision of 1122 is that we're not an either-or church. We're a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus. Right, my understanding, though, of the gospels is the number one way for you to deepen your walk with Jesus has helped some other people discover theirs. So I mean, you know, we, we want to make disciples and make disciples to make disciples, but the real evidence of a disciple is that they're making more disciples. Right, I mean when the Great Commission says therefore, go and make disciples.

Joby Martin: 22:50

Nobody thinks that verse means go find some people that already know me and teach them more stuff about me. Everybody thinks that verse means you take this good news of the gospel to the ends of the earth so that people that don't know me know me, and then, as you know me, you continuously deepen that knowledge. Go to, like john, chapter 15 abide me and I'll abide in you. But every time the disciples got in trouble in the gospels, it's because they turned inward. So, like matthew 20, james and john, they're like hey, man, can we sit at your right and left? Jesus is like bro, what are you talking about? The only times they got high-fived is when they were conduits of the grace of God, not cul-de-sacs so like feeding of the 5,000. They go to Jesus. They're like these people are hungry. Jesus says why don't you feed them? And think about this man. Jesus breaks the bread, prays over it, gives them those little fish and says you feed them. And so, by faith, they turn around with one twelfth of five loaves and two fishes and start handing it out. And they're a conduit of the grace of God. So you know the church ought to be.

Joby Martin: 24:03

I think the church ought to be both, and the church ought to be a place where the lost and broken can find a safe harbor to hear that God loves them and that they need to repent of their sin. And then, simultaneously, it ought to be a place where, if you went to Sunday school with Noah, then every single week the Spirit of god can continuously reveal more about who god is through his word and what your place is in the great commission. So I think it's a travesty that people try to divide those things out. Right, right, people ask this question all the time, bro, because I do have to do all these church conferences. People say is the church for church people or lost people? And I'm like you don't have the right answer on the board, my friend.

Joby Martin: 24:44

The church for church people or lost people? And I'm like you don't have the right answer on the board, my friend. The church is for the Lord, it ain't for you. And here's the thing when you begin to understand that the church exists for the glory of God and the advancement of His kingdom, does God like saving lost people? He loves it. Does God like equipping the saints for the work of ministry? He loves it. Does God like equipping the saints for the work of ministry? He loves it. So why are y'all trying to do either? Or when he established the church, to do both ends. So that's what we try to do.

Chris Grainger: 25:13

And I guess maybe what I'm seeing is there is a selection. It seems to be easier to focus inwardly versus the outward approach, trying to bring the lost in.

Joby Martin: 25:28

Yeah, it happens a lot.

Joby Martin: 25:28

I mean, think about it. Every organization grows more complex and more inwardly focused, sure, and more inwardly focused, sure. And the pastors of these churches, man, when they're getting emails and comments, they're only getting it from people that are inside the church, and so they have a tendency to respond to those. It's not like they're getting overwhelmed with emails of lost people going. Man, I wish I knew who Jesus was. Could you all help me? So almost all of the inputs that they're getting are from saints, like disgruntled saints.

Joby Martin: 26:00

Yeah, I mean, think about it. Like when Moses, when he's leading the nation, when he's leading Israel around the desert on the way to the promised land, bro, all he heard was complaining and arguing. And right, that's right. Why? Because church people haven't changed in 4,000 years, bro. I'm just telling you it's the same Right. And so it is my job to keep us focused on the Great Commission and the Great Commandment and figure out what your role is in that, whether you're a stay at home mom or a banker or a politician or a preacher and the. The only way that you'll be fueled up to be able to be in that battle is you better know Jesus and his grace poured out on you 100%.

Chris Grainger: 26:45

Now one of the topics I know lots of churches won't even touch with a 10-foot pole and that's why I love you so much and what you do. On 1122 and this book, you addressed it head on. You talked about Chantel's story and you brought her up and hitting the whole, the current temperature with the LGBTQ plus agenda and all that with the churches. Some churches are just completely missed it. They've got rainbow flags out front and they've got some churches I'm in Southern Baptist, southern Baptist don't even talk about it. I mean, we're not even going to talk, really address this at all for the pulpit. But you hit it right here and I think being silent is just as bad as screwing up the pulpit. But you hit it right here and I think being silent is just as bad as screwing up the message. So why was it important for you in this, in this book, to bring this up and start addressing it so that people like like me can, can, grow um, man, I mean, you know that's a great question.

Joby Martin: 27:33

It's very complex and and complicated. I have one verse that I keep on my desk right here from Galatians, galatians 1.10. Am I now trying to win the approval of men or of God, or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ Right. And so one day I'll stand before Jesus and give an account on what I taught at the church, and we're just going to teach what the Bible teaches. We're going to teach it when it teaches it and we're going to teach what the Bible teaches. And so there's kind of been there's two extremes that churches have taken Many, many churches like the Rainbow Flag churches, which aren't churches anymore.

Joby Martin: 28:15

Like, jesus is not in that church. I mean, look at the church at Laodiceaicea. Right, they had money and they were lukewarm. And the bible says behold, I stand at the door and knock, bro, you don't knock when you're on the inside. Jesus is not on the inside of these churches. So, anyway, so a bunch of people have acquiesced and their god is their current culture, and they have tried to redefine the word of God to fit them, because they stand in authority over the word of God, telling God almighty how he should do things, okay, and they do a whole bunch of hermeneutical gymnastics to try to make the word say what they want it to say. So that's one group.

Joby Martin: 28:55

Then there's some churches that the reason they don't talk about it is because it's hard. And I would just say to you, if you think the Bible is a hindrance to evangelism, you've lost the narrative, bro. Of course, the gospel is offensive and we have all been called to die to ourself and take up our cross, and so we primarily teach through books of the Bible here at 1122. So when we get to the places in the Bible where it talks about sexual immorality, which is any kind of sex outside of marriage and according to the Bible, marriage is between one man and one woman and according to the Bible, we were created as male and female to image God, and so an attack on gender is an attack on the character and nature of God. Now, when I talk about it, I do try to talk about that. We have all fallen in regards to sexual sin, and Christ can save us from all sin. However, the worst thing you can do is look at somebody and lie to them and say now what you're doing is okay, because the enemy only wants to steal, kill and destroy. And so we have many, many, many, many. It's unbelievable to me the number of same sex attracted couples that attend 1122, based on the. You know, I preach the Bible. However, when they know you love them, it's amazing what they'll put up with.

Joby Martin: 30:24

Yeah, and so we are not just a movement for all people just to come here and be a bouquet of broken humanity. That's not what we're called to do. We're to discover and deepen our relationship with Jesus, right, so we just teach the truth of the word of God. And yet I mean, I can't imagine, you know, of all the struggles I've had. That's never been one of them, and I do think the church has mishandled it pretty badly for a long, long, long long time.

Joby Martin: 30:51

And, man, I sure do hope people with all kinds of wicked temptations and broken identities, and especially when it comes to any kind of sexual sin. I hope and pray that our church is always the kind of church that those people are welcome to come meet Jesus and know that he would love them, that he wants them to lay down all of their life and desires for him and follow after him, and I think I would not be loving them. I would be doing those folks a disservice to try to manipulate the Word of God to say something that it just doesn't say. I mean, a fourth grader can read the Bible and come away with one conclusion the sex is for married people, marriage is between a man and a woman, right?

Joby Martin: 31:41

But I'm not going to manipulate it, I'm not going to change it, I'm not going to try to soften it for culture, and that's it. And you know, paul says that I'm not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God unto salvation, right. And so we're going to preach the gospel and we're going to call people to repent of sin. And I don't know if you noticed, but nobody sins anymore, they just struggle. You notice that it's like I have this struggle Like no dude. Porn's not a struggle, it's a sin, it's going to kill you, stop Right.

Chris Grainger: 32:13

Right you think some of it, jovi is is that you have these leaders and be it pastors or beacons, elders, whoever it may be, and they're. They're reading the bible with a pair of scissors pair of scissors and a highlighter, and they're pulling out stuff that they don't want. Highlighting the stuff. Yeah, and is there?

Joby Martin: 32:31

a danger in that well, I don't want to whine and complain, but, man, it's hard. These days, people want to kill you, man. People want to like no and complain, but, man, it's hard. These days, people want to kill you, man, no matter what you say, it's all three little bears. It's all too hot or too cold. Some people think it's just right.

Joby Martin: 32:45

Oftentimes, what happens if you really dig into some pastor that used to believe what the Bible says on sex and sexuality and has shifted gears, there's almost always a very personal reason why they've changed, like they've got a loved one that identifies as gay or struggles with same-sex attraction, and they want that person to feel welcome, and so I I think they might even have the right intentions towards that person to say we're not going to talk about this because I don't want certain people to be ostracized, right, if I you know. For those men that are pastors that I know personally, I would say that what you're doing, though, is you're not trusting God. You're trusting that your plan of preaching is better than his plan of preaching, and I think you should put your trust in him to convict and change, and I don't know why you're bifurcating these two things, like in the book we spent a whole chapter on the woman caught in the act of adultery, and everybody knows this pretty good. But at the very end, when jesus says anyone who hadn't sinned cast the first stone. Well, listen, when it comes to the lgbtq community, the church should take a long hard look at that verse. We should not be throwing stones, right, right, I mean, come on, man, yep, um, I mean we've like made up a whole, like what Jesus talks about, divorce too, but we don't see very many churches hammering against that because it's, you know, be problematic, so anyways. So the church shouldn't be throwing stones.

Joby Martin: 34:27

The older guys drop their rocks first and leave, and then Jesus says who condemns you? She says no one. Neither do I condemn you. All right, so that is true, 100% true. Romans 8, 1,. Therefore, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus Period. Then he says now leave your life of sin. So if you leave out either one of those two, then you are not loving people like Jesus loves people. Then you are not loving people like Jesus loves people.

Joby Martin: 34:57

If you condemn and throw stones and like if you think people are the enemy, bro, then you got to read Ephesians 6. Our battle is not against flesh and blood. The church's battle is not against the LGBT community. They are actually objects of God's grace. They're not enemies for people to throw stones at, and it's really, really hard to win your enemies. It's a lot easier to influence your friends that know that you love them instead of her trying to attack them.

Joby Martin: 35:27

Right, and it is not loving to just tell people they're okay. When we're not okay, nobody's okay. The whole point of the gospel is you're not okay, like. If you're like, well, it's just who I am. Yeah, I get it. You're a wretched, black-hearted sinner like me, and we got to lay it all down and follow Jesus. So, anyway, I'm just trying to lovingly and truthfully proclaim God's word and then just, you know kind of the Spirit of God does what he does and the chips fall where they may. And, you know, hopefully I don't go to prison for it anytime soon, but if that's what it takes, you know you just preach from prison.

Joby Martin: 36:06

There you go, it happens. I mean, we got, you know, a bunch of letters. A bunch of our favorite letters in the New Testament came out of prison, so that obviously can't stop the gospel I just saw her story.

Chris Grainger: 36:18

That was just beautifully done the way you and Charles weave that into that chapter and it just made me think of it from a new context and challenged my thinking as well and just want to say thank you for that. That was really well done.

Joby Martin: 36:35

Well, one of the things I told her early on is that one of the lies that she's going to be told by this world is that she and I can't be friends, and she's going to be told that I don't love her, I hate her, and that's why I'm trying to change her, and so please don't believe that lie. She's doing awesome, man. She's a remarkable young lady and she's truly a young lady. I mean, she's doing awesome, man. She's a remarkable young lady and she's truly a young lady. I mean, she'll tell you I'm a beautiful woman. Now, there you go, because she had bought into this lie that you know that she was supposed to identify a different way, right, yeah, man, she's a trophy of God's grace in his kingdom.

Chris Grainger: 37:12

Well, I think, outside of that chapter, there were two more that I wanted to just touch on. One was the forgiveness chapter. Probably hit me the hardest, that chapter, particularly the debt ledger. I would really love for you to kind of unpack that. I think you even did that in your last sermon. You talked about it a little bit. Well, maybe it was the deep end. You talked about it with Britt a little bit. But that's a scary proposition, joby, if you start asking people to write down a debt ledger and what that means and why is that. Even there's guys who won't even begin to attempt this, but I feel like it's such a big deal, so I'd love to get your insight on it.

Joby Martin: 37:48

Yeah, the church spends a lot of time talking about what you do when you sin.

Joby Martin: 37:52

The church doesn't spend a lot of time talking about what do you do when somebody sins against you. And so Jesus man in Matthew 18, I mean, he's the master teacher, and he not only does he help us understand why we should forgive and the reason that we should forgive is because he has forgiven us of everything and forgiving people, forgive people but then he actually walks through step by step in this parable of the unmerciful servant on what forgiveness is. A lot of reasons Christians don't forgive is they don't understand what forgiveness is. They associate forgiveness with their feelings too much, too much, and a big part of it is they deny the power and importance of the sin that needs to be forgiven. They'll just be like I don't worry about it. Listen, man, forgiveness is not letting people off the hook and forgiveness is not diminishing sin. Sin is a really big deal. Jesus had to die on the cross for sin to be forgiven. And so what the debt ledger is? I mean, jesus kind of goes over it in Matthew 18. You identify the person that has sinned against you. You identify what they have taken for you, because that's what Jesus is saying, that debt. I mean that forgiveness.

Joby Martin: 39:11

When somebody sins against you, it creates a debt-debtor relationship, right? And then you identify here's what you owe me and here's the feelings associated with that. So maybe you haven't been able to forgive your ex-wife, but you try to act like you are over it. Listen, you don't get over this. You get over the flu. It becomes a part of your story. And listen, man, you stood in an altar and I know you weren't perfect, but you stood in an altar and she promised that she would be faithful to you when you were alone and she would be with you until death. Do you part? And she wasn't faithful and she's not with you. And now some other dude's tucking your babies in and it makes you want to go crazy. Well, you're going to go crazy if you don't forgive, because lack of forgiveness over time metastasizes into bitterness and you'll never be able to live the abundant life Christ has for you when you walk around with bitterness.

Joby Martin: 40:02

So identify who sinned against you, what they took from you, what they owe you, and then you have, like a debt ledger Yep. Like you know, if you went to the bank they would say here's what you owe Yep. And then you get to make a decision. What are you going to do with that thing? And I promise you, if you hold on to it, it's going to kill you. But what Christ has done for you is he came up with a debt ledger that was infinitely long and he forgave your debt period at the cross, right, and it cost him everything.

Joby Martin: 40:33

And because of that, then we are to cancel the debt and we don't forgive and forget. We forgive and remember that we forgot. The Bible doesn't say that God forgets our sins. It says that he remembers them no more. These are not the same thing. So, like when Israel's crying out to God, please remember me. It's not like God can't remember their name. He didn't forget them. They're saying pay attention to me. So when God remembers our sin no more, the Bible is saying he pays no attention to it. And so cancel the debt.

Joby Martin: 41:05

And then be reminded that you've canceled the debt because Christ canceled your debt at the cross, not because they deserve it, because you didn't deserve it either. And when the enemy stirs up your emotions and be like, see, you still hate them. Therefore, forgiveness didn't work. Like no, no, no, no, no. I do have these emotions and hopefully, over time my emotions will catch up with this action of canceling the debt. But I distinctly remember burying that debt ledger in my backyard and putting it to death. And they don't owe me that anymore. Yeah, because if the enemy can get you to doubt forgiveness, then it won't be long before you doubt the gospel because you won't believe that God can forgive you. Right, that's Matthew 18. It's not the most watched sermon, not even close, but it is the sermon we send out more than any other piece of content because of the amount of people struggling with unforgiveness.

Chris Grainger: 42:01

Right, because of your point. I mean, you can, I guess, and I think you even talk about this. We're not talking reconciliation all the time, and I think this is maybe this is where people get hung up.

Joby Martin: 42:12

Two different things, two different things. So forgiveness is unilateral Yep, you forgive because unilateral. Yep, you forgive because Christ has forgiven you. It's a unilateral choice, regardless of what they do. Reconciliation takes two people and there has to be confession and repentance. And repentance means I'm going to change the way I think and do. I'm going to change the way I think and do. So forgiveness is not. It does not mean that you have to put yourself back in toxic relationships or dangerous places. No, no, no, no. You do not necessarily have to be reconciled with all people. You know that there are, like I don't know, if somebody hurt my kid, I'm not ever letting that that person around my child anymore. No, no, no, no. But I have to forgive that person, no matter what it was. These are two different things.

Chris Grainger: 43:05

Is it a different level then? Because I'm just curious just personally, I've had some really tough roads serving the local church and things like that. Is that? Have you? Have you just noticed about the people you counsel and the type of work you do? Is it? Is that forgiveness harder when it involves the church directly, or is it?

Joby Martin: 43:26

Yeah, I think so because, but I actually think we, I think our expectations of people that work at church are way too high. Yeah, we, we really idolize people at church in a really unhealthy way. It's not new, it happened in the Bible and I mean there's no doubt people have me on too high of a pedestal. I try to tell them not to. But the problem is is, when you idolize somebody and they let you down because they will, then you will demonize Right. And they let you down because they will, then you will demonize them Right. And so I mean, look, dude, church people are just people, broken, busted up. There's qualifications and they can be disqualified and shouldn't be in that position anymore, but it still just centers in need of a Savior, right, and every single one of us are walking in a Roman seven kind of life where there's a war going on inside of us and and there's some things we do we don't want to do, right. So, yeah, man, I mean I don't know, I'm on the other side of the curtain. You know I work with some wonderful, godly church people there's no doubt about it who are just broken people that are at war against a devil that's trying to kill, steal and destroy, and they've just been rescued by the grace of God too. That's it. So ain't nothing special about us at all.

Joby Martin: 44:55

I mean, the only reason I would say I'm not a hypocrite is because I confess my hypocrisy. Yeah, and so I'm just telling you I do not live up to the sermons I preach. I don't. I don't live up to the ideal that God's standard has for us in the scriptures. I don't. The cross is evidence that I need a Savior. Now I would say I don't think I'm disqualified in regards to the qualifications of an elder in Timothy and Titus, but even then, it's subjective, not quarrelsome. Ugh, I don't know man, maybe I am, you know what?

Chris Grainger: 45:33

I mean, I know, bro, I know. And that takes me to the chapter you wrote on anger, like for me, oh gosh that probably should be a whole book. You know I like I love to hear Joby take over on anger with, like you know, nine chapters.

Joby Martin: 45:47

You know one wasn't enough because that's just one I struggle with well, it's so easy to preach on because all I got to do is just confess and read my own mail. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know the Bible doesn't say don't be angry, it just says be slow to anger. And you got to be angry about the right things. I mean, I got this email. You know, we started this spiritual warfare series in our church and I was talking about this is war. And just because a war is spiritual doesn't mean it's not actual. And I was talking about the, you know, gender confusion. And we live in a culture where people want to mutilate healthy breast tissue. And because a 12 year old kid's confused, what 12 year old kid in confused? Anyway, that is not the answer. This is war, actual war. The most dangerous place to live right now in america is in the womb of your mom.

Joby Martin: 46:34

Anyway, this guy sends me this email. He's like you're just an angry white man and I was like, well, I am white. I mean, look, and here's the thing, I don't know why you would throw that disparagingly. God chose this for me. I'm not ashamed of it, nor am I overly proud of it. I don't know why you could be overly proud of a thing you had nothing to do with. That's right.

Joby Martin: 46:57

So, anyway, and I am a man, I'm actually a man. I know what a man is. You know an adult, human male. I know what a man is called to be by God. I know that you'll never be able to stand up and act like a man, priest and servant king to those put under his authority. So I am a man. And then I told him, yeah, and I'm angry. I am angry at what the enemy is trying to do to us and, politically speaking, they have crossed over into a new line now because they're going after kids. Yeah, I mean, they're going after children, when one of the highlights of the DNC was that they killed 25 babies. We're worshiping the demon Moloch. I cannot stand by and not do anything about it. I'm angry.

Chris Grainger: 47:46

Even to the point I think it was your last sermon. There's a recent one where you talked about was it Amendment 4? There in Florida I did some research and looked at it. I was like you've got to be kidding me, is this? This is just serious.

Joby Martin: 47:58

Amendment 4 in Florida is coming where there's a difference between a law and an amendment too. Man, right, like the next legislature can change the law and amendments really hard to change. And so you can tell it's from the devil, not only by its content, but because of how deceptive it is. The title of the amendment is something like decreasing government intervention in abortion, right? So if I didn't know any better, I want to decrease government in almost every area except for, like borders, roads and military. Everything else Shut up and get out of our way. That's right. And yet this amendment is written in such a way where it will be abortion on demand, for any reason or no reason, not even by doctors, by anybody that you consider your health care provider that it would be up to the point of nine months. So not just late term, but up to the point of birth and children underage children do not need parental consent. That's the amendment.

Joby Martin: 49:04

And so, yeah, I've asked all believers in Florida to link your shield of faith together and protect the most vulnerable. And this is a way that we have to do it 100%. And then, too, when the people, the critics, are like see, here's the thing, they can't criticize us at 11.2, because for two years we've been on this 10-10 life journey where we've been fighting for the dignity of life from womb to tomb Right, that's right. So we foster kids, we adopt kids. We've rescued 21,000 children from poverty in Jesus' name through Compassion International. We 1,000 children from poverty in Jesus' name through Compassion International. We are not just trying to get kids born, to ignore them. We take care of people and families in the least of these at our church Right. So if more churches did that, then maybe more people would listen to us when we say there are no accidental children. There may be accidental parents, but there are no unwanted kids, not by God.

Chris Grainger: 50:00

He wants them all. Well, my buddy Al told me he's like look man. He's like you can't be pro-life if you're not pro-adoption, pro-foster, pro-supply, all the different things that you're doing.

Joby Martin: 50:06

You have to walk it out that whole wound soon, like you're saying 100% and one of my favorite stats about our church right now and we're a big, old church and lots of people come but through our partnership with the Christian Crisis Pregnancy Centers right around here, just from 1122's involvement with volunteers and finances, over 2,100 babies have been born that were going to be aborted in the last two years in Jacksonville, florida. Let's go, that's it, right man. God has saved over 2,000 children. Bro, you know how many preachers and missionaries are going to come out of that, and moms and dads and drug addicts and criminals. But, bro, we don't get to pre-decide whose life is of value based on our circumstances. That's up to God.

Chris Grainger: 51:00

I don't know if you listened or if you connected with Albert Moeller or not, but you know, I know things that he's. I love everything he puts out. He's been talking a lot about IVF. I'd love to get just, you know, your take Like where do you think? Because I don't hear churches talking about that very often? Yeah, at all. He's hitting it head on, making me think. I'd love to get your insight on how should I, as a Christian man, be supportive of this or not be supportive of this? Just some direction here.

Joby Martin: 51:32

Yeah, one of the things I would say is, the further away you are from anything, the simpler the solution seems. So, ideologically, I agree with what Moeller's saying, but we do have like we've had several families in our church that have children through IVF and what I've come to find out. Ok, so some of the premises that he makes I think are absolutely right. You know, we can't be like harvesting babies, we can't be like doing gene selection, to be picking out this kind of over. That's definitely problematic because of basically discarding human life. Okay, I completely agree with all of that. That's very, very problematic. However, there is a clinic here in Jacksonville led by very, very devout Jesus-following believers and they are doing it in a way that does take into account all of those kinds of problems. So, for instance, they only implant the amount of eggs that, if it takes, these parents are going to see to full term, things like that. They're not discarding fertilized eggs, they are, and it costs way more and they're not making near as much money and all of that kind of thing, but they are trying to do this, um, with an eye on how. Is this a way to glorify god? For sure, now you got to be careful of the slippery slope arguments, you know. But what about if people use it for that, like I get it, but I don't know that that's a reason to wholeheartedly throw it out. But I do love and respect Al Mohler all the way. I've had dinner with him several times and here's one of my favorite things about Dr Mohler, so I listen to the briefing pretty much every day.

Joby Martin: 53:37

I listened this morning yeah, but behind closed doors. I thought about it. Yeah, but behind closed doors, in a private meeting, just a couple pastors and him. I asked him how he got into ministry and, come on, man, he's like mega influential, right, sure. And he told me he started telling me this story about the first time he ever taught sunday school at his church, like in his early adulthood years. And that brother broke down into tears remembering his first love, not only of Jesus, but Jesus calling him into ministry. And so I know he comes from a different generation and and, uh, we, we might see some very secondary things differently. Like instance, as soon as we sat down I ordered an old-fashioned yeah, he was like that's what I heard about you 11, 22 or you were drunk. So I was like I don't get drunk, nope, nope, but I'm gonna get an old-fashioned. But it was just even the way he handled that, right, because he's a teetotaler bro, he ain't, I mean yeah I don't think he'll drink a nike.

Joby Martin: 54:40

well, but anyway, that's right.

Joby Martin: 54:42

Um, but I, you know, I like my beer cold and my coffee black and my whiskey neat. But anyway, even just the way he handled that with such winsomeness and it did not in any way deter he and I having a great time together and being brothers and pastors and attacking the enemy together, so I got nothing but respect for him. But I do think, on a very positive note, bringing up concerns about IVF, I think is very important, because I think a lot of people have just kind of with blindfolds and just marched into it because having babies is a good thing and wanting a family is a really good thing, and so there seems to have been some unintended consequences that the church should at least pump the brakes and be like whoa, whoa, whoa. What are we doing about this? The thing that I was happy to see in Jacksonville is that there is a clinic run by believers that are taking those things into account. They're going in eyes wide open. That's awesome, saying yeah, this is a problem, so we're not going to do it that way.

Chris Grainger: 55:49

I just appreciate you just sharing your insights on it. I know by your gratitude list, I know Berber was on it and I'm an old-fashioned man myself, so we got to make that happen one day, pastor Joe. Yeah, I'd love that. The last part of the book, the last thing I really want to get your insight on, was you bring up that story of JP and the car wreck, and I'm so glad you did, because for me it's a reminder that as church goers we got to get to work and we can't just be pew sitters. And I related to football, where you got 22 guys who are out there who desperately need a break, surrounded by 22,000 who need to get some exercise.

Chris Grainger: 56:29

And I feel like that's where church is so much. So I mean, how should guys respond when they hear a story like JP's or they see something needs to be done, and how can they have that JP mindset to do it themselves, instead of stop doggone trying to outsource all the, all the freaking work?

Joby Martin: 56:47

Yeah, man, you just got to go. You know there's not a strategy, you just got to go. I mean, the best advice in the Bible is John 2 5, where Mary says to the servants at the wedding at Cana, when they run out of wine. She's standing there with Jesus and the servants and she looks at the services and says do whatever he tells you to do. So quit praying about it. I'm pro-prayer until it's an excuse for doing. Quit dreaming about it, quit strategizing about it and just go, man. Go, go and make disciples Right, like, do the thing that God's called you to do.

Joby Martin: 57:22

A mentor used to ask me if you could do anything for the glory of God, and you knew it wouldn't fail. What would you do? Okay, the moment you know that, then the next question is then why aren't you doing it? I can tell you why Because you're afraid, man. Yeah, so don't be a wuss, go. The Bible says that God did not give us a spirit of fear. It's demonic. So quit being oppressed by the demonic, quit being afraid, get up and go. And then sometimes people are like what if it doesn't work? Who cares? What if it doesn't? That's not the point. What if it does? You have no idea what hangs in the balance.

Joby Martin: 58:00

There's this account in Acts, chapter three, where Peter and John are going to the temple to pray and the guy, the crippled guy, asks for alms. And you know very famously Peter. He basically says you know silver and gold? Have I none, but what I have I give to you. I mean, what he's saying is, brian, I got the money, I'm in ministry, but in the name of Jesus, get up and walk, but he didn't get up and walk yet. In the name of Jesus, get up and walk, but he didn't get up and walk yet.

Joby Martin: 58:25

The Bible says that Peter reaches out his hand and pulls the man up and then his ankles were strengthened. So faith is acting as if you actually believe. God is who he says he is and he always keeps his promises. I just wonder how many miracles are sitting on the sidewalks because too many Christians are afraid to act as if God can do what he says to do. So just do it, man. Make the phone call, offer the forgiveness, share the gospel, do the thing, write the check, do the thing, quit being a wimp and do what he's called you to do. That's right.

Chris Grainger: 59:07

That's right. That's right. Well, pastor Jovi. So we always do a lightning round, but for this one and to wrap up our show for this one, I talked about this interview with a couple of our guys. Within our line, within this community, you got a lot of loyal followers. We pulled together a couple of fun lightning round questions for you. I think you're going to do a couple of these, man, as we wrap it up. So big shout out to Mitch and Adam. They're my big guys who really give me a lot of these. But look, number one, what's your bench press looking like right now?

Joby Martin: 59:36

Oh man, not about not even close to what it used to be. When I was, I think I was like 31. That's typically about when you peak out in strength, by the way, it's like early to mid 30s, right. So I did a Georgia State certified bench press competition and got and I put up 500 then and now every year I try to make sure I can still get 315. So I'm way below what I was, but you know that's still crank 315. So I'm way below what I was, but you know, that's still cranking, bro.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:08

That's still cranking, that's it? I don't know.

Joby Martin: 1:00:12

I train hard, but I just try not to do anything that hurts All right.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:15

So the next question was does being a Braves fan help you with mastering that FSU chop that you got to start doing now?

Joby Martin: 1:00:23

Man, I've been trying to like FSU. Chop that you got to start doing now. Man, I've been trying to like FSU. We dropped JP off there two weeks ago. Boy, they ain't giving me much to root for.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:29

I mean come on man.

Joby Martin: 1:00:31

They're going to be first in heaven because they're terrible. I mean, first of all, they do not have the right quarterback. I don't know how you can't see that. He was not good at Clemson. He wasn't good at whatever crappy school he went to and he still ain't good. I'm sure he's good. I hope he's a great guy, I hope he loves the Lord. But, bro, he's just out of rhythm and I don't know they got to do something. I just honestly, I mean that guy ain't the guy.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:55

Yeah, yeah.

Joby Martin: 1:01:02

So if they're playing, when they play Georgia, who are you pulling for? Oh God, it's not even close, man. My Bible's written in red and black, so that's it.

Chris Grainger: 1:01:07

That's it. What type of Harley are you riding right now?

Joby Martin: 1:01:10

That was one of the questions 23 Street Glide Special Edition all blacked out.

Chris Grainger: 1:01:16

Nice, bro, nice, I rode a Heritage for a long time. My last one was a Road King, but yeah, big Harley guy.

Joby Martin: 1:01:27

That's the first one I've ever had with, like you, know faring in a radio bro, I'm never going back, never right, never going back.

Chris Grainger: 1:01:32

It's so cool yeah, I went from like the heritage, then I rode like a road king and it's like no, never, not going to have flaring again. I guess I'm just a western out.

Joby Martin: 1:01:41

But, bro, that's the way I do I just like the radio.

Chris Grainger: 1:01:44

I mean, it's incredible yeah right, I mean, I mean jamming some skinner and going down the road to the mountains like yeah you know what's funny, it's amazing how much context changes.

Joby Martin: 1:01:53

I am primarily a country guy. You know what I mean, right, um, like, I mean, you know I like a lot of stuff. But you know and like, oh, not so much like the kind of hip hoppy country stuff today. But I tell you a new artist that I love so much that I've gotten to know a guy named Drew Parker, camouflage cowboy. Download that whole album, bro, okay, all right, he's got. He's got a song where lines in there something like I love Jesus and like whiskey, I mean I love it. So anyway. But so I'm primarily like in my truck, I'm either listening to the podcast or if I listen to music it's country, but when I get on my bike it's classic rock only. Oh, that's it, that's it.

Chris Grainger: 1:02:30

You know, it just doesn't. It just seems right. That's right, that's it, let's go. That's it. Funny how about? Mitch wanted to know all time favorite pastor? And there's only one right answer he just wanted to see what you're going to say.

Joby Martin: 1:02:44

My all-time favorite pastor.

Chris Grainger: 1:02:46

Your all-time favorite pastor, john Piper. All right, you got it. I told him. I said you know it's going to be Piper, bro, he's like still, you got to ask him, so I wanted to know 100%, that's it, that's it.

Joby Martin: 1:02:57

Yeah, I got to meet him and preach with him a few months ago. It was incredible, that's awesome.

Chris Grainger: 1:03:01

I remember you talking about that as well. So how about you know, adam, I want to know how do you keep being a spiritual leader at home, your first priority, because I mean, I know you have so many other things going on, but how do you do that? Keep being that spiritual leader over your home number one?

Joby Martin: 1:03:17

One of the things is I don't love the term spiritual leader at all. I'm just a leader, I'm the head. Everything in my house is my responsibility, got it. So I'm the physical leader, the financial leader, I'm the. You know, that's what headship means. Now, in regards to spiritual leadership, I think the primary way for me has been just through prayer.

Joby Martin: 1:03:36

So, when Gretchen goes to bed at night, I just pray over out loud, try to and pray over my kids out loud, right. You know we've, we've definitely tried a bunch of like Bible study, family devos, things. Those have sometimes gone good, sometimes not so good, right, but I think one of the best ways to go to war on behalf of your family is in prayer. Okay, and by the way, man, if you want to be the spiritual leader of your house, how about this? Be the lead apologizer, be the lead repenter. I don't mean you're the boss, people do what you say. Why don't you go first in what it looks like to be a sinner in need of a Savior?

Chris Grainger: 1:04:13

100%. What did you do? I mean last, really one of the lightning rounds. What did you do different with JP, or are you doing with him and Reagan? Sure they don't live up to that. You know that pastor kid. You know stigma that comes around sometimes. I'm just curious do you guys do anything different there?

Joby Martin: 1:04:33

I mean we just try to let them be normal kids. You know what I mean. I mean it costs them a lot to be my kid, especially in this community. Sure, but one is, we didn't have any kind of expectations on them that were different. Just because I'm the pastor Either way, we didn't expect them to be better or worse than anybody else. You know they're very, very different.

Joby Martin: 1:04:56

So JP is very much an introvert and to himself, and Reagan is very much an extrovert. And Reagan is very much an extrovert whereas you know she loves, like our big student worship events and she's on the leadership team for student ministry, whereas JP would much rather just go one on one with his disciple group leader and spend time that way. So a big part of it. You know the Bible says it used to train up a child in the way he should go. So it's very like you can't mass produce disciples, right, and your children are different human beings. So it's very key to try to cultivate or create an environment where they can cultivate their own relationship with the Lord and there's not this cookie cutter approach that you know because you're my kid. These are the things you can and can't do or have to do, right?

Chris Grainger: 1:05:50

Right, gotcha. Well, thanks for sharing that. And the last one for you Job is what do you hope the guys listening remember the most from this conversation or learn the most from your new book?

Joby Martin: 1:06:04

I hope people experience Jesus. They'll get run over by the grace train. Many people for the first time. They don't know Jesus. They know religion, they know church, but they don't know Jesus. And I pray that you would get crushed by God's grace, because it's the best thing that can ever happen. And for the people that honestly they're kind of like the church at Ephesus man, you've lost your first love and I pray that you would remember the things you did at first. Which was the thing that first drew you to Him was His grace, and so I hope those folks will read this book and really encounter the living God and get run over by the grace train.

Chris Grainger: 1:06:38

Amen, brother, Amen, I mean Joby. Thank you so much again for coming on. Anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up here today, sir?

Joby Martin: 1:06:44

Nah man, thanks for what you do, man. I appreciate it, appreciate all the encouragement.

Chris Grainger: 1:06:48

Absolutely, absolutely. It's been an honor again, hopefully, yeah, excited for this one to come out. Guys, check the show notes out. Oh yeah, do you want to send them anywhere special to get the book or anything?

Joby Martin: 1:07:00

Joby or Amazon.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:01

I'm supposed to say you get.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:02

Well, we'll have a link in the show notes for you listeners out there. So get a copy of it. It's hot off the press. So, pastor Joby, thank you again. So much for your time today. Thank you, bro, appreciate it All. Right, guys, I told you it was going to be a baller episode and it was.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:19

Did not disappoint Joby phenomenal, as always. Go get a copy of his book, okay, I want you guys to go do that. Just released on September 10th, so if you're listening to this, it's already out there. It just went live. I want to make sure you get a copy. It's a good book. It's nine chapters. It's going to be a great resource for you, okay, so just thanks again to Pastor Joby. 1122 for his team. They're just, they're so great to work with guys I know you don't see the back end part of a podcast, but just from his team and coordinating the times and the efforts and they're getting on early to make sure that audio and all that stuff works well. That makes it just so much more pleasant to just come in and be able to sit down and think and just have a conversation like we just had. So thanks, thanks to that 1122 team Again head over to thelinewithinus, for all our resources, guys, all the stuff from Pastor Joby, as well as our community, all the different ways that we serve, that we try to help you grow to be the leader that God tells you to be.

Chris Grainger: 1:08:18

And Joby and I we hammer on this pretty directly, unapologetically, by the way, because we feel like this is so important for Christian men to stand up and start doing the work. So, thelionwithinus, how you can find us over there, be a monthly supporter, monthly donor or, even better, jump in our community of Christian men where we try to serve, come alongside and give you some resources and support to be the leader that God's called you to be. So, rainey's Review, help Fellows. Thank you for all that. Come back on Friday. We're going to have some good fun Friday episode for you, with some tips as well as a book of the week. You know what that's going to be, and that's always some dad jokes. So, guys, get after it, have a great day. Thank you so much again to Pastor Joby Martin for taking the time to come with us and remember time to come with us.

Chris Grainger: 1:09:09

And remember keep unleashing the lion within house cats. Go ahead and skip this message. This is for the lions, because we know that the evil one is coming at you daily, trying to steal, kill and destroy everything in your life. We recognize that you try to face each day with strength, determination and purpose, but even the strongest need a brotherhood behind them. At the Lion Within Us, we created an online Christians-men community where we can grow, connect and strengthen your walk with God. It's more than just a community. It truly is a brotherhood. Be warned, this is not for the faint-hearted. This is where you push your limits, growing stronger in your faith and rising above the ordinary. Here we challenge you to become the leader God intends you to be. The time to act is now and your 30-day free trial is waiting. No excuses, no delays. It's time to step up and join the community. Head over to thelionwithinus. That's thelionwithinus to get started today.